K
Katie966
Guest
OP- my advice is do the opposite of this.
Please, seek a spouse who doesn’t need to try you out sexually before marrying you.
It’s worth keeping your standards high.
- Status
Please, seek a spouse who doesn’t need to try you out sexually before marrying you.
It’s worth keeping your standards high.
N
ndeparis88
Guest
So basically if your current boyfriend was horrible at it you wouldn’t be with him? That’s horrendously shallow. What if after marriage he gets better, it could happen you don’t know. Your letting how much satisfaction you have determine how you feel. It doesn’t matter if he’s an honest man, loyal and a good provider though right, or how much he loves you. If the sex was horrible he must not be much of a man right. Did you ever think that your previous boyfriend was horrible a it because he just wasn’t attracted to you as much as you thought he was?
S
samiam1611
Guest
Oh he’s definitely attracted to me. My feelings for him weren’t that strong but he liked me so much I thought I’d give him a try. He still wants to be with me but I’m kinda like eh.
It’s not really about being shallow - it’s not about my pleasure. It’s about ensuring that this is the right person for me in every way. Just bc someone is an awesome person, loyal, honest etc, doesn’t mean I would be happy being with only them for the rest of my life. Those things matter, yes, but if the sex isn’t good, they’re not “the one” for me. I could settle with it not being the best in the world, but it’s gotta be decent at least. Mind you, my bf has some flaws that bother me to the point that I am not sure/doubtful we will marry, so maybe once I meet someone who DOES have an A+ personality, the quality of the sex won’t be so crucial to me. In fact, I worry that I am wasting my time with someone who is not right for me just bc the sex feels so right. Understand though, when I say “feels right,” I don’t quite mean “gives me so much pleasure.” Having sex releases a hormone called oxytocin that facilitates “pair bonding” and I treasure the closeness I feel when we’re together.
Problem is, I fear that he’s raised the bar too high - if I ever do meet someone with a better personality but not as good at sex, I might dismiss them before I fall in love with them. I’m still really good friends with the other guy though, so if it’s meant to be, it could still happen.
OP, you’re lucky you’re a guy! I bet there’s a lot more girls out there willing to wait than guys willing to wait. That’s how it seems to me anyway - guys have more lust/don’t have that emotional attachment that girls want before they’ll sleep with a guy. It’s hard for me to imagine a girl being very aggressive about doing it, breaking up with a guy who wouldn’t do it. Then again, you’ll have to be very clear with her that you want to, bc if it were me, I think that would damage my self-esteem being like, why doesn’t he want to sleep with me, am I ugly or fat or something? You have to make her feel desired.
I think you should wait as long as you want…except before it’s too late to change your mind (preferably before you start putting deposits down for the chapel and catering and stuff.) Better to sin a couple of times before marriage than it is to get a divorce bc you’re not compatible. Everyone sins every now and then, right? Don’t plan it ahead or anything, that will make your confession kind of empty. Do it once, repent, then go from there as you see fit. If it’s great, you don’t have to do it again till your wedding night, and this way, you’ve only sinned the one time. Plus, it’s not about lust - it’s about doing what’s best for you and her.
I hope you guys don’t mind me being so blunt. Just want the OP to get a spectrum of answers.
K
karow
Guest
It won’t, but even if it did there is nothing wrong with the single vocation. Never fear.
B
Brywan
Guest
I’m speechless…
B
Beth_Cecilia
Guest
The idea that you can give a parter a test drive is demeaning at best. And that is essentially what you are advocating here. Just from the perspective of practicality that you seem to be aiming for, what if the guy has an off night. Or you do. Or both.
In a marital relationship there is trust between the parters that cannot be present before marriage. (It can obviously be absent in a marriage, but then you have issues other than sex to work through.) Sex reinforces the relationship. Many people who had sex with their parters before marriage report that the sex is better after marriage- which makes sense. If you can immerse yourself fully in the act, you do not have to worry if he will be there tomorrow or next week, you can be emotionally vested in a way which is not rational before marriage. You can give yourself fully to your partner- physically, emotionally, spiritually- and you do not have to hold back.
A person can be adept at certain specifics of sex which might make someone call him a good parter. Most of that can be learned, though. And it can be exciting for a couple to learn together. Good sex is less about “clicking” and more about being in tune to each other, and giving fully to each other.
It is one of the myths of modern society which devastates marriage. All the tricks that a person knows will in time become boring. As your body changes, you will want different things. Good sex before marriage cannot ensure good sex later in life. The best assurance of that is that both you and your partner are giving fully- which is impossible before marriage.
When you have sex with a person who is not your spouse you artificially prop up the relationship. As you mentioned, sex releases hormones which incline the couple toward each other. The physical act, in its place, naturally reinforces the relationship. Why would you want that bond with someone who is not your spouse? Furthermore, promiscuity can lessen the natural effects of that bonding. You trick your body into reinforcing a relationship which is bound to end. Every time you tell your body that it was sending the wrong signals- “no, this isn’t the right guy.”- you weaken those signals. You teach yourself that the “closeness” which you feel is artificial.
And this without even brushing on the sinful nature of sexual acts before marriage. This without discussing the place of fertility.
Sex is a wonderful gift from God. We, unlike most animals, have sex for pleasure not just for procreation. It is both unitive and creative. Out of its context, it is neither. Out of marriage, sex is cheapened- it is trivialized. It encourages people to think they have found the right person because the “sex is good,” when they have only found someone who is currently adept at fulfilling them in one specific way. Ten years later, when the sex is not good anymore because both have changed and they ran out of tricks before they learned how to give, they can only hope that what else they have is enough.
In a sacramental marriage, sex is an awesome gift which reinforces the relationship. It brings the couple closer together and teaches them about one another. You learn how to listen, and not just to words. It teaches that in offering to each other, in giving, you receive and the reception is more fulfilling. Sex gives a couple a unique and personal relationship, which they will need to face the troubles life throws at them. Sex is a key component of marriage and it is not about heat (though that happens sometimes) it is about mutual and complete giving, emotional submission, physically representing a loving relationship which grows all the time. Out of marriage, it is just about the heat.
Would you rather learn to immerse yourself in a physical act which corresponds to a spiritual union- each giving more than taking, each learning how to give pleasure to the other by staying in tune to their body. Sex which gets better and better over the years. Or would you rather have a very exciting sex life which is bound to fizzle at some point since it is more about receiving than giving. It is more about those awesome tricks than emotional compatibility.
And, we probably should not go to far without talking about kids…
B
Beth_Cecilia
Guest
Not to pick on you, because I do appreciate your honesty, but how exactly does what you have here proposed differ from planning to sin?Better to sin a couple of times before marriage than it is to get a divorce bc you’re not compatible. Everyone sins every now and then, right? Don’t plan it ahead or anything, that will make your confession kind of empty. Do it once, repent, then go from there as you see fit. If it’s great, you don’t have to do it again till your wedding night, and this way, you’ve only sinned the one time. Plus, it’s not about lust - it’s about doing what’s best for you and her.
I hope you guys don’t mind me being so blunt. Just want the OP to get a spectrum of answers.
F
fms
Guest
Beth Cecilia, thank you for your post.
samiam1611 you are scary more so since you are a girl. OP would you take this kind of woman home to mother?
Samiam, how can you talk of these men as your ‘friends’ when what you and they do is rushing you to perdition?
Do you have parents and siblings? What do they say of your pre-marital behavior?
samiam1611 you are scary more so since you are a girl. OP would you take this kind of woman home to mother?
The only guarantee of happiness here and hereafter is following God’s law apart from which is nothing but shallowness, bitterness, loneliness (even when having a sexual partner who is none other than an accomplice in sin leading to complete ruin).
Samiam, how can you talk of these men as your ‘friends’ when what you and they do is rushing you to perdition?
Do you have parents and siblings? What do they say of your pre-marital behavior?
F
fms
Guest
Beth Cecilia, thank you for your post.
samiam1611 you are scary more so since you are a girl. OP would you take this kind of woman home to mother?
Your body is the gift of your future husband. Will you be happy to give him something used?
Do you have no shame at all at what you are doing?
Sooner or later our sins come to a head. They, the devil eventually come to collect payment. The regret will come maybe when you are married, perhaps to a wonderful man and then you would wish you had kept yourself for him. Maybe it will come through your children should they adopt your way of thinking and behavior and it breaks your heart when you see the consequences. Sooner or later, they come…
Samiam, how can you talk of these men as your ‘friends’ when what you and they do is rushing you to perdition?
Do you have parents and siblings? What do they say of your pre-marital behavior?
samiam1611 you are scary more so since you are a girl. OP would you take this kind of woman home to mother?
Your body is the gift of your future husband. Will you be happy to give him something used?
Do you have no shame at all at what you are doing?
Sooner or later our sins come to a head. They, the devil eventually come to collect payment. The regret will come maybe when you are married, perhaps to a wonderful man and then you would wish you had kept yourself for him. Maybe it will come through your children should they adopt your way of thinking and behavior and it breaks your heart when you see the consequences. Sooner or later, they come…
The only guarantee of happiness here and hereafter is following God’s law apart from which is nothing but shallowness, bitterness, loneliness (even when having a sexual partner who is none other than an accomplice in sin leading to complete ruin).
Samiam, how can you talk of these men as your ‘friends’ when what you and they do is rushing you to perdition?
Do you have parents and siblings? What do they say of your pre-marital behavior?
S
samiam1611
Guest
Well see I’m not Catholic so I don’t worry about that stuff
yes
My sister does it too. My parents told us to wait till marriage to have sex when we were younger. But realistically knew we wouldn’t. We were both out of high school; I think they would’ve been pretty mad if we had done it any younger than that. Not mature enough and stuff. Anyway, they don’t care at all now.
I didn’t word it quite right. Lemme try again…
Okay well for one thing, the OP didn’t ask should I or should I not have be chaste, so I didn’t even answer his question…oops.
But since I said that, I might as well fix it a little bit. This is how I see it for me - so it’s how I imagine it would be if I was in that situation.If I was married and the sex was not good, that would not be okay. I expect it would be frustrating or else I would just not feel like doing it at all. It would be an issue in our marriage, damaging. I would not be surprised if it did not work out bc it’s the ultimate expression of love. I just don’t think I could tolerate that for very long. Since it is possible to know beforehand how it’s going to be, I might as well find out instead of taking the risk of having a doomed relationship
Chastity is very virtuous and all so I’m not trying to persuade you to sin or anything. But if you don’t want to be single bad enough, you may find yourself in a situation asking you to compromise that virtue for the sake of the relationship. If that is a situation you find yourself in, you may have to decide which is more important - making God happy, or making yourself happy (with reasonable assurance). IMO, letting your devotion to God actuallyinterfere with this relationship would not make you happy in the long run. God is forgiving right? I think He’ll forgive you. I know He wouldn’t approve it of couse - just would forgive. So I would suggest not entering into a relationship with an absolute refusal mindset. That will expand the number of girls willing to be in a sexless relationship for awhile. More girls = less chance of never finding the one.
P
Peepers
Guest
I expect to remain single. That is a possibility to consider too.
0
06convert
Guest
I used to think this exact same thing. Now I realize a couple of things. 1st. If you’ve never had sex you have no idea that your partner isn’t any good at it. In fact, neither will you be. So you learn together. Grow together in that way. 2. It’s far more damaging to the relationship to constantly be comparing your partner to your other partners. Your partner may always be wondering if they are good enough. 3. There are hidden messages in the way we conduct ourselves. A person that is willing to have sex before they are married are in essence “ok” with having sex with someone that isn’t their spouse. So what’s to say that when you are married, that you won’t still think that it’s ok to have sex with someone that isn’t your spouse? Trust issues ensue. 4. Most importantly . There is more to a relationship than sex. People that are for some reason unable to have sex are capable of loving each other very much.
As someone has mentioned before. Is it really ok with you that we just “try each other out”? Doesn’t that seem a little messed up? What about the person that you may have coaxed into having sex with you, that you left, because they weren’t good. Now that person can’t find “the one” because “the one” doesn’t want someone that has already had sex. So now you’ve messed up that persons life because you wanted to “try them out”. God’s happiness doesn’t rely on our personal decisions. He cares about you and will wait for you to come home. He loves you despite your sins.
Let’s flip this.** IMO, letting your devotion to this relationship actually interfere with God would not make you happy in the long run. Your BF understands right? I think he’ll forgive you. I know he wouldn’t approve it of course - just would forgive.** See how silly this sounds? Look at how we treat God. We would never treat a human being like this, yet God waits for us to love Him back. Is your BF as understanding as God?
N
ndeparis88
Guest
This was another avenue I went down. See I am not a virgin, when I started going through RCIA I was reading books about chastity. I realized that’s how I carried myself for as long as I could remember. So if I was with a girl who wasn’t a virgin that isn’t a deal breaker for me. The important part is if she is willing to try and wait. I say this because I really think that if we would do that part right, thing will be better in the long run. I always wanted to have someone to cherish and I think by waiting, that is a part of cherishing something really special , and pleasing God at the same time.
S
samiam1611
Guest
All of these are excellent points. The only point that provoked a nuh-uh response in me are the points I put in red above. No, most people would not understand. All you have to do to get God’s forgiveness is go to confession. So in just a few minutes, you are in the good graces of God and your girlfriend. On the flip side, if the issue is that a future gf would not be willing to marry someone who was not a virgin, they must not really be “the one,” bc “the one” would forgive the person for having pre-marital sex. Especially if the person only did it once or twice. While pre-marital sex is not a trivial thing, it’s not exactly the end of the world either so that’d be messed up to dump someone just bc they were not a virgin. People are more stubborn than God, so technically, erring on the side of caution, forgiveness-wise, is to break God’s rules, not a person’s rules.
Assuming we do not know the person is “the one” at first, I think that, statistically, the OP will have more luck finding the one without an “absolutely not” mindset. Telling a girl he wants to wait till he’s in love to have sex sounds like something a person who is very respectful of women would say, and maybe a girl who can wait that long will be willing to wait even longer than that. Saying he wants to wait till marriage is square. Especially if he won’t do other “stuff” too. I hear passionate kissing and fooling around etc are not allowed bc it leads to lustful thoughts? Who would go for that, with so many other fish in the sea? A very small number of people. Very very small. That’s just the way it is, I’m not saying that’s the way it should be.
Obviously, finding a Catholic girl with the same values as him would be best for all involved. But if he gives a good effort and cannot find a strict Catholic girl to marry, relaxing his own standards (standards for himself, that is) will yield more possibilities, if he decides that permanent singleness is not for him.
N
ndeparis88
Guest
Honestly I am not a virgin, will I turn a girl away because she is not absolutely not. But why is it that people have a hard time respecting other peoples wishes. I would tell a girl sex without love is meaningless, I have always told people that and I’m going to take that with me to my grave. what bothers me is that apparently from what you’re saying is that instant gratification is more important than being able to love that person. I have made out with girls before and you know what, it never meant that I fell for them or them me.
Also why would I want statistical girl. Wouldn’t I want one who is the right for me. What is square is the fact that people want sex more than they want love. Why would I even make out or make a girl do things when I am not invested about caring for her. I made that mistake once and once is enough for me to get the picture. Plus if we do wait and it doesn’t work out, why would I regret it. I kept her from being used and I did my job, will she be so lucky with the next guy I don’t know. Now I don’t know if woman just don’t want to be good because they think it’s to much work, but that shouldn’t stop you from noticing a guy who is honorable and has conviction. What men ore left that have those things. The princes are not fairy tales they just look different now and if you took the time to look you’ll find them. What will sex assure in you, that he can satisfy you, well that’s great, what about putting food on the table, how good of listener he is, how well he respects you, how loyal he is. Sex tells none of those things, and it shouldn’t be the deal breaker for a guy like that, sex doesn’t tell how good a father he will be, or how handy he is around the house. Waiting does not make us any less worthy to be with someone.
S
samiam1611
Guest
I think you misunderstood me/took it out of context. 06convert said
I was not suggesting that applied to you.
They just do
Some more than others.no i am not saying that…not intentionally anyway - what part of what i wrote made you think that? (I will clarify whatever it is.)
huh?
of course, and I hope you find her.
Well no, that is not the definition of square.
Well maybe you don’t, which is fine. Some people do not have the same morals as you. Some people indulge their physical desires when given the oppurtunity.
Umm, bc divorce sucks. (absolute worst case scenario. I mean it’d have to be realllly bad and I still doubt two people would get a divorce if that were the only reason.)
It is very honorable and shows you have integrity, which are wonderful traits. I would indeed take note. Would I go on a date with them? Certainly. Would I enter into a serious relationship with them? Maybe. Would I marry them? No. I would not make a lifelong commitment with someone if I did not know them intimately. Seems like an unnecessary risk. That’s just me though.
All of these things are important. Determining if a person has these traits is done in different ways. Sexual ability is just one aspect of a person.
Certainly not. I just see it as an unnecessary risk. (marrying them without knowing them intimately). I’m not going to spend thousands of dollars on a wedding if an essential aspect of that person is unknown to me. Well maybe not essential, but…important. Similarly, I would not marry someone I had not lived with.
If you were to make a list of the traits you would like your future spouse, don’t you think good at sex would be on it? Maybe it is of low importance to you - but surely it woud be on that list.
You are worried you will be permanently single bc of this. I am saying that is a valid worry. I’m sure you will find girls willing to wait. Maybe - hopefully - one of these girls is the one for you. If you meet a girl who is your dream girl and you are her dream guy except she won’t marry you until you’ve had sex, my suggestion is to have sex with her! If you won’t, you may lose her. Hence, you are right to be worried.
C
caoindealbhan
Guest
First, meet someone in a church setting who shares your views on chastity. Many people do not prescribe to chastity and you will be labelled a prude. Don’t limit yourself to Catholics. Episcopalians are very close to our faith. Go to some of their services and meet someone. Sex should be excluded from dating. It is potentially dangerous and to some people it usually is the end of the relationship. Some people collect hash marks for conquests.
N
ndeparis88
Guest
Again I go back to saying that is just a bridge where we will have to get to first. I know there is the great possibility I will caveI think you misunderstood me/took it out of context. 06convert said I was not suggesting that applied to you.
Oh I understand I was just trying to set up the post, just to establish experience in a certain area and how it didn’t work out well
They just do
**I was told by one of my parents, that I would fall in love with someone and I would end up having to go that far, I thought about it and honestly I’m not crossing that bridge until I come to it. I’m not shut off form the idea, but neither will I try to push the agenda, if its gotta happen then We’ll cross that bridge then, that’s as far as i’ll move on that point **
no i am not saying that…not intentionally anyway - what part of what i wrote made you think that? (I will clarify whatever it is.)
But you did because according to you it’s a ultimate factor. Like it sounds as if there will be no compromise, if they are not good in the sac then there as good as done
huh?
what I mean is that she a run of mill girl, a girl who is basically fitting to a whole multitude of people, I’m saying the person we marry is basically fined tuned for each others frequency’s
of course, and I hope you find her.
Well no, that is not the definition of square.
**Then neither could the thing I said be considered square
**
Well maybe you don’t, which is fine. Some people do not have the same morals as you. Some people indulge their physical desires when given the opportunity.
Agree doesn’t make it right or Justifiable
Umm, bc divorce sucks. (absolute worst case scenario. I mean it’d have to be realllly bad and I still doubt two people would get a divorce if that were the only reason.)
**I meant the relationship prior to marriage
**
It is very honorable and shows you have integrity, which are wonderful traits. I would indeed take note. Would I go on a date with them? Certainly. Would I enter into a serious relationship with them? Maybe. Would I marry them? No. I would not make a lifelong commitment with someone if I did not know them intimately. Seems like an unnecessary risk. That’s just me though.
then you can not be considered to live life to the fullest because that is a risk you didn’t take. Sex is not synonymous with love no matter what you think. So having sex with someone to see if you can love them is foolish.
All of these things are important. Determining if a person has these traits is done in different ways. Sexual ability is just one aspect of a person.
So how do they stack up compared to sex because the survey out now is woman prefer financial security more than sex. Sex is second, but for the 1st place winner it is financial security. Just look at Donald Trump and his woman
Certainly not. I just see it as an unnecessary risk. (marrying them without knowing them intimately). I’m not going to spend thousands of dollars on a wedding if an essential aspect of that person is unknown to me. Well maybe not essential, but…important. Similarly, I would not marry someone I had not lived with.
and you can still know what living with someone is going to be like without actually living with them.
If you were to make a list of the traits you would like your future spouse, don’t you think good at sex would be on it? Maybe it is of low importance to you - but surely it would be on that list.
But it wouldn’t be any where near a factor in determining if I can be with them I mean if say she is a virgin is there something saying she is going to be great. No. That;s part of the adventure is getting good together
You are worried you will be permanently single bc of this. I am saying that is a valid worry. I’m sure you will find girls willing to wait. Maybe - hopefully - one of these girls is the one for you. If you meet a girl who is your dream girl and you are her dream guy except she won’t marry you until you’ve had sex, my suggestion is to have sex with her! If you won’t, you may lose her. Hence, you are right to be worried.
- Status