Permissible to shorten Litany of the Saints at Easter Vigil?

[Beno]

Are there any rules regarding what saints must be included in the Litany of the Saints for it to fulfill its purpose at the Easter Vigil Mass? The music director at my friend’s church wants to shorten John Becker’s version of it by eliminating several verses with the reason being to try and shorten the length of the Mass.

I did find is that there are different categories of saints that are represented in the Litany of the Saints: the apostles, and early disciples, martyrs, doctors of the church, early fathers of the church, founders of religious orders, contemporary saints, church namesakes, etc. But I haven’t found which saints definately should be invoked in the Litany.

 

[jmcrae]

Are there any rules regarding what saints must be included in the Litany of the Saints for it to fulfill its purpose at the Easter Vigil Mass? The music director at my friend’s church wants to shorten John Becker’s version of it by eliminating several verses with the reason being to try and shorten the length of the Mass.

What’s the rush?

 

[Beno]

What’s the rush?

Precisely, my point exactly.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Are there any rules regarding what saints must be included in the Litany of the Saints for it to fulfill its purpose at the Easter Vigil Mass? The music director at my friend’s church wants to shorten John Becker’s version of it by eliminating several verses with the reason being to try and shorten the length of the Mass.

I did find is that there are different categories of saints that are represented in the Litany of the Saints: the apostles, and early disciples, martyrs, doctors of the church, early fathers of the church, founders of religious orders, contemporary saints, church namesakes, etc. But I haven’t found which saints definately should be invoked in the Litany.

You have the legitimate option of eliminating some of the Old Testament readings. But the Litany must be read (or sung, reading is faster) as written in the liturgical books.

 

[otjm]

What’s the rush?

I don’t think it is an issue of a rush; it is an issue of a service that can easily go two to two and one half hours, depending on how may are being baptized and how many are entering the church. It could possbily take up to three hours with a hugh group entering. The Liturgy for Holy Saturday night starts at nightfall, whioch normally will put it somewhere around 8 to 8:30 starting. Add 2 1/2 hours and we are looking at 11 p.m.

Few minutes won’t make much difference for some; for others it will. But the word “rush” is really not the issue. How long the duration is. And with the Exultet sung, and the Litany sung, it does seem to stretch out.

 

[lizaanne]

I would be so terribly sad if this were my parish - singing the Litany of the Saints is one of the most beautiful parts of the Vigil. I hope he reconsiders.

Poor saints - they certainly never asked for much, the least we can do is sing to them once a year.

~Liza

 

[jmcrae]

I don’t think it is an issue of a rush; it is an issue of a service that can easily go two to two and one half hours, depending on how may are being baptized and how many are entering the church. It could possbily take up to three hours with a huge group entering. The Liturgy for Holy Saturday night starts at nightfall, whioch normally will put it somewhere around 8 to 8:30 starting. Add 2 1/2 hours and we are looking at 11 p.m.

You say that like it’s a bad thing. Isn’t the Easter Vigil supposed to go on until midnight?

Few minutes won’t make much difference for some; for others it will. But the word “rush” is really not the issue. How long the duration is. And with the Exultet sung, and the Litany sung, it does seem to stretch out.

And again, my question - what’s the rush?

Is there something better or more important that we could be doing?

 

[m134e5]

Are there any rules regarding what saints must be included in the Litany of the Saints for it to fulfill its purpose at the Easter Vigil Mass? The music director at my friend’s church wants to shorten John Becker’s version of it by eliminating several verses with the reason being to try and shorten the length of the Mass.

I did find is that there are different categories of saints that are represented in the Litany of the Saints: the apostles, and early disciples, martyrs, doctors of the church, early fathers of the church, founders of religious orders, contemporary saints, church namesakes, etc. But I haven’t found which saints definately should be invoked in the Litany.

To start, your friend could drop Origen from the litany. Origen was a heretic, who John Becker had the audacity to include in his arrangement. The melody is nice, and it was the version used at the Mass I was baptized at, so it is meaningful to me, but I really don’t like the fact that it was written to make a statement endorsing a heretic.

Why shorten the Mass? So what if it takes four hours (I’m not even sure it would take that long if you do all the readings, sing all the prayers, psalms, and acclamations, have a lot of initiations, and a long homily and communion line)? It’s the most important, most solemn liturgy of the Church year. Spare no expense! I think churches should do all that, plus have a reception after Mass to welcome the new converts, and simply to celebrate the Resurrection.

 

[otjm]

You say that like it’s a bad thing. Isn’t the Easter Vigil supposed to go on until midnight?

And again, my question - what’s the rush?

Is there something better or more important that we could be doing?

I do not say it like it is a bad thing; I did not use the rush, someone else did. Most people are not used to being up at that hour of the night, and as one gets tired, one’s attention tends to wander. I don’t think the proposal was made in order to rush anything; I think it was made simply acknowledging that it is a long and late service.

I took no position on the matter. I have attended the liturgy for the last eleven years thraight becaue I am part of our RCIA team. I think it is a beautiful liturgy, and every year I vote for all 7 readings, and every year it gets cut to 5. As to saying it is a bad thing, don’t read words into my sttement; I am entriely capable of saying what I think. I was simply answering a post.

And as to your last comment, yes, some people could be doing something better, if they are so tired during the service that they lose patience, or fall asleep. What they could do better would be to attend one that was shorter; if their purpose is to worship God, they aren’t doing much of that if they can’t maintain focus.

 

[love4mary]

At my parish we have the Easter Vigil Mass, Saturday at sundown which usually takes a good two hours. The MOST beautiful Mass of the year. We also have an Easter Morning Mass which takes the usual One Hour to celebrate.

The Saturday Vigil Mass is the Most attended of the two masses and we Sing the Litany of the Saints:thumbsup:

 

[Titus]

It’s not like anyone’s forced to attend the Easter Vigil except Catechumens. So why do we need to constantly shorten things so ‘the old ones can participate’ as the refrain goes at my parish.

Rant over.

Sorry.

 

[jmcrae]

And as to your last comment, yes, some people could be doing something better, if they are so tired during the service that they lose patience, or fall asleep. What they could do better would be to attend one that was shorter; if their purpose is to worship God, they aren’t doing much of that if they can’t maintain focus.

I agree with this.

 

[Evan]

To start, your friend could drop Origen from the litany. Origen was a heretic.

On the other hand, there are those who think Origen was a saint. He has always been contriversial depending, not on what he wrote, but on how your understand what he wrote.

 

[Titus]

On the other hand, there are those who think Origen was a saint. He has always been contriversial depending, not on what he wrote, but on how your understand what he wrote.

Surely he either is or isn’t in the Church?

 

[m134e5]

Surely he either is or isn’t in the Church?

He isn’t one. Whether or not his writings are heretical are one thing. He was not canonized a saint, and so he should not be in the Litany of the Saints- I suspect the composer put his name in there to make a statement against the Church.

 

[Titus]

Very odd. Do all parishes use his name? I’m pretty sure i’ve never heard it.

 

[DiZent]

I love hearing the Litany of Saints sung. I never really noticed before that Origin was mentioned, nor had I ever heard he was a heretic. Not a saint, but always mentioned among the ECF.

 

[Mintaka]

Some of Origen’s writings turned out, later on (after he was dead), to have been mistaken. However, Origen lived and died in submission to the will of the Church. So there is every reason to believe that he was not truly a heretic, and that he died a holy death.

However, he has not been canonized. So it’s more than a bit presumptuous.

St. Hippolytus, in the same verse of the song, was a schismatic with some heretical stuff going on, but he repented and reconciled with his Pope while they were working in the mines together. So he stopped being a heretic and a schismatic before he became a saint.

 

[Jayda]

What’s the rush?

I wish they would spend more time… it is hard for me to reflect on all of these great men and women when certain priests rush through the litany. we are supposed to be commemorating, asking them to pray for us and most of all learning from their examples…

 

[JKirkLVNV]

It’s not like anyone’s forced to attend the Easter Vigil except Catechumens. So why do we need to constantly shorten things so ‘the old ones can participate’ as the refrain goes at my parish.

Rant over.

Sorry.

I don’t favor “shortening” for the sake of shortening, but there are considerations. Priests, music directors, musicians, choirs often have multiple masses that they must attend (esp. priests…in our parish, there are 8 masses per Sunday if you include the vigil. We have 3 priests, true, BUT…it’s so crowded on Easter that each of those masses is shadowed by another Mass held at the same time in the parish hall!).

Still, the vigil is the vigil, and I wouldn’t shorten the litany. I’d even add more saints, St. Gianna Molla, Saint Maximillian Kolbe, Saint Josephine Bakhita, St. Juan Diego, etc. I think I’d try to include the names of the patrons of all those being baptized/received/confirmed. I also would have all the readings. The Church requires a homily at all masses, but I wish that for Good Friday and Easter, she would rethink that. The Gospel could stand on it’s own, on those two days at least, without commentary.