perpetual virginity of Mary..T or F?

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AbideWithMe said:
Huh?

That was my first post on this thread, YADA. I didn’t say whether I believed Jesus had siblings or not.
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You made a comment that referenced one of my many posts - where I used humor/sarcasm in response to those who ultimately start a discussion then they say “well to bad - that is my opinion and I am entitled to it” - paraphrased 😉 … then your comment wanting to know where “Christ was in that” …

perhaps if you had read every post … 🤷

It can be very frustrating to have people come her and say you don’t read the scriptures for yourself - you only parrot what the Church tells you to believe … like Catholics have no brains, no ability to read and think critically and no one ever read the scriptures with real understanding until the one who read it and interpreted it int he way the poster thinks is correct :rolleyes:

It can be frustrating to have someone post to you - Keep reading your bible - like if I read it - I will come around to their ‘truth’

It can be frustrating to have someone say it does not matter whether Mary remained a Virgin - and when you point out that it does matter and can lead to disbelief in a Virgin Birth and the Resurrection of Jesus [with a concrete real example of a high profile Protestant Bishop who held those beliefs] - you are told that its not true - they don’t speak for their Church - its just their opinion …

And then get posts that basically say - I know what others believe but it does not make sense to me and this does and its my opinion and I have that right …

My post acknowledged that everyone has a right to their opinion and belief … and that is the fruit of the Protestant Reformation … everyone can decide for themselves what is Christian - what Christian’s believe - what is important for salvation and what is not … what every passage of scripture means and what it does not … and you only have to look back into history as far as necessary to find support for you position - beyond that point - nothing matters.

In the spirit of the free for all of the various Protestant Communions - it would be nice if they would give Catholics that same freedom to express our Christianity - without the being told we blindly follow the Pope [or why that would matter - if it was true :rolleyes: - if that was our ‘opinion’ of how we believe]

Oh and one more thing … we can do without links to articles on anti-catholic websites - too … where is the Christ in that?
 
EvangelCatholic said:
aidanbradypop

Thank you for presenting thoughtful questions/ opinions even when the backlash can be difficult.
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My pleasure 🙂
I suspect theological studies have traced the evolution of the belief in Mary, ever Virgin or not. Maybe someone will research this topic more clearly. I am particularly interested in how Reformed Protestants and Methodists explain how their founding fathers supported the belief in perpetual virginity of Mary.
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A friend of mine, a retired Methodist pastor, stated that the PV of Mary plays no part in our salvation. Kind of like a hallow doctrine.
Lutherans and Anglicans have a long history of Marion devotion; one need only look inside our churches to see that the “holy and most blessed Virgin” [per Lutheran-Catholic Dialogue] is honored and revered. But like other mysteries Lutherans are unable to fully explain, the role of Mary. I’m sure that there are Lutheran clergy who may also doubt Mary’s perpetual virginity but our teachings refer to Our Lady as the foremost of all saints who worships Christ and prays for the Church.
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From my investigation into the matter, I draw the conclusion that many do believe in the PV of Mary within the Lutheran and Anglican traditions. Those that do not subscribe to it are not really opposed to it but rather really do not care either way. Now a fundamentalist Protestant will be completely against such a belief. Some I have spoken with even say that proclaiming Mary to be a PV is simply trying to make her higher than she really is.

I assume that those non Catholics that are against the Marian doctrines completely will often hold a literal view of Scripture…7 days of creation and etc.

I remember asking my Anglican aunt about it a few years ago. She told me that tradition has always kept to the belief that Mary was a ever virgin and there was really not a reason to doubt such a belief. She went on to state that believing or not believing does not get her closer or farther from heaven.
 
Is Mary an example of Protestant animosity for anything “Catholic” esp in America?
 
EvangelCatholic said:
Is Mary an example of Protestant animosity for anything “Catholic” esp in America?
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Possibly in some areas. I would say that as traditions kept reforming, the need for Mary got smaller and smaller to the point where many traditions exclude her completely except in a sentence or two at Christmas.
 
aidanbradypop said:
Possibly in some areas. I would say that as traditions kept reforming, the need for Mary got smaller and smaller to the point where many traditions exclude her completely except in a sentence or two at Christmas.
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Traditions that believe Our Lady of Guadalupe or dismiss it differ from the anger some Protestants express.
 
As a former Roman Catholic myself it is my understanding that the perpetual virginity teaching regarding Mary was and still is related to that other belief held :(made an “article of faith”, or dogma ,in the relatively recent years of Roman Catholic history)That is,that Mary was "ever sinless "and Indeed was and is "The immaculate conception ".
I make no comment on this teaching ; I only find it an I interesting fact that no mention has been made of it throughout the inter-faith discussions regarding the subject of perpetual virginity. Bernard Lyons .
 
YADA said:
Why does it matter if Mary was perpetually virgin or not? … the Truth … that is why it matters … The Truth always matters … Our Lord is not the Lord of confusion, disunity and falsehoods … Our Lord is the author of Truth - He founded One church, One faith, He prayed and sweat blood for us - His People - His Church to be One as He and the Father are One … that is why it matters - not any individual person’s opinion or interpretation
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Amen.
 
pocohombre said:
Psalm 69:8, I have become a stranger unto my brethren and an alien unto my mother’s children, for the zeal of thine house has eaten me up". Means nothing right ?
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Binding and loosing. Shunned by his own people, weighed in the balance, judged and found wanting
 
I agree that the doctrine of Perpetual Virginity of Mary is not central or relevant to salvation-

In this life we will never know will we-I agree the biblical texts can be viewed as supporting
the concept that Jesus had brothers and sisters-even Paul refers to James as the Brother of the Lord-

For Roman Catholics it is dogma-I have never heard one teaching on this issue at our Parish-nor anyone request it

Is it really important -?-
 
GaryTaylor said:
Binding and loosing. Shunned by his own people, weighed in the balance, judged and found wanting
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It’s in the eyes of the beholder, for weighing purposes. The piercing , the casting of lots for robe, the stripes, were quite literal as I suspect so were “mother’s children”.
 
pocohombre said:
It’s in the eyes of the beholder, for weighing purposes. The piercing , the casting of lots for robe, the stripes, were quite literal as I suspect so were “mother’s children”.
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Who gets to decide what’s literal and when? Doesn’t that admittedly seem to be a repetitive issue?
 
pocohombre said:
Psalm 69:8, I have become a stranger unto my brethren and an alien unto my mother’s children, for the zeal of thine house has eaten me up". Means nothing right ?
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Not within proper context. You can take any verse and twist its meaning if you ignore history, logic and the traditions of Christianity.
 
pocohombre said:
It’s in the eyes of the beholder, for weighing purposes. The piercing , the casting of lots for robe, the stripes, were quite literal as I suspect so were “mother’s children”.
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So what makes your authority something to be taken seriously against 2000+ years of history and tradition that teach otherwise? “I suspect” means nothing, nothing at all.
 
Lochias said:
Not within proper context. You can take any verse and twist its meaning if you ignore history, logic and the traditions of Christianity.
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No more than twisting of children from another marriage or “cousins” or vow of perpetual virginity from mary and joseph. So many prophecies of Christ were not literal ?
 
Lochias said:
So what makes your authority something to be taken seriously against 2000+ years of history and tradition that teach otherwise? “I suspect” means nothing, nothing at all.
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May we both should defer to each other with this possibility: to err for sure, but also, “there is a spirit in a man, and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding” Job 32 and “multitude of wisdom should teach wisdom” but didn’t with Job’s older friends but the young Elihu was “correct” and in line with God. Whoever is right has* the* authority.
 
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