Permissibility of praying to increase one's social class/caste

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Billy4

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I recently learned about the 54-day novena and it’s power and I want to know about the theological opinion on asking the “boon” of moving one’s socio-economic class.
Im not interested in luxury goods or sports cars,I have reasons for this that are more akin to socilogy and the good I can do(from a political position, having more money to give as alms, etc)

Basically i wont be a luxurious person but its important for me to live part of life in a class different to that in which I was born. when im elderly ill probably give it all away and die poor. This prayer intention is also linked to my country and the reality of how life is here.
 
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I am not a Christian and I do not know what country you are from. Perhaps this question is more significant to you if you are from India and you are a dalit, for example. I know that technically the Indian caste system has been abolished, but I know that it actually persists to this day. Am I right in thinking that in India you cannot usually change your caste anyway?

If you want my personal take on this, I think you would be better off praying for the abolition of class/caste distinctions. I come from a country which still has a class system, and I think we would all be better off without it. We have the royal family, dukes, marquesses, earls, viscounts, barons, baronets, knights, the landed gentry, educated professionals (themselves informally ranked: barristers, doctors, and clergy, then solicitors, vets, dentists, academics, then teachers, nurses, midwives, social workers, etc), office workers, tradesmen and shopkeepers, labourers, etc. Class is also determined by your accent, where you went to school (public school or state school) and university (Oxbridge, redbricks, plate glass, ex-polys, etc), your parents’ occupations, etc. It is a ridiculous, archaic system that should have been abolished c. the end of the First World War. Sorry, just my personal rant!

No doubt you can pray to improve your personal circumstances in life. But I would rather people were trying to change the system than just advancing their own position in it. I would be interested to know what others think.
 
Strictly speaking there’s not much you can’t pray to God for so long as you pray it out of love, especially if you keep it clear in your head that if there is a conflict between what you want and what He wants you prefer what He wants. I’d even go so far as to say that praying for something worldly is better than not praying. Just remember to pray for your end goal when you pray for your preferred way of reaching it.
 
Christ teaches us that we must be faithful first in little things. Do you currently give of your time, talent and treasure to the Church and to the poor?
 
I dont want to brag but you asked honestly so I’ll answer;before quarentine,for 2 years i gave a tithe of my income to my parish’s charity boxes for sick children and poor students. I also did,and still do, give alms of my pocket money to homeless and beggars. I was going to buy a large stack of food for the parish’s soup kitchen before lockdown struck.
 
That is being on the right path! Keep being faithful and pray to be content.
 
Are you trying to pray for the right thing though? You aren’t really that restricted by your social class/caste, that is a bit of an illusion. If you really want to be able to increase your charity, go out and do it. Your finances/social status alone aren’t what determine how charitable you can be.

There’s more than one way to offer charity. Charity can be offered in prayer (praying for conversion, praying for the poor souls in Purgatory, etc), penance/mortification (fasting, etc), volunteering (time/energy), etc…money and things aren’t the be all end all for charity. ie- there are St. Vincent de Paul Conferences all over the world, and there should be nothing stopping you from being able to open your own local Conference if none exists.

Many charities out there need help and extra hands, not just food/money. If your financial situation changed due to the lockdown, consider changing the type of charity you think you can offer.

You might see yourself as inside the box, but there’s a lot more outside the box. 🙂
 
TheIttyBitty said:
You aren’t really that restricted by your social class/caste, that is a bit of an illusion.
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I guess that depends where the OP is from. If he is Indian and is a dalit, I think that does impose restrictions. But we don’t know where he is from, so I am just guessing.
 
I started rosary praying yesterday,but im bad at fasting. I think social class really conditions you and limits you(both ways,some yuppies would love to be hooligans i know),I seek freedom,and also honestly some material enjoyement(fine cigars, meat dishes frequently)
 
Billy4 said:
I want to know about the theological opinion on asking the “boon” of moving one’s socio-economic class.
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It will depend on your motives. For what specific reasons do you wish to climb the social ladder? What do you hope to gain and accomplish?
 
blackforest said:
For what specific reasons do you wish to climb the social ladder? What do you hope to gain and accomplish?
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I see it as a form of masculinty,(in a male),im not saying the poor are girly but the desire itself of wanting to be an aristocrat, I consider it manly.
im also a patriot/nationalist,and I need to become a country-level upper class to be effective in political and social proyects which can help my country. Influence,connections, phsyical goods,all that is needed to start in politics.
 
Billy4 said:
I see it as a form of masculinty,(in a male),im not saying the poor are girly but the desire itself of wanting to be an aristocrat, I consider it manly.
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I think the proper prayer, then, would be for God to show you your vocation as a male, however that may be. Being rich just to be “manly” may be more of a matter of pride than of holiness.

I don’t have enough context about your country and culture. God may or may not be calling you into politics, but there are always ways to make a difference in your community and continually practice and advocate for Catholic Social Teaching.
 
I do not think this is a worthwhile thing to pray for. We are called to be detached from this world. The last shall be first. It is more blessed to give than to receive.
 
There is nothing wrong with wanting to improve one’s social standing, or even praying that this will take place.

I was the first generation of my family ever to go to college. My father barely finished high school — highly intelligent, but his father died when he was 9, and by the time he was in high school, he was working two and sometimes three jobs, to support his mother as well as other family members who were in various stages of not being able to provide fully for themselves. Through a lifetime of hard work and wheeling-dealing, he was able to retire comfortably.

So, yes, wanting and even praying to improve one’s social station, I for one am okay with that.
 
Not sure.

Jesus possibly could have had more power and influence in his own time had He been born into (or moved in later life into) a higher socio-economic class. He chose not to.

I think he made that choice - to be born and remain poor - for a reason. He lived in a time, much like ours, where poverty was stigmatised. I think He chose to come among us as a poor person to show us that poverty is neither something to be ashamed of nor, indeed, a barrier to holiness or doing good.
 
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It is permissible to pray for material things, along with a submission to God’s will (“your will be done, on Earth as it is in Heaven”).
 
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Billy4 said:
I see it as a form of masculinty,(in a male),im not saying the poor are girly but the desire itself of wanting to be an aristocrat, I consider it manly.
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I don’t know whether this is part of Catholic doctrine that I don’t understand or whether you just have some rather peculiar ideas about the nature of masculinity. Perhaps others can help. Is it Catholic teaching that it is more “manly” to wish to obtain the status of an aristocrat? I can only imagine that it is not, as many Catholic countries no longer recognise the existence of an aristocratic class (e.g. Poland, Austria, Ireland, Portugal, Italy).

There are plenty of examples of aristocratic and even royal men who are poor examples of “masculinity”. For example, Prince Andrew, the duke of York, his great uncle King Edward VIII, also King Edward VII and King George IV. During the Second World War, who was more manly, the ordinary men who fought and won the war or aristocratic fascists such as Sir Oswald Mosley and the duke of Bedford? The late 7th marquess of Bath was a prolific womaniser who boasted of having more than 70 affairs throughout his marriage, referring to his lovers as his “wifelets”. His family was so dysfunctional that he did not attend his son’s wedding.
 
In the words of the great Notorious B.I.G., “Mo’ money mo’ problems.”

If you want to increase your wealth substantially, okay, the question is: why? For the sake of selfish pleasure, for the sake of a moderate increase in comfort and ease in life, or for the ability to help others? Maybe a mix of these? Purge the first reason, try to focus on the third… it’s hard. And keep your eyes wide open to the “mo’ problems” that come with dolla dolla bills.
 
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You can pray for whatever you like. But God will give you what is best for you. For example, I asked God to give me lots of money. I was thinking along the lines of winning the big lottery category. What happened immediately after was that when I left my home I found a whole bunch of pennies lying on the sidewalk.
 
My reason has to do with my patriotism,I need to become powerful to help my country. its complex!
 
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