perpetual virginity of Mary..T or F?

[pocohombre]

Among all the women of the earth, you are blessed.

She was being singled out as special from the crowd, Poco. Or is that not obvious from the fact that God chose her to bear His Son?

Was she special or was she specially blessed,to carry the son ?

 

[pocohombre]

So the fact she is the ONLY women in history to be called blessed among women by God-does not place her above ALL women?

I love how you knock her down to just another woman.

Was she above all women outside of the blessing of carrying the Christchild ? I do not knock except that which is extra biblical such as her being in perfect union with God, from her inception to Assumption, like no other human being except Jesus. Sorry for being biblical and only saying she is blessed amongst women, and we will never forget her blessing of carrying Emanuel.This universal to all and I am sorry you find it belittling.

 

[Isaiah45_9]

Was she above all women outside of the blessing of carrying the Christchild ? I do not knock except that which is extra biblical such as her being in perfect union with God, from her inception to Assumption, like no other human being except Jesus. Sorry for being biblical and only saying she is blessed amongst women, and we will never forget her blessing of carrying Emanuel.This universal to all and I am sorry you find it belittling.

What Blessed Mary Ever Virgin is - is **because **of Christ. Do you really not see the significance of a woman carrying Christ in her womb? Is it really that common for you?

God chose Mary out of all the billions of women in human history to carry His only begotten Son. Is it not a Blessing above all women?

Death through Eve, Life through Mary.

Your comments are not only belittling but dismissive as well

 

[Randy_Carson]

Was she special or was she specially blessed,to carry the son ?

Uh…both?

She was specially blessed by her own Immaculate Conception in order that she might carry the Son.

Is this REALLY so difficult?

 

[pocohombre]

So true, some cannot stand that the Blessed Mother was given something they will never attain here on earth. Just plain ignorance of Scripture and Church teachings. They are full of jealousy, pride, and self-indulgence. They assume to know Gods mind and will, they want to box God in and apply limits on Him. as for me I would not want to be standing in front of Christ on the final judgment and have to answer to Him regarding how callous and disrespectful I was to His Mother, our Blessed Mother.

From the Haydocks Catholic Bible Commentary (haydock1859.tripod.com/id1731.html)

Ver. 28. Hail, full of grace:[5] by the greatest share of divine graces granted to any creature. This translation, approved by the ancient Fathers, agrees with the ancient Syriac and Arabic versions. There was no need therefore to change it into gracious, with Erasmus; into freely beloved, with Beza; into highly favoured, with the Protestant translators. For if seven deacons (Acts vi. 3.) are said to be full of the Holy Ghost, as it is again said of St. Stephen, (Acts vii. 55.) and also of the same St. Stephen, (Acts vi. ver. 8.) that he was full of grace, (as the learned Dr. Wells translates it in his amendments made to the Protestant translation) why should any one be offended at this salutation given to the blessed mother of God; who would not have been raised to this highest dignity, had not her soul been first prepared for it by the greatest share of divine graces? — The Lord is with thee, by his interior graces; and now, at this moment, is about to confer upon thee the highest of all dignities, by making thee truly the mother of God. (Witham) — The Catholic Church makes frequent use of these words which were brought by the archangel from heaven, as well to honour Jesus Christ and his virgin Mother, as because they were the first glad tidings of Christ’s incarnation, and man’s salvation; and are the very abridgment and sum of the whole gospel. In the Greek Church, they are used daily in the Mass [the Divine Liturgy]. See the Liturgy of St. James, and that of St. Chrysostom.

Thank you.Have seen this before.Agreed that she was prepared but not immaculate at her inception, but pure in the Jewish sense, enough to receive the blessing.

 

[Nicea325]

Thank you.Have seen this before.Agreed that she was prepared **but not immaculate **at her inception, but pure in the Jewish sense, enough to receive the blessing.

Of course,you a mere finite creature no more than an Eternal-infinite God? It is a no brainer who to believe…

 

[Nicea325]

Was she above all women outside of the blessing of carrying the Christchild ? I do not knock except that which is **extra biblical **such as her being in perfect union with God, from her inception to Assumption, like no other human being except Jesus. **Sorry for being biblical **and only saying she is blessed amongst women, and we will never forget her blessing of carrying Emanuel.This universal to all and I am sorry you find it belittling.

Extra bibical? Like your whole bible-only belief that you hold on to? How strange the early church never once bothered to mention SS as a vital belief at any council?

You are sorry for being biblical? I do not find it biblical,but a poor biblical exegesis on your part. Cannot really blame you.

 

[Nicea325]

Uh…both?

She was specially blessed by her own Immaculate Conception in order that she might carry the Son.

Is this REALLY so difficult?

It is difficult when one suffers from spiritual pride.

 

[pocohombre]

Uh…both?

She was specially blessed by her own Immaculate Conception in order that she might carry the Son.

Is this REALLY so difficult?

Umm, some say it might be fitting but not necessary for immaculateness. Is immaculateness a Jewish word, a Jewish concept ? Was there a prophecy of "immaculateness’ ? Was there a tradition of it’s expectation ? Are there not Jewish terms and Jewish rites for sanctification ? Mary was a Jew right? Just trying to keep it in context, and not something some gentile Christians put terminology to a couple hundred years later.

 

[pocohombre]

Extra bibical? Like your whole bible-only belief that you hold on to? How strange the early church never once bothered to mention SS as a vital belief at any council?

You are sorry for being biblical? I do not find it biblical,but a poor biblical exegesis on your part. Cannot really blame you.

So it is traditional.(Marian doctrine)

 

[pocohombre]

It is difficult when one suffers from spiritual pride.

I’ll take the harsh judgement for being universal, for believing what CC, Orthodox and Protestants believe in common about the Blessed Mary.

 

[pocohombre]

Of course,you a mere finite creature no more than an Eternal-infinite God? It is a no brainer who to believe…

Agreed. Truth will testify of itself, beyond ourselves.

 

[pocohombre]

What Blessed Mary Ever Virgin is - is **because **of Christ.

Of course all blessing is because and thru Christ

Do you really not see the significance of a woman carrying Christ in her womb? Is it really that common for you?

Of course i do.Where did i say the contrary ?

God chose Mary out of all the billions of women in human history to carry His only begotten Son. Is it not a Blessing above all women?

Agreed, the way you put it. She was blessed amongst women ,to carry the child,unique in history.

Death through Eve, Life through Mary.

Well, death from first Adam and life from second Adam for sure.

Your comments are not only belittling but dismissive as well :

Yet i just pretty much agreed with everything you just said.

 

[PRmerger]

Why is your breath offensive to your wife? But seriously I have sadly only read Job once. I could have sworn Job was quoted in Mark and Rom.

So is your criterion for something being inspired that it must be quoted in the NT?

If so, you do know that I’m going to give you a whole list of books that are in your Bible that are never quoted in the NT…

Epistle of Barnabas Chapter14 “Yes [it is even so]; but let us inquire if the Lord has really given that testament which He swore to the fathers that He would give to the people. He did give it; but they were not worthy to receive it, on account of their sins. For the prophet declares… And Moses understood that they had again made molten images; and he threw the tables out of his hands, and the tables of the testament of the Lord were broken. Moses then received it, but they proved themselves unworthy. Learn now how we have received it.”

I am pretty sure he is trying to say that the Jews never received the covenant of the Lord and that Jesus came with the covenant that the Jews should have had but Moses broke them. I could be wrong but isn’t this a direct contradiction of Exodus34:1-28. Maybe if it was just a seemingly contradictory thing I could let this go.

Barnabas Chapter15 He claims that Jews were not keeping the sabbath because the sabbath should start 6000 years after God started making the world and it should last until 7000 years and after this God will begin a new world. Talk about a misunderstand of the word of God. I am sure that God would have explained this to Moses. This chapter is preposterous.

Again, Protestor, you cannot say, “It says something that’s not found in Scripture, therefore it cannot be Scripture”

for that is circular.

IF there is something that is inspired, you have to believe it, whether you agree with it or not.

Thus, IF Barnabas was an inspired text, then you would have to believe it because that’s what the inspired book says.

What you are doing is like saying, “Did you read the part in the Gospel of Mark about Jesus rising from the dead? I stopped reading after that because clearly it wasn’t inspired!”

You have to give some OTHER way for you to know that something doesn’t belong in the Bible, except by saying, “It says things that aren’t found in the Bible.”

That’s a tautology and not helpful at all.

 

[Isaiah45_9]

Of course all blessing is because and thru Christ Of course i do.Where did i say the contrary ?
Agreed, the way you put it. She was blessed amongst women ,to carry the child,unique in history.
Well, death from first Adam and life from second Adam for sure.

Yet i just pretty much agreed with everything you just said.

You weren’t agreeing with what others were saying, which is pretty much the same as I did.

Further,

St. Paul says in Ephesians 4:7:

But grace was given to each of us according to the measure of Christ’s gift.

So when we contrast this with the Archangel Gabriel salutation in Luke:

Hail Full of Grace.

If each of us is given a measure of grace according to Christ, and Mary is full of grace - meaning that there is no more grace to receive because it is full. Then not only is she blessed among women, but her graces surpass even those of men. Or do we have any other record of another one of us being full of grace?

She was given more grace than you and me and any other person I am aware of.

 

[pocohombre]

You weren’t agreeing with what others were saying,

Correct, i almost said so at the end of my post, but agreed, I disagree with what others said.

which is pretty much the same as I did.

No, you did not say what others said, though you probably could, but not in the post i responded to. You did not say what others said. They said much more.

Further,
St. Paul says in Ephesians 4:7:
But grace was given to each of us according to the measure of Christ’s gift.
So when we contrast this with the Archangel Gabriel salutation in Luke:
Hail Full of Grace.
If each of us is given a measure of grace according to Christ, and Mary is full of grace - meaning that there is no more grace to receive because it is full. Then not only is she blessed among women, but her graces surpass even those of men. Or do we have any other record of another one of us being full of grace?
She was given more grace than you and me and any other person I am aware of.

Understand.Thank you. Something to think about…yet Paul says grace is in measure towards a “gifting”. Grace is in relation to the gift. It does not extend beyond the gift necessarily. Mary was full of grace, could receive no more, in relation to carrying the Christ child. and rearing him. She was full for the mission. What does that mean? Was it necessary to mean ever virgin, IC, even sinless, or Assumption ? Don’t get that from “full”. Fitting maybe, neat, but full proof essential for dogamtizing, no in my opinion… The other idea could be that “full” refers also to the gift of Christ, that that in iteslf can be no greater, the gift is the greatest gift-Christ himself…Thirdly Paul mentions measure, which does not count out the idea that one, or some can be full, that is fully equipped to accomplish mission or gifting. It also may be comparative to each other, yet my measure may be full for me and your measure may be full for you. We are told to be filled, even to keep refilling as in fully, with the Holy Spirit. …But thank you for the thought provoking post.

 

[Peter_J]

You weren’t agreeing with what others were saying, which is pretty much the same as I did.

I’m not sure what that means, but I have to confess that even I was scratching my head at your post, “Do you really not see the significance of a woman carrying Christ in her womb?”

 

[Isaiah45_9]

I’m not sure what that means, but I have to confess that even I was scratching my head at your post, “Do you really not see the significance of a woman carrying Christ in her womb?”

God made flesh, taking Mary’s blood and skin and dna.

 

[Peter_J]

God made flesh, taking Mary’s blood and skin and dna.

So why did you say “Do you really not see the significance of a woman carrying Christ in her womb?” Did pocohombre say that he doesn’t see the significance? (I *don’t *mean that as a rhetorical question: I haven’t read every post on this thread, so I may have missed it.)

 

[Isaiah45_9]

Understand.Thank you. Something to think about…yet Paul says grace is in measure towards a “gifting”. Grace is in relation to the gift. It does not extend beyond the gift necessarily. Mary was full of grace, could receive no more, in relation to carrying the Christ child. and rearing him. She was full for the mission. What does that mean? Was it necessary to mean ever virgin, IC, even sinless, or Assumption ? Don’t get that from “full”. Fitting maybe, neat, but full proof essential for dogamtizing, no in my opinion… The other idea could be that “full” refers also to the gift of Christ, that that in iteslf can be no greater, the gift is the greatest gift-Christ himself…Thirdly Paul mentions measure, which does not count out the idea that one, or some can be full, that is fully equipped to accomplish mission or gifting. It also may be comparative to each other, yet my measure may be full for me and your measure may be full for you. We are told to be filled, even to keep refilling as in fully, with the Holy Spirit. …But thank you for the thought provoking post.

Right, Christ is the greatest gift!

But there is more! Christ took on Mary’s blood and dna in His human form.

Moses had to take his sandals off when he approached the burning bush (Ex 3:5).
Isaiah had his lips cleaned with a burning coal because he saw the Lord of Hosts (Is. 6)

How much more magnificent is to be impregnated by the Holy Spirit with the Living Word of God?

You asked, What does it mean to be full of grace? And it is a great question. The question in response is: Do you really want to know?