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CyrilSebastian
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Does the Priestly Fraternity of Saint Peter have permanent deacons?
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R_H_Benson
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Mystrx
Guest
Nope. 
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Tarpeian_Rock
Guest
Why? Does the FSSP deny the validity of the restoration of the permanent diaconate? Is there no perceived need for a “service” role in the FSSP, beyond the liturgical functions assigned to permanent deacons in the OF?
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ProVobis
Guest
I don’t know that they ordain deacons other than transitional, but what OF diaconate functions are there other than liturgical? OF implies liturgy. In EF-OF parishes deacons are employed to distribute communion (should use old formula) and serve as deacon or subdeacon to add solemnity to the EF.
Methinks this thread is a setup to attack the 1962 missal, which predates the restoration of the permanent deacon and abolishment of the subdeacon states.
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Psalitte
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Not sure why your post seems to have a bitter attitude towards the FSSP, but, anyway…
…the answer is simple, because the FSSP is a *priestly
- fraternity, the end goal of the men in formation is for the priesthood, thus all their deacons are transitional. I haven’t heard of a case of someone ending their formation with them during the Diaconate period, but I’m sure if it happened, he would remain a Deacon. A Deacon is a Deacon regardless of he ordained in the EF or OF form.
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Deo_Gratias42
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No. Their charism is using the rites as they are according to the 1962 Roman Missal. As such, there is no rites for ordaining permanent deacons. It’s not part of their charism. As the FSSP is a society of apostolic life of pontifical right, they are directly under the authority of the pope, so we can be confident them not having permanent deacons is fine with Rome. FWIW: not all dioceses ordain permanent deacons.
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malphono
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I don’t know for certain, but I would doubt the FSSP has “permanent” deacons in its ranks. Considering that it’s a priestly fraternity and a Society of Apostolic Life, there wouldn’t seem to be any need or reason for it.
One must, I think, also consider that the FSSP is active, and as such staffs parishes. Given that, if a member of the parish (married or not) discerned a call to the diaconate, I can’t imagine that the FSSP would not be supportive. In such a case, it would be interesting (to me, at least) to see what arrangements would be made for diaconal formation.
Now, if it were NOT an active society, things might well be different. In a truly conventual setting (abbey, monastery, friary, etc, even one following 1962 liturgical disciplines) it’s distinctly possible that a professed brother could be ordained a non-transitional deacon.
One must, I think, also consider that the FSSP is active, and as such staffs parishes. Given that, if a member of the parish (married or not) discerned a call to the diaconate, I can’t imagine that the FSSP would not be supportive. In such a case, it would be interesting (to me, at least) to see what arrangements would be made for diaconal formation.
Now, if it were NOT an active society, things might well be different. In a truly conventual setting (abbey, monastery, friary, etc, even one following 1962 liturgical disciplines) it’s distinctly possible that a professed brother could be ordained a non-transitional deacon.
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Usige
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Our local FSSP parish occasionally uses a permanent deacon as the subdeacon for high mass. He is a former seminarian that left seminary between diaconal and priestly ordinations. That being said, he is not a member of the FSSP since it is a priestly fraternity.
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dans0622
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I would be hard-pressed to think of any institute of consecrated life or society of apostolic life that would ever plan on having permanent deacons…and since we are talking about a “priestly fraternity”…
Dan
Dan
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Psalitte
Guest
No, not quite right. It doesn’t matter if a Deacon is ordained with the 1962 books or the 1970 books, if he remains a Deacon, he remains a Deacon. Neither the OF or EF make a distinction of transitional or permanent. Those are just practical labels for administrative purposes. The reason why there are no permanent Deacons, is bacuase the end goal of the FSSP is priests.
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commenter
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There are male religious communities that don’t have priests; there are others that don’t have any brothers; and some that have both. There are some that operate parishes, others that do not; that does not mean any one community rejects the value of priesthood, or brothers, or whatever. It means communities have their own charisms.
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Chatter163
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Wow, that was quite a leap.
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twf
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Exactly. While permanent deacons are common place in the USA, they are not so in most of the world. In fact, I believe nearly half (or was it over half?) of all permanent deacons in the world are in the dioceses of the USA…which accounts for only 5% or so of the Catholic faithful. My own Archdiocese of Vancouver in British Columbia only started ordaining permanent deacons within the last couple years. In the neighbouring diocese in our province, the bishop has made it clear that he will NOT ordain any permanent deacons. It is up to the bishop. Furthermore, I’m pretty sure most religious orders, congregations, and societies of apostolic life don’t have permanent deacons either.
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twf
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Well, yeah. Married men would not be admitted to the seminary, and no separate program for those inspiring to be permanent deacons will be established. If you intent to be a priest and then decide not to be ordained past the diaconate, that is a different matter.
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commenter
Guest
Then that man would be a “permanent” deacon.
I am sure this doesn’t happen often, but is anyone aware of local situations where it did happen?
If a man in that situation wanted to function as a permanent deacon, either the bishop would have to make an exception, or more likely he would need to apply to a nearby diocese that does utilize this ministry. He would still be a deacon, in any event.
I wonder why some bishops are reluctant? I guess in some cases they don’t feel they can afford to invest in an extensive training program, for what they feel will be a very part time ministry. Or maybe they feel this ministry is confusing to the laity - that is, there is ambiguity over priest/lay roles already. I know of at least one bishop, now deceased, who was angry that women could not be deacons, so he would not ordain any new ones. There could be other reasons, and I respect the local ordinary who chooses not to utilize deacons.
What is the current policy on celibacy? My understanding is that deacons cannot (re)marry once they are ordained, but exceptions can now be made for widowed fathers who have young children. Is that still the case?
I work alongside deacons in 3 places: our K of C council, a mission in the inner city, and a new high school in the Catholic Tradition. I am deeply grateful and blessed by their ministry and sanctity.
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malphono
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Perhaps it has, but the only cases I’ve encountered are where an ordained (transitional) deacon decides not to proceed to priestly ordination for whatever reason and petitions to be released from the clerical state.
This is a very ancient practice in the Eastern and Oriental Churches for married priests. That said, while I know of the practice, I’ve never heard of a case where it was used. It’s likely due to the fact that married men are ordained later in life than celibates, so the chance of their being widowed with very young children is summarily reduced. The same principle, I think, would apply to non-transitional deacons in the Latin Church.
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twf
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I think for some it is a fear that it will cut out some of the women who hold lay ministerial positions in parishes. Deacon Bill starts distributing communion so EMHC Glenda has to sit down…Glenda may protest this. (Yes this happens). Deacon Bill starts bringing communion to the sick, so EMHC Susan, who has been doing it for years, is hurt. There could be a thousand other examples.
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malphono
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That’s actually very funny.
But levity aside, it really depends on the parish, I think, more than on the diocese. For example, I know of one parish (in a Latin diocese), where there are several non-transitional deacons, but there are more EMHCs, mainly female, than one can shake a stick at. The interesting thing is that the young pastor of this particular parish is very traditional, (he even prefers the Usus Antiquior), but apparently doesn’t want to ruffle any feathers. I suspect that the presence of the deacons is inconsequential. It’s a fairly sizable parish but with the deacons and so many (unnecessary) EMHCs, communion is done rather quickly and Mass rarely last more than 45 minutes.
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