Perhaps I am too conservative

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thechrismyster said:
i am eating a piece of freshly homemade pumpkin spice cheesecake with the flakiest graham cracker crust. right now and swilling it down with a cup of freshly brewed coffee, lightly sweetened and mixed with a few tablespoons heavy cream and a touch of cinamon and nutmeg.

does that make me a glutton? i’m eating this because i enjoy it. not for nutrition, not for health. for pure unadulterated TASTE. to satisfy my urge to

as shakespeare said, the play IS the thing.
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Yes
 
Hmm, well, I’m a bit curious. If sex is for pleasure, than what is the problem with anal and oral?
 
Nothing, so long as the unitive act takes place with climax happening within the woman.
But that’s a different thread.
 
Everyone’s pretty much hit all the reasons for “why” you still have sex… even after conception is 99.9% improbable.

As far as the lust thing goes… I’ll bet that a very large percentage (probably all) of us would have to honestly admit that we’ve just been plain “horny” a time or two (and we don’t need to go to where that expression derived from) and had a few healthy “lustful” thoughts about our spouses!

Sometimes a “good roll in the hay” with your spouse is just fun. It may start out as a somewhat lustful act by one or the other, but you are as a couple fulfilling physical needs, and being “unitive”… you’re hopefully not going to do anything without consent of a willing partner, or commit marital rape.
I have a hard time believing that couples just don’t have a good romp every once in a while - for whatever reason that initiated it.

As far as sex after menopause is concerned… why do you think God has menopause occur when it does? In a woman’s mid-life?

So that you’ll be too old, weak or out of shape to be able to gluttonize sex… or are committed as a younger person to taking care of yourself - to be ABLE take advantage of the gift of sex (without conception concerns) as a mature person 👍
 
In theory you can say all of life is an endless series of gluttony.
But remember this brother: after God created all things He saw “that it was good”. The flesh is not an enemy but a means to praise God… how to do this? Giving Him thanks and using His gifts well…

When you make love with your beloved you will know that it is one of life’s big wonders that God created because He is good. Its beautiful and bonding.
 
PatienceAndLove said:
Nothing, so long as the unitive act takes place with climax happening within the woman.
But that’s a different thread.
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Remember that it’s not wrong if unintentionally climax happens outside the woman - them’s the joys of our not-always-perfectly-controlled bodies for ya!
 
Where did this poll come from? I don’t know about others but for the vast majority of the time I’m in the 23%. I certainly enjoy sex, find my wife sexy beautiful and cute, but I don’t know when the last time I would call it lust.I would expect 77% might say it was for lust. But that ain’t the RCC and certainly is not CAF.
 
catharina said:
More than anything, I hope you will review your opinion about sex (late in a marriage) with your spiritual director. The notion that sex within a lawful (loving) marriage could be a detriment to holiness is simply at odds with the teaching of the Church.

A couple might chose to become abstinant for any number of good and holy reasons but that is considered to be exceptional behavior and not the norm. Your quote of “a poll that said 77% of sex between married couples is caused by lust” is a far cry from any personal knowledge of acting out lust rather than love within a consecrated marriage. The notion that sex is debasing to a marriage rather than enhancing of its blessings is not an attitude that would be supported in most monastic life.

My prayers for you.

:ehh:
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Just from a purely logical point of view: if there’s even no detriment per se, there’s a lack of the kind of additional holiness that could come from abstaining from sexual relations. So while those marital relations aren’t bad (“marriage is all honourable”), the state of abstinence could be construed as somewhat more predisposing to holiness on some levels.
 
I got a question.
So I recently found out that the Church says its okay to have intecourse when a woman is menopausal. But my mother is a Medical Transcriptionist and has done many reports where 65 year old and up woman who were menopausal have given birth to babies. I just think its crazy that the Church thinks this is okay… you can still get pregnant when you are postmenopausal!!!

When did the Church say this was okay? Recently???
 
Drunken_Master said:
Please have patience with me; I have trouble articulating my thoughts.

I don’t know anymore. I have always viewed sex as, well, a great thing in moderation. I believe sex is a gift from God when it is between two married adults, open to the possibility of children. However, as I ponder more and more on the subject, I begin to think that a lot of sex is somewhat a form of gluttony, mainly sex without the possibility of children. In my view, God created sex for the purpose of pro-creation. That is the main function of the organs. So when those organs can no longer be used for their main purpose, then using them would be gluttony; in the same way that oral or anal sex is. Am I wrong for holding this opinion? Thank you for any help you can give me.
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This is what the Pope said a few years ago:
John Paul II also says that if the only reason a couple is having sex is to transmit life, then they may be in danger of using each other rather than loving each other (see Love & Responsibility p. 233).

Also, John Paul describes the “beatifying experience” of conjugal union as a foretaste of the joys of heaven (see TB, Dec 16, 1981 and Jan 13, 1982). In Love & Responsibility, by his detailed discussion of the husband’s responsibility - out of authentic love for his wife - to see that she achieves sexual climax (see Love & Responsibility pp. 270-278).
 
latinmasslover said:
Actually, anal is still morally wrong (not to mention unsanitary).
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chevalier said:
And oral may be prone to not treating the woman with the full dignity she deserves.
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And in both of those cases, I am going to have to disagree with you. I have an unrepeatable sexual history that includes a lot of things. I have just recently learned to attach love to sex.

However, DH and I enjoy the above activities and nothing is done without the consent of the other. The key to any sexual activity, like the activities above, is that they are done in the context of a marriage, mutual agreement, and respect of the other other person. If you feel that neither activity is respectable and/or undignified, don’t do it. But until the Church comes out and says “Thou shalt not take part in the following sexual activities”, those are decisions to be made by the couple and not on an internet forum.
 
FriendLiiFiRe said:
I got a question.
So I recently found out that the Church says its okay to have intecourse when a woman is menopausal. But my mother is a Medical Transcriptionist and has done many reports where 65 year old and up woman who were menopausal have given birth to babies. I just think its crazy that the Church thinks this is okay… you can still get pregnant when you are postmenopausal!!!

When did the Church say this was okay? Recently???
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Maybe you need to check out what your mother “reported” to you. Women who give birth at age 65 yrs and older are women who are involved in assisted-reproduction technology - of a type that clearly the Church has never approved. The few women who might get pregnant while menopausal are most likely to do so in their late 40s and (far more rarely) in their 50s.
 
FriendLiiFiRe said:
I got a question.
So I recently found out that the Church says its okay to have intecourse when a woman is menopausal. But my mother is a Medical Transcriptionist and has done many reports where 65 year old and up woman who were menopausal have given birth to babies. I just think its crazy that the Church thinks this is okay… you can still get pregnant when you are postmenopausal!!!

When did the Church say this was okay? Recently???
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Um… why wouldn’t it be ok? Should a couple just stop having sex after 30+ years of marriage because the woman is deemed to be past childbearing age? How does that make sense? The couple must always be open to the creation of life. If God gives a 65 year old woman a child, that is His prerogative and we should not be making judgment calls on God’s decisions.
 
And in both of those cases, I am going to have to disagree with you. I have an unrepeatable sexual history that includes a lot of things. I have just recently learned to attach love to sex.
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That’s good news. However, bear in mind that sexual experiences from our past create attachments to those particular acts. We are, in essence, “hooked” on sexual practices that, at one time, were universally understood to be immoral. In an effort to justify this attachment to such activities, we want to believe that anything goes, as long as it all “finishes” according to the rules. It is not so cut and dry.
However, DH and I enjoy the above activities and nothing is done without the consent of the other. The key to any sexual activity, like the activities above, is that they are done in the context of a marriage, mutual agreement, and respect of the other other person. If you feel that neither activity is respectable and/or undignified, don’t do it. But until the Church comes out and says “Thou shalt not take part in the following sexual activities”, those are decisions to be made by the couple and not on an internet forum.
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Just a bit of research would indicate that the Church does not officially condone such acts. Simply consenting to something does not change the objective morality of that thing.

It’s important to provide balance when discussing such topics. Indeed, the CCC does not forbid specific acts and there is lively debate and discussion both for and against the practice of these acts. One should not quickly dismiss tradition and moral history in a rush to embrace the relatively modernistic view of marital relations.
presentationministries.com/brochures/OralSex.asp
catholicplanet.com/CCSE/marriage-sins.htm
ewtn.org/vexperts/showmessage.asp?number=501557&Pg=Forum11&Pgnu=1&recnu=2
 
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