Permanent Diaconate - Personal Quandry

  • Thread starter Thread starter Cohibas
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
C

Cohibas

Guest
I am 42, the father of three (15, 13, 3), married and very active in my Church (CCD teacher, Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion, Parish Newsletter writer, Parish Ambassador). I am a 4th degree Knight and I am on the Board of Governors of the St. Thomas More Society. I have prayed and prayed for the return of the Permanent Diaconate after a 20+ year absence from our Diocese. We have a relatively new Bishop and he has reinstituted the Permanent Diaconate Formation Program in our Diocese! Now that it has returned, I have been experiencing nothing but pangs of excitement and fear at the same time! I attended the intro. session last Friday, but I am not sure if I should go forward. I have a very strong feeling that I am being called to the Diaconate, but I am concerned about my family. My first “marriage” was annuled and I have been currently married for almost 7 years. My wife is very supportive of me going forward, but she recognizes my concerns. I have my boys (15 & 13) every other weekend. We are extremely active together enjoying a lot of golf and I coach their hockey teams. (Regardless of my decision, my coaching will end after this season is over.) My concern is that my classes will be almost every Saturday during the regular school year, along with service projects, retreats, etc. over the summer months. Here’s the dilemma. The Bishop indicated that they are accepting only 30 men and that there originally were no current plans for any further formation classes in future years. Given everyone’s surprise and actual shock at the number of men who showed up for the three info. sessions, the Bishop commented that they may decide to have additional formation groups in the future, but he could not give any guarantees. I was considering holding off until my boys are just about through high school, but my fear is that if I do not apply now, I may not have the opportunity in the future. My Saturday classes would obviously make it impossible for me to have my boys every other weekend (perhaps only every other Sunday), and I would not be there for them to go golfing together, to attend their hockey games (most are on Saturdays), and to just be with them.
Coupled with this concern is whether the Diocese would automatically count me out of consideration as a result of my annulment. Although that would seem to fly in the face of the true meaning of an annulment ( a sacramental marriage never occurred), as between me and another applicant I can see that being held against me.
Any words of wisdom, suggestions, things to consider, your experiences, etc.? Thanks to all of you in advance!
 
I’m in training for the Diaconate myself. And one of the key take aways is that the Diaconate cannot come between you and your family.

What you describe sounds like it would severly impact your relationship with your sons. How deeply have you talked about it with them.

Do they understand the commitment your would make, what kind of sense do you have on if they would come to resent you training for the diaconate?

Those are some big things to consider.
 
As Brendan noted, the diaconate is a family thing. There are a couple of things to consider. First, God never calls us to become something we cannot be. Therefore, if you are called to the diaconate it will happen if you let it.

Speak with your boys. Explain the problem you face. Also understand that once you are ordained you are no longer your own man. Deacons “belong” to the bishop and we serve at his pleasure and at his direction. Yes, “family first” is a really good statement and claim – and it’s frequently impossible to honor. Diaconate and family require a balancing act; making sure that neither takes over and that neither is neglected.

As I read your note, however, something concerned me. Perhaps it’s just the way I read it, but there seems to be a lot of “I” in there. Of course, it’s only natural that you would want to be there for your boys, so perhaps I’m reading into this what is not there.

As for the annulment, that’s a non-issue as long as your legal obligations are being met.

Pray, discuss with your family, and find a spiritual director who can help you.

Deacon Ed
 
I thought this is why deacons are supposed to be done raising your families before becoming a deacon. It sounds to me like you have another 15 years to go. It also sounds like you’re doing plenty already.

What exactly is the POINT of the permanent diaconate, anyway?
 
Deacon Ed:
As Brendan noted, the diaconate is a family thing. There are a couple of things to consider.** First, God never calls us to become something we cannot be. **Therefore, if you are called to the diaconate it will happen if you let it.

Speak with your boys. Explain the problem you face. Also understand that once you are ordained you are no longer your own man. Deacons “belong” to the bishop and we serve at his pleasure and at his direction. Yes, “family first” is a really good statement and claim – and it’s frequently impossible to honor. Diaconate and family require a balancing act; making sure that neither takes over and that neither is neglected.

As I read your note, however, something concerned me. Perhaps it’s just the way I read it, but there seems to be a lot of “I” in there. Of course, it’s only natural that you would want to be there for your boys, so perhaps I’m reading into this what is not there.

As for the annulment, that’s a non-issue as long as your legal obligations are being met.

Pray, discuss with your family, and find a spiritual director who can help you.

Deacon Ed
Click to expand...
I fully agree. I also strongly believe that many men are ordained who never had a calling…
 
40.png
5-Decades-a-Day:
I thought this is why deacons are supposed to be done raising your families before becoming a deacon. It sounds to me like you have another 15 years to go. It also sounds like you’re doing plenty already.

What exactly is the POINT of the permanent diaconate, anyway?
Click to expand...
When it really comes down to it, I only see two real reasons – so married men may be ordained in the Latin Rite, and to preserve a wonderful tradition.

There aren’t too many permanent deacons out there that are unmarried. While it’s true that some men may be called to be unmarried deacons, it’s certainly not all that common – they’re six months away from being ordained a priests.

With the laity taking over more and more functions that were once reserved for the ordained (Holy Communion to those unable to attend Mass, etc.) the ordination of deacons has less and less practical value.
 
Dear Cohibas (the cigars? 😉 )

I want to quickly relate two stories of men who feel the call the be deacons in my parish.

The first is like you. Up to his eyeballs in responsibilities, etc. He was accepted to the formation, but quietly stepped-back because he could see that now was not his time. This man is a wonderful man, and the fact that he was accepted really showed the Holy Spirit in action to me.

The second man has positioned himself as an “uber-acolyte” in the parish for years. At the most crowded Masses he acted as both an altar server and an EMHC. He positioned his chair next to the priest in the deacon’s position, and claimed the bishop had instituted him as an acolyte (which was untrue.) He prepared the chalice for the priest just like a deacon would, etc. etc. etc.

When the first formation for deacons began a few years ago he was rejected. It stunned me! Talk about HOLY GHOST POWER! I was truly taken aback. Unfortunately through political manuevering he was allowed into the formation where his wife (our parish’s “liturgy coordinator” completes all his homework.)

I guess my point is that some day, *man #1 will make an *awesome deacon at the right time. The second man will be the same challanged individual he is today even when he is ordained.

Hang in there, continue to pray and see if you can’t get pre-qualified for an upcoming formation in a few years…
 
When I entered my deacon formation years, my children were young, I had my own construction business, I was involved in so many things in our parish and community too…iMany of the men in our class could have been your twin brother. In fact one of the men in our class had babies at home. The amazing thing that opened up for us was a wealth of people who helped us balance our time, our family, our studies because God had called us to this vocation. And it miraculously all worked out. The weekends, the classroom studies, the outside work at hospital ministry, sharing parish, internship etc…all worked.

Consider getting a spiritual director to help you discern this obvious calling. If God is calling you, it will never stop until you are ordained and you will feel the real presence of peace since you heeded the call. You will remain in my prayers! Never stop praying!
 
Thanks to everyone who responded so far! You all have given me more “food for thought”. I am a bit concerned about what appears to be “AltarMan’s” misunderstanding of the theology behind the sacrament of ordination as it relates to ordained Permanent Deacons. It is very, very different that the role of lay ministers and it represents a typical lay person’s blurring of the lines between the two. I have run into that already over the past fews years myself as I have begun to discern a calling to the Diaconate. I am sure that the ordained Deacons here can explain their personal experiences with this issue. As for Deacon Ed, I fully appreciated all of your insights and thank you for the same! I was a bit taken back by the suggestion that there was a lot of “I” in my post, especially coming from an ordained Deacon. Does CCD teacher, EMHC, youth sports coach, member of the Knights of Columbus, parish newsletter writer and my concern for the effect my time away for diaconate studies and functions would have on my boys really sound like “I” to you? Perhaps I simply misunderstood your point and if I did I certainly apologize. If my post did come across as sounding like “I”, it certainly was never intended that way. I am only looking for guidance on how to handle waht I truly believe is a call to the diaconate so as not to adversely affect my family to an unreasonable extent (as I fully recognize that there necessarily will be a certain level of negative impact upon anyone’s family who goes through such a formation program, at least in the sense of time away from the family. I know this already as I have been enrolled in my Diocese’s Pastoral Ministry Program for the past couple of years. In fact, it is many priests and Program coordinators who have approached me about the Permanent Diaconate without me saying a word to them first. This is in addition to my Pastor and my daughter’s Godfather who is a well-respected and VERY well known priest nationally.)
 
I am married with two grown up children and work as a full time secondary school teacher. I am also in the second year of formation for the permanent diaconate in Scotland. I would suggest the any man considering this particular vocation should pray about it and be very honest with the Director for the diaconate and the Bishop in his Diocese. I would also add a word of caution about asking people for their opinions because they may find difficulty in giving an objective view. Especially since, they might know very little about you or your circumstances. Further, they might also have very little understanding about the history or nature of this ministry. Remember it is your vocation no one else’s.
 
Cohibas –
I was touched by your posting. I was blessed to be ordained to the diaconate last year. Like you, I was active in my parish, a Knight (3rd Degree), and – I have had an annulment. (Don’t smoke Cohibas, though.)

Let me quickly touch on several of your issues. My understanding is that annulments as disqualifiers for diaconate is a diocese-to-diocese thing. 3 men in my formation class had annulments. I was told that in another diocese in my state, an annulment would have disqualified me from consideration. So you need to explore that.

In our diocese, the 4 years of classes are weeknights, so that eased up on weekend family issues. But: I was struck by you focus on your 2 older boys. I’d urge you to also think of your 3-year-old. As you must know by now, there is no remarriage after ordination should a deacon’s wife pass away. Young children are a major disqualifier for selection in our area. Several guys who came close were urged to consider applying at another time because they had kids in the 10 – 15 age range. My youngest was a high school freshman during my application process, (and thus would be a college freshman at time of ordination) and a team of deacons came to our home and interviewed her in private for an extended time, and that was one of their topics. Your older boys have special needs due to your prior “marriage,” and your 3-year-old has years and years of needing his/her Dad around. By the time I began formation classes, my youngest was equally buried in schoolwork – in fact, we often did homework together in the dining room. Night and weekend obligations are undertaken much more easily as an “empty nester” – with, of course, your wife’s understanding and support, prayerfully grown during the years of aspirancy and candidacy. Our bishop and diaconate director kept stressing the priorities: family, job, THEN diaconate; of course, in practice, it frequently doesn’t work out that way, and we all knew it.

6 years before I finally applied, I attended information sessions in our diocese. After much prayer and discussion with my wife, I decided to wait and “catch another train.” It was absolutely the right decision. Unfortunately, your bishop seems to have a “one and done” approach to restoring diaconate formation. In my case, we have new diaconate formation classes every 4 years, so I knew there WOULD be “another train.” You should consider reaching out to clergy in your diocese and see if, in fact, future formation classes are possible / probable.

In the last 60 hours, I have: assisted at Liturgy; conducted Baptism; taught RCIA; done pre-marital counseling; planned a Generations of Faith event. In the next 48 hours I will attend a parish committee meeting, rehearse a Generations of Faith event, and teach a class of our new diaconal aspirants. I’m also still working full-time; not retired (yet). It’s all by grace, and I recite this not as any reflection on me, but on the varied responsibilities – and demands - of diakonia. My own experience of being a deacon has been blessing upon blessing, and I have received immeasurably more than I have had to give.

I will pray for you and your decision-making process, my brother.
 
I have been ordained for almost twenty years and am only 54. It is not true that one should be done raising their children before becoming a deacon. Why would the minimum age for a married man be 35 years old? No one is done raising their children by then. Recent guidelines, in fact, anticipate that the norm for deacons would be to be ordained in their thirties.

The annulment question is a diocese-by-diocese issue. The current trend is away from ordaining men who have gone through an annulment but many dioceses, mine included, accept men in that situation.

You have to be prepared to give up your other church involvements and extra-curricular activites.
 
Cohibas,

Never fear, Bishop Rhoades did state that he intends to begin another class after this class is ordained. He even suggested that if he can muster the resources, he will begin an interim class.

I just can’t believe that between the three information sessions, nearly 300 men had expressed interest in becomming a permanent deacon. The comittee will surely have wonderful men to choose from. I guess this just goes to show that the Holy Spirit is indeed working in the Diocese of Harrisburg.

I myself am just stressed out attempting to complete the enormous application package (5 letters of recommendation, 28 page application, 3-5 page essay, 5-8 page autobiography, 3 passport photos, copy of passport, full Psych exam, full medical exam, all sacramental records, all education records and transcripts, 13 short essays, military records, recommendation from pastor…) my head is spinning!

We just have to trust that the Holy Spirit is working in us and our Bishop. I can only hope that Bishop will be in the diocese long enough to see the fruits of his labor (and start the next class of deacons, I don’t think 30 deacons is enough for a diocese of 91 parishes). I can see him moving on to bigger and better things in the near future.

Keep praying and keep you chin up!
 
40.png
Cohibas:
As for Deacon Ed, I fully appreciated all of your insights and thank you for the same! I was a bit taken back by the suggestion that there was a lot of “I” in my post, especially coming from an ordained Deacon. Does CCD teacher, EMHC, youth sports coach, member of the Knights of Columbus, parish newsletter writer and my concern for the effect my time away for diaconate studies and functions would have on my boys really sound like “I” to you? Perhaps I simply misunderstood your point and if I did I certainly apologize. If my post did come across as sounding like “I”, it certainly was never intended that way. I am only looking for guidance on how to handle waht I truly believe is a call to the diaconate so as not to adversely affect my family to an unreasonable extent (as I fully recognize that there necessarily will be a certain level of negative impact upon anyone’s family who goes through such a formation program, at least in the sense of time away from the family. I know this already as I have been enrolled in my Diocese’s Pastoral Ministry Program for the past couple of years. In fact, it is many priests and Program coordinators who have approached me about the Permanent Diaconate without me saying a word to them first. This is in addition to my Pastor and my daughter’s Godfather who is a well-respected and VERY well known priest nationally.)
Click to expand...
When I said there was an “I” in your post it was in reference to what you did – and in reference to what you would miss if you entered into formation. As a spiritual director this is frequently a tip-off that there is more at work here than seems obvious on the surface.

Now, perhaps I read more into that than you intended (often possible when one cannot see the body language) and, if so, I apologize.

The fact that others have approached you as a possible deacon is wonderful. At the same time, I remind you that when Abram received his call from God he had to give up everything and go to a strange land. God’s call always involves sacrifice.

Remember that getting into the formation process is not a guarantee of ordination. The whole formation process is also one of discernment: both on your part and on the part of the formation team.

Deacon Ed
 
Concentrate on raising your kids. Your kids need a daddy more than the Church needs another Deacon.
 
Dr. Bombay:
Concentrate on raising your kids. Your kids need a daddy more than the Church needs another Deacon.
Click to expand...
I do not think it is necessarily an either/or question here.

Why can not one be a good father and be a Deacon, or in the case of the Eastern Catholic Churches, a Priest?

Do not tell me that it takes to much to be a Deacon (or Priest) and you can’t have a family too, because if you do then you must then agree that one can not be a doctor and a parent, or any of many other professions that take a lot.
 
40.png
ByzCath:
I do not think it is necessarily an either/or question here.

Why can not one be a good father and be a Deacon, or in the case of the Eastern Catholic Churches, a Priest?

Do not tell me that it takes to much to be a Deacon (or Priest) and you can’t have a family too, because if you do then you must then agree that one can not be a doctor and a parent, or any of many other professions that take a lot.
Click to expand...
Just basing my response on what the OP said, David. He seemed to indicate his studies for the diaconate would cut into the time he spends with his family.

He can study for the diaconate later. His kids are only kids once.
 
Our fifth child was born in my first year of formation. Our sixth was born almost two years after ordination. My children, perhaps because they were young, thought the whole thing was wonderful – they still do as adults and one near-adult. However, I’ve seen men with teenagers have a difficulty because their children weren’t as thrilled with the extra attention their dad’s public position attracted.

With this I would heartily agree: Be very, very careful if your children are teens. Believe me, you’ll have to miss games and activities. From what I know about formation programs, there is very little you could be excused from for anything but the most serious of reasons. My wife and I attended class on her due date – with suitcase packed – and a plan to go to a different, closer hospital just in case.
 
You guys are awesome! I am so very glad that I posted this thread because I have now rec’d all of your collective experience, wisdom, insights, cautions, points to ponder, etc.! I had been looking at it as though by the time I would complete the formation program (if God willing I were accepted of course), my oldest would be in college, the second would be a senior in high school, and our daughter would be in first or second grade. But I realize that I must also think about the time my kids, my wife and I will miss together over these next four years. I will continue to think about the issues all of you have raised and I will pray and continue to discuss this with my wife, my close friends and my Pastor. Lurch is correct in the sense that our Bishop did mention in response to a question during our info. session that due to the unanticipated size of the turnouts he and the panel will now need to consider whether they will have more formation programs and he began “thinking out loud” as to the possibilities. However, my recollection was that he was very careful to stress more than once that the plan is currently only for 30 men to be accepted. He understandably was not in a position to give any guarantees about the future. Lurch, continue to pray for guidance in the preparation of your application. Try not to be “stressed out” about the process as this should be a time of great joy knowing that you are expressing your humble desire to respond to a call that you feel to serve our faithful! The Holy Spirit has gotten you this far. Trust in him and he will take you as far as you are meant to go! God bless all of you!
 
The FIRST vocation is marriage! There has already been one annulment and the children are living with the results of that and the shared parenting. You are young. Raise those teens; they are owed that much of their father.

I know of men called to the holy priesthood who have had to put off that vocation because of elderly parents, etc. The current obligations are primary and therin lies God’s will for you at this present time.

Ave Maria!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top