Pergatory

[wittgenstein]

Ghandi was a very spiritual and moral man. However, he was not a Christian. It is my understanding that he went to purgatory (kind of a waiting room) and will eventually make it to heaven. Is my understanding of purgatory correct?

 

[dshix]

No one knows where anyone goes after death. Ghandi may have gone to Heaven, Hell, OR Purgatory.

Based on how people knew him to be a greatly virtuous man, I’d probably guess he went to Heaven or Purgatory, eventually to make it to Heaven.

However, since we are still in the temporal world we can’t really know for sure where someone goes after death, because we do not know if perhaps they gravely sinned just before death.

 

[losh14]

Strictly speaking, if Ghandi went to purgatory he would go to Heaven eventually. Given how difficult it is for a righteous Catholic to bypass purgatory, I’d think it difficult for a righteous pagan to get there faster. But the Lord knows.

 

[Catholic1954]

Ghandi was a very spiritual and moral man. However, he was not a Christian. It is my understanding that he went to purgatory (kind of a waiting room) and will eventually make it to heaven. Is my understanding of purgatory correct?

Purgatory is a place of suffering and purification for sins that are still on one’s soul at the time of death; nothing unclean can enter heaven. Mr. Ghandi may or may not have gone there, only God knows.

 

[katholikos12]

Strictly speaking, if Ghandi went to purgatory he would go to Heaven eventually. Given how difficult it is for a righteous Catholic to bypass purgatory, I’d think it difficult for a righteous pagan to get there faster. But the Lord knows.

How do we know that it is difficult for righteous Catholics to bypass purgatory?

 

[dshix]

How do we know that it is difficult for righteous Catholics to bypass purgatory?

We don’t “know” for a fact, but when you consider the fact that Heaven is inaccessible to anyone who has the slightest stain of sin on their soul, it becomes very likely.

All of us have flaws, and the chances of us being absolutely perfect by death seems… slight, to say the least. Of course, the temporal punishment can also be worked off by good works and indulgences, and doubtless many good Catholics make it straight to Heaven by means of those.

 

[katholikos12]

We don’t “know” for a fact, but when you consider the fact that Heaven is inaccessible to anyone who has the slightest stain of sin on their soul, it becomes very likely.

All of us have flaws, and the chances of us being absolutely perfect by death seems… slight, to say the least. Of course, the temporal punishment can also be worked off by good works and indulgences, and doubtless many good Catholics make it straight to Heaven by means of those.

I’m new here [the Church] so bare with me … what are indulgences? and why do these work off our cleansing in Purgatory? Also where is the scriptural evidence of this found (not purgatory but the works and indulgences for purgatory)?

 

[losh14]

Welcome to the church, katholikos12!

I’m new here [the Church] so bare with me … what are indulgences? and why do these work off our cleansing in Purgatory? Also where is the scriptural evidence of this found (not purgatory but the works and indulgences for purgatory)?

To follow up on your first question, it’s thought (it may not be explicitly stated as such) that only those whose souls are in perfect shape - including those whom we canonize as Saints - are immediately ready for Heaven upon death. The rest of us need to be made ready, the work begun in us by Christ during our lifetimes will be completed. It’s also thought that very few of us die without the merest attachment to sin, even if our sins are confessed there remain those proclivities that are the result of the wounds caused by sin.

The doctrines of Indulgences made sense to me when I considered them as “imitating Christ makes you more Christ-like” but when I see that indulgences are chiefly prayers recited on certain days at certain times will have the effect of xx number of days spent in Purgatory, I can’t really support that notion. Nominally it’s the call to increase holiness through prayer, such as the Our Father, and the study of Scripture (which we call lectio divina) but whether indulgences are necessarily an exclusive list or whether we would consider the recitation of spontaneous prayer, personal prayer, etc as having the same effect as formal prayers I can’t answer.It’s one of the issues that I’ve not resolved after three decades in the Church and just kind of moved on from.

 

[katholikos12]

What do you mean by evangelical Catholic?

I am a non-denomination evangelic Christian convert to Catholicism, which is why I ask.

 

[fred_conty]

I’m new here [the Church] so bare with me … what are indulgences? and why do these work off our cleansing in Purgatory? Also where is the scriptural evidence of this found (not purgatory but the works and indulgences for purgatory)?

What are indulgences?
The time or pain in purgatory may be lessoned thru our prayers, charity, alms giving, we do in our daily life.

The time or pain in purgatory may be even more lessoned thru certain prayers designated indulgenced by the church.

The reason being that if the church can forgive sins, then it can forgive suffering which is lessor than sin itself. And the reason being that there is a treasury of merits of Christ and the saints which the church has the power to dispense, just as she has the power to dispense the sacraments.

So the church has attached a greater merit to some prayers in order to encourage the faithful to say those prayers and bring them closer to Christ.

Every sin, from tiny to huge, we are accountable for and will be accountable for. That means we will pay for it, in this life, or in the next. Everything is written in the book of life.

The church is being very helpful to us in these indulgences to help wipe away the debt, some or all. That is what indulgences do.

Even sins that have been forgiven, there is a residue of payment still due. Sometimes one may have a notion that once a sin is forgiven, that that is the end of it. Not so. There is something remaining, not eternal payment, put some payment. How much we do not know until our judgment at death. But if we pray the indulgenced prayers, especially the full pardon ones, then we will be far more at ease to meet our judgment.

Here is a website of full pardon indulgences.

ourladyswarriors.org/indulge/plenary.htm

There is also a Handbook of Indulgences if you want to know more.

 

[losh14]

How do we know that it is difficult for righteous Catholics to bypass purgatory?

Great question. The only ones who don’t enter Heaven through Purgatory are those who are completely perfect in this life, already entirely sanctified and ready for life in Heaven. It may very well be that we are cleaner and more ready than we think we are, only the Lord knows, but we must assume that the Lord has much work to do in us. Therefore our approach must be one of fear and trembling so that we are without stain or blemish (Phil 2:12-15). We know the wise discern (Pr 16:21), and our attitude must be critical, one of judgment (1 Cor 6:2). As such we assume that we must each spend time in Purgatory being made perfect by the Lord, and do what we can in this life to conform ourselves more to Him.

I don’t so much think of it as a place of suffering but rather of cleansing, which can indeed involve some pain but it’s good pain. Think of the shower before the swimming pool, you may need a good scrub in hot water to be clean enough to enter that pool. Think of an unhealthy man training to be in the best shape of his life, there is much pain but it’s good pain that makes the man healthier, more sound, more in line with what he was created to be by removing the excesses and weaknesses of his former life.

 

[1ke]

Ghandi was a very spiritual and moral man. However, he was not a Christian. It is my understanding that he went to purgatory (kind of a waiting room) and will eventually make it to heaven. Is my understanding of purgatory correct?

No, your understanding of Purgatory is not correct.

It is not a waiting room or second chance place or a place that non-Christians go. We do not know the fate of the unbaptized, we can hope in God’s mercy.

I recommend reading the Catechism section on Purgatory.

 

[Moore11]

How do we know that it is difficult for righteous Catholics to bypass purgatory?

Because we are encouraged to pray all the time for those in purgatory. If it were easy with only a few rouges in it my guess is that the Church would not offer and encourage so many prayers.

 

[bilop]

Ghandi was a very spiritual and moral man. However, he was not a Christian. It is my understanding that he went to purgatory (kind of a waiting room) and will eventually make it to heaven. Is my understanding of purgatory correct?

If Gandhi accepted Jesus Christ and repented of all his sins before he died, he’s in Purgatory or Heaven. If not, he’s in Hell.

We have no way of knowing which.

God Bless

 

[ProdglArchitect]

If Gandhi accepted Jesus Christ and repented of all his sins before he died, he’s in Purgatory or Heaven. If not, he’s in Hell.

We have no way of knowing which.

God Bless

I don’t believe that this is accurate based on what the Church teaches. I’m fairly certain that She teaches that it is possible for non-Christians to enter heaven, it’s just significantly more difficult.

 

[RocketRM]

I don’t believe that this is accurate based on what the Church teaches. I’m fairly certain that She teaches that it is possible for non-Christians to enter heaven, it’s just significantly more difficult.

Yes, the Church does not teach this. A person could be innocently ignorant of the Truth but live a virtuous life. In these cases we entrust them to the mercy of God to be saved.

 

[Kithrus]

“For those actions done in the name of Tash but for the good of others I accept and those done in my name, the name of Aslan done in evil are accepted by Tash.”

For those who read the cs lewis books you know what I’m talking about. For those of you who don’t your missing out.

 

[bilop]

I don’t believe that this is accurate based on what the Church teaches. I’m fairly certain that She teaches that it is possible for non-Christians to enter heaven, it’s just significantly more difficult.

Incorrect. They may no have been Christians on Earth, but they must become Christian, actually Catholic, before they enter Heaven.

John 14:16

Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me.

We don’t know how this conversion happens (maybe during the last moments of life Christ visits these people and gives them a choice?), but we know it must happen.

Look at the OT righteous, the prophets etc. These were holy men and women who followed the revealed law of God. **Not one was admitted to Heaven **until Christ came to preach to them after His death.

God Bless