Personal conscience vs. encyclical instruction

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kjvail:
Objectively stated there is a difference between scripture and an encyclical. I don’t know how *much *of a difference tho, that’s kind of the point of my question LOL.
Peter’s NT epistles are inspired writings. Peter added to the deposit of faith when he taught that the Gentiles could enter the Church.

Encyclicals are not inspired writings, and no encyclical can add anything to the deposit of the faith. The pope’s charism of infallibility only keeps the pope from misleading the church by teaching errors that would contradict the truths found in the deposit of faith. The can pope reminds us of what is in the deposit of faith, and the pope can make explicit what is implicit in the deposit of faith. But the pope can’t add to the deposit of faith.

The original post involves the erroneous idea that the papal teaching in Humanae Vitae can be safely ignored because Humanae Vitae is an encyclical. First, a rather good argument can be made that in Humanae Vitae the pope is speaking ex cathedra. Second, even if the pope is not speaking ex cathedra, he is using the full power of his teaching office to affirm that it is an infallible teaching of the ordinary universal magisterium that practicing artificial sterilization is gravely sinful.

There is a weird idea that many Catholics hold that their conscience is the ultimate temporal authority that must be obeyed, and that they can ignore the Church’s teaching about the sinfulness of artificial contraception as long as they are “prayerful” before they blow off Church teaching. :rolleyes:

The Protestant concept of the priesthood of all believers is better named the papacy of all believers. Cafeteria Catholics are Protestants in the pews.
 
itsjustdave1988 & Matt16-18,

Thank you for scholarship and willingness to share. We have all benefited. I appreciate your time and effort.
 
SOGFPP,

YES, I would love to have a "Top Ten " list. For simple minded folks like me this would be a blessing to have the Church teaching organized and in laymans language to study and memorize.

This is an example of what I would like to see. This is not meant to be true, just a template to see things organized…

1. Deposit of Faith
a. Apostles Creed
b. The entire Bible and Sacred Tradition
c. …

Catholic Dogma
a. Procured abortion is a horrible evil.
b. Women cannot be ordained priests
c. …

Catholic Doctrine
a. Contraception is a sin
b. The Pope is infallible ex cathrada
c. …

Catholic Belief
a. Indulgences remit temproal punishment
b. Workers have the right to join labor unions
c. …

Catholic Practice
a. The Rosary is a good practice.
b. The sign of the cross is a good practice.

Again, I wrote these off the top of my head because there is no quick, easy reference endorsed by The Church except The Apostles Creed. I would have to dig through dozens of Encyclicals and the CCC. I just think a Top Ten list would be wonderful. Hope you can understand.
 
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chrisg93:
SOGFPP,

YES, I would love to have a "Top Ten " list.
The Ten Commandments and all of the rest of the Law were summarized by Jesus by the two great commandments of love. That is a good start. For everything else, I think this sums up what Catholics need to believe:

**Catechism of the Catholic Church

2051** The infallibility of the Magisterium of the Pastors extends to all the elements of doctrine, including moral doctrine, without which the saving truths of the faith cannot be preserved, expounded, or observed.
 
chrisg93

I wasn’t trying to be facetious in my last post. What you are asking seems like a reasonable thing, but how would we start? The Catholic Church has never declared through an ex cathedra papal statement, nor through an Ecumenical Council that God exists. But surely that is a foundational dogma of the Catholic Church, even if it has never been explicitly affirmed by an exercise of the extraordinary Magisterium.

But let us try to list some dogmas starting with “God exists” as the first dogma.
  1. God exists
  2. God is love
  3. God is just
  4. God is merciful
  5. God despises sin
  6. God desires that all men be save from sin
Do you see the problem? We are going to end up with thousands of doctrines if we precede in this manner. Now look at the problem that arises from this: it is a Catholic dogma that the Scriptures are the inspired word of God. How many dogmas could we pull out of the Bible if we were to try? It might not be an infinite number, but it would be a number beyond what anyone could ever memorize.

To do what you propose, we would have to create a numbered list of all possible dogmas, and then have some sort of way to winnow it down to the top ten. The number one dogma is certainly the dogma that God exists, which is a pretty trite thing to for a Catholic to say.

Christ understands that this approach is futile. That is why he established his church on men, not the Bible. Christ established in his church certain offices, and one of those offices is the teaching office of the Church (the Magisterium). Christ has set it up so that certain men hold the teaching office of his church, and when the living Magisterium teaches, Christ wants his flock to listen.

The living Magisterium is a very great gift from God, but many Catholics don’t seem to see it as such. All Protestants have rejected the authority of the living Magisterium, and what is the result? Thousand upon thousands of bickering, divided, and contentious sects that cannot all agree on one single thing – except their rejection of the living Magisterium. Certainly Christ knew what would happen if he didn’t establish a church that was hierarchical, patriarchal and authoritative. Without the living Magisterium, “Bible Churches” degenerate into the chaos of confusion that is Protestantism.

If Jesus wanted to give us a list, he would have picked a scribe to be his closest follower, instead of picking a fisherman and giving him the gift of the Holy Spirit and the charism of infallibility.
 
chrisg93

I was reflecting on your question a little more, since it is a question has come up in the RCIA class that I help teach. In a way, the Church has given us what you have asked for in the Catechism of the Catholic Church (although that document is not limited to your “top ten” criteria). The CCC is hardly a simple document though, and that is not surprising since it was developed for bishops. The Pope says this about the Catechism of the Catholic Church:This catechism is not intended to replace the local catechisms duly approved by the ecclesiastical authorities, the diocesan Bishops and the Episcopal Conferences, especially if they have been approved by the Apostolic See. It is meant to encourage and assist in the writing of new local catechisms, which take into account various situations and cultures, while carefully preserving the unity of faith and fidelity to catholic doctrine.

APOSTOLIC CONSTITUTION, FIDEI DEPOSITUM
For simple minded folks like me this would be a blessing to have the Church teaching organized and in laymans language to study and memorize.


I know what you mean! 😉

The pope has published the Catechism of the Catholic Church so that the bishops could use it as a reference for preparing local catechisms “which take into account various situations”. One “situation” is that the needs of RCIA adults, and the needs of grade school children are different. The Catechism of the Catholic Church isn’t really an appropriate Catechism for every situation. Personally, I would like to see an RCIA Catechism developed, a catechism that covers the salient points that need to be covered in a typical RCIA program, and is organized for the needs of an RCIA program.

For the catechetical needs of children, young adults, and adults, the older Baltimore Catechisms could be updated and reworked to include CCC paragraph numbers. I have some of the older Baltimore Catechisms that were written for various grade levels, and they are generally very good. There is no need to reinvent the wheel, we could update some of our older Catechisms and bring solid catechesis back to parish religious education programs.
 
Chris93,
there is no quick, easy reference endorsed by The Church except The Apostles Creed.
I agree with Matt16_18, the Catechism of the Catholic Church your best resource. It is a sure norm of Catholic teaching. Yet, it may not be the most concise summary of Catholic teaching that you are looking for.

Our RCIA progam gives out a little red booklet called *Handbook for Today’s Catholics, *(Liguori MO: Liguori Publications, 1994). It presents the most basic Catholic beliefs, practices, and prayers, and it is fully indexed to the CCC. However, with every concise summary, you invariably lose details.

I also recommend *Credo of the People of God *by Pope Paul VI. It is a longer creed, shorter catechism. It is a “quick, easy reference” of greater detail than the Apostle’s Creed yet more concise than the CCC. It’s a pretty good “Catholicism 101” summary of Catholic dogma. You can read it here:
newadvent.org/docs/pa06cr.htm

I also enjoy the Catechism of Pope St. Pius X. It too is more concise than the CCC yet of greater detail the Pope Paul VI’s *Credo. *It can be read online here:
cin.org/users/james/ebooks/master/pius/pindex.htm

The Baltimore Catechism series are arranged on a progressive path leading up to Part Four which includes an extensive Explanation of the Baltimore Catechism. They are intended to be used as follows:

No. 1 for First Communion classes.
catholic.net/teaching_the_faith/template_article.phtml?channel_id=14&article_id=821

No. 2 for Confirmation classes.
catholic.net/teaching_the_faith/template_article.phtml?channel_id=14&article_id=822

No. 3 for two years´ course for Post-Confirmation classes.
catholic.net/teaching_the_faith/template_article.phtml?channel_id=14&article_id=823

No. 4 for Teachers and Teachers´ Training classes.
catholic.net/teaching_the_faith/template_article.phtml?channel_id=14&article_id=869
 
Hi Matt.

Some great points! Especially the RCIA situation, and the grade school situation. Also you have a great point that something like this would help bring solid catechesis back to parish religious education programs.

Off the top of my head I thought of one other advantage too. It would be a reminder of some things that we don’t know or have forgotten about. A couple of examples - I have to admit that I haven’t thought about indulgences for a long time, until I wrote it in my post. Second, how many Catholics know that The Church gives workers the right to join a labor union? Wasn’t their an encyclical that said private property is a good thing? Wasn’t there an encyclical that said something about priests in Latin America doing,or not doing, something? How about IVF and cloning? Anyway, there are lots of Church teachings Catholics don’t even know about or forget, me included.

With todays computer technology it would be a lot easier to compile and distribute. I read “Catholicism for Dummy’s” and they were right.

Thanks,
Chris G
 
Also, the Knights of Columbus offer several online courses for free.

The Luke E. Hart Series (authored by Peter Kreeft) is very good. You can review the material here:
kofc.org/publications/cis/publications/hart/list.cfm
You can sign up for the course here:
kofc.org/publications/cis/courses/HARTCOURSES/login.cfm

The Veritas Series can be reviewed here:
kofc.org/publications/cis/publications/veritas/list.cfm
You can sign up for the course here:
kofc.org/publications/cis/courses/CISCOURSES/login.cfm
 
Hey all,

This is a really great thread. Thanks, Dave, for the reference the the KC site.

Cordially,

Ferd
 
Christ93,
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chrisg93:
itsjustdave1988,

I think what JAVELIN is asking is a great question. you seem very knowledgeable, maybe you can answer it.

What is the “ranking” of moral authority in the Church? I ask the same question in a somewhat different way - The CCC90 says there is a hierarchy of Truth, but doesn’t explain it. I know the highest truth is The Deposit of Faith, but what’s next? Dogma?Doctrine? Practice? Tennent?

Does the Church teaching on the Rosary carry the same weight as Christ divinity? Are the feast days of the Saints infallible. What’s infallable and what is not? How does conscience play a part?

Can you enlighten us? it would be much appreciated.
I believe you may have a incorrect understanding what “hierarchy of truths” means. You seem to want to build a list that is ranked by truthfulness. That is not how the Church teaches “hierarchy of truths.” Either something is true or it is not. Nothing within the “hierarchy of truths” is untrue. The ranking is not with regard to truthfulness, but with regard to how one dogma relates to another within the one deposit of faith.

Regarding the “hierarchy of truths,” the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, in its Mysterium Ecclesiae (1973), explained: “It is true that there exists an order and as it were a hierarchy of the Church’s dogmas, as a result of their varying relationship to the foundation of the Faith. This hierarchy means that some dogmas are founded on other dogmas which are the principal ones, and are illuminated by these latter. But all dogmas, since they are revealed, must be believed with the same divine faith” (no. 4).
 
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javelin:
I was an RCIA sponsor one year, and a nun taught something that didn’t sit right with me. When “ranking” the moral authorities in a Catholic’s life, she ranked “personal conscience” above everything except core dogma – ranking it higher that Papal encyclicals. One obvious ramification of this is how one approaches contraception. She said very emphatically that the guidance of the Church on abstaining from artificial contraception was not an infallible teaching, since it is grounded in encyclicals, and therefore “personal conscience” takes precedence.

She wasn’t saying that everyone should go out and use contraception, by any means. She said that instructions and guidelines laid out in encyclicals should be taken very seriously, but if a Catholic approached a situation in serious prayer and reflection, and came away feeling that contraceptive use in a particular case was justified, then it was not sinful – an example of “personal conscience” taking precedence over the teachings in an encyclical.

This particular religious woman was late middle-aged, very well educated, and extremely well respected in the Diocese.

I’m interested to know what people think on the matter, obviously one of some importance. I’m certain I know what the general opinion is going to be, but I’d like to know who can find specific information regarding the “ranking” of moral authority in the Church.

God bless,
javelin
A past Pope said…“Conscience is a pupil, not a teacher”.
 
I have a few thoughts and comments intended to pull this back a little closer to the original topic, although I have greatly appreciated everyone’s (name removed by moderator)ut and further questioning in this discussion.

The original question was not meant to convey that the nun taught that we need simply pray about any moral decision and then do what we think is best. She clearly stated that the teaching was morally binding and assent required in the vast majority of cases. She did, however, also clearly believe that there were cases, however rare, where the use of artificial contraception was OK. She also counciled that if anyone truly believed they may be in such a situation, they should first seek spiritual direction and dispensation from a recognized member of the clergy.

So she was not being terrible renegade in her guidance, but when I asked, she said that she and the pastor of the parish had granted such dispensation more than once.

Again, this never sat right with me, which is why, 4 years later, I’m still looking for clarification :).

This leads to another important question. It is my understanding that an infallible moral teaching also carries no exceptions. Is that, indeed, true? Here are some real-life scenarios to consider:
  1. This one is personal. After the birth of our second child, it was found that my wife was in need of an immunization booster (MMR, I believe). We were told that for three or four months after the booster, my wife was NOT to get pregnant, as the immunization would cause birth defects and potential death to the child. The doctor strongly encouraged birth control pills (progesterone only) to help regulate my wife’s hormone levels after childbirth and to prevent pregnancy during the dangerous months. I’m certain our approach to this was OK, becasue we abstained as well. I believe the teaching is not that birth control medication is morally sinful, but that using it *for contraception *is. The question is, if it is medically dangerous for the child if a woman conceives, is birth contol potentially OK? If the answer is maybe, then how dangerous should it be before medication (or sterilization, for that matter) is a viable option?
  2. A woman my wife knows was recently diagnosed with a medical condition, and was told that because of the condition, it would be life-threatening for her and the baby if she were to become pregnant. This woman is in her late 20s, and already has two healthy children. The condition has no cure. What is the Church’s position for this woman? Is she to abstain from marital relations for life? Risk both her life and the child’s by having relations using NFP? Or may it be morally acceptable in her situation to use artificial contraception or sterilization?
In any case, how does the Church weigh the importance and good of marital relations for the sake of the marriage covenant vs. the importance and good of being open to the life-giving nature of the act? I *know *the Church doesn’t teach that marital relations are only for the purpose of bearing children.

Along those lines, does intent matter? If one is required to take birth control medication for a medical need not related to conception, is total abstaintion then necessary? Is it OK to have relations during those times during a woman’s cycle when she would normally be infirtle while on birth control? All of this is assuming that the birth control is *not *abortifacient (sp?) in nature.

Thanks in advance for your (name removed by moderator)ut; there are a lot of questions here!

In Christ,
javelin
 
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javelin:
The original question was not meant to convey that the nun taught that we need simply pray about any moral decision and then do what we think is best. She clearly stated that the teaching was morally binding and assent required in the vast majority of cases. She did, however, also clearly believe that there were cases, however rare, where the use of artificial contraception was OK. She also counciled that if anyone truly believed they may be in such a situation, they should first seek spiritual direction and dispensation from a recognized member of the clergy.

So she was not being terrible renegade in her guidance, but when I asked, she said that she and the pastor of the parish had granted such dispensation more than once.

Again, this never sat right with me, which is why, 4 years later, I’m still looking for clarification :).

This leads to another important question. It is my understanding that an infallible moral teaching also carries no exceptions. Is that, indeed, true? Here are some real-life scenarios to consider:
  1. This one is personal. After the birth of our second child, it was found that my wife was in need of an immunization booster (MMR, I believe). We were told that for three or four months after the booster, my wife was NOT to get pregnant, as the immunization would cause birth defects and potential death to the child. The doctor strongly encouraged birth control pills (progesterone only) to help regulate my wife’s hormone levels after childbirth and to prevent pregnancy during the dangerous months. I’m certain our approach to this was OK, becasue we abstained as well. I believe the teaching is not that birth control medication is morally sinful, but that using it *for contraception *is. The question is, if it is medically dangerous for the child if a woman conceives, is birth contol potentially OK? If the answer is maybe, then how dangerous should it be before medication (or sterilization, for that matter) is a viable option?
  2. A woman my wife knows was recently diagnosed with a medical condition, and was told that because of the condition, it would be life-threatening for her and the baby if she were to become pregnant. This woman is in her late 20s, and already has two healthy children. The condition has no cure. What is the Church’s position for this woman? Is she to abstain from marital relations for life? Risk both her life and the child’s by having relations using NFP? Or may it be morally acceptable in her situation to use artificial contraception or sterilization?
In any case, how does the Church weigh the importance and good of marital relations for the sake of the marriage covenant vs. the importance and good of being open to the life-giving nature of the act? I *know *the Church doesn’t teach that marital relations are only for the purpose of bearing children.

Along those lines, does intent matter? If one is required to take birth control medication for a medical need not related to conception, is total abstaintion then necessary? Is it OK to have relations during those times during a woman’s cycle when she would normally be infirtle while on birth control? All of this is assuming that the birth control is *not *abortifacient (sp?) in nature.

Thanks in advance for your (name removed by moderator)ut; there are a lot of questions here!

In Christ,
javelin
Unless someone can prove to me otherwise, there is never a circumstance when one may commit an act which is intrinsically evil, if if good comes of it. The nun was and is wrong. Contraception is evil, it may never be done.

If a married couple needs to prevent a birth for a serious reason, then there is NFP or abstaining. That is it. Christ said pick up your cross and follow me, right?

No priest, bishop, cardinal, or pope has the authority to give someone a dispensation to commit an intrinsically evil act.
 
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javelin:
This leads to another important question. It is my understanding that an infallible moral teaching also carries no exceptions. Is that, indeed, true? Here are some real-life scenarios to consider:
  1. This one is personal. After the birth of our second child, it was found that my wife was in need of an immunization booster (MMR, I believe). We were told that for three or four months after the booster, my wife was NOT to get pregnant, as the immunization would cause birth defects and potential death to the child. The doctor strongly encouraged birth control pills (progesterone only) to help regulate my wife’s hormone levels after childbirth and to prevent pregnancy during the dangerous months. I’m certain our approach to this was OK, becasue we abstained as well. I believe the teaching is not that birth control medication is morally sinful, but that using it *for contraception *is. The question is, if it is medically dangerous for the child if a woman conceives, is birth contol potentially OK? If the answer is maybe, then how dangerous should it be before medication (or sterilization, for that matter) is a viable option?
  2. A woman my wife knows was recently diagnosed with a medical condition, and was told that because of the condition, it would be life-threatening for her and the baby if she were to become pregnant. This woman is in her late 20s, and already has two healthy children. The condition has no cure. What is the Church’s position for this woman? Is she to abstain from marital relations for life? Risk both her life and the child’s by having relations using NFP? Or may it be morally acceptable in her situation to use artificial contraception or sterilization?
In Christ,
javelin
  1. Birth control pills are not ok. They have their own medical dangers and often destroy life. In this case, as you did, take the abstain route.
  2. This case is extremely rare. I would get further opinions and do more research on the condition before absolutely cutting off the possiblility of life. However, the Church allows for NFP in these situations. Remember, the fertile period is a very small window within the month so this may also involve some sacraficial abstinence for a particular week or 10 days. Uniting this to Christ, putting complete faith in God, and He will take care of you. If you do right by Him, He will guide your ways.
We don’t always have the right answers. This is why God guides us through the Church. I know from personal experience that the medical community is often wrong and that following God’s way always works.
 
javelin

She did, however, also clearly believe that there were cases, however rare, where the use of artificial contraception was OK. She also counciled that if anyone truly believed they may be in such a situation, they should first seek spiritual direction and dispensation from a recognized member of the clergy. So she was not being terrible renegade in her guidance, but when I asked, she said that she and the pastor of the parish had granted such dispensation more than once.

No priest has the authority to give a “dispensation” to commit mortal sin.

I believe the teaching is not that birth control medication is morally sinful, but that using it for contraception is.

I believe that would be correct IF there was some disease that is curable only by taking birth control pills.

The question is, if it is medically dangerous for the child if a woman conceives, is birth contol potentially OK?

No. If a pregnancy equals a death sentence for a woman, her husband should love his wife enough to restrain from risking her life by having sexual relations with her. No artificial contraception regime is 100% effective. If pregnancy truly equaled a death sentence, then a wife having sexual relations while using artificial contraception would be like playing Russian Roulette. What kind of man would want to put his wife through that kind of emotional stress? Sex under those conditions would have no unitive aspect to it.
  • A woman my wife knows was recently diagnosed with a medical condition, and was told that because of the condition, it would be life-threatening for her and the baby if she were to become pregnant. This woman is in her late 20s, and already has two healthy children. The condition has no cure. What is the Church’s position for this woman? Is she to abstain from marital relations for life? Risk both her life and the child’s by having relations using NFP? Or may it be morally acceptable in her situation to use artificial contraception or sterilization?*
Same answer as above. One would be committing a mortal sin to surgically sterilize themselves to avoid a pregnancy. All pregnancy potentially puts a woman’s life at risk.

If one is required to take birth control medication for a medical need not related to conception, is total abstention then necessary?

What disease is cured by taking birth control pills?
 
She did, however, also clearly believe that there were cases, however rare, where the use of artificial contraception was OK.
If she did believe this, she did so in opposition to the teachings of the authentic Magisterium.

If artificial contraception is intended to be used as contraception, it’s use is alway intrinsically evil according to Catholic moral theology. As such, there is never a licit occasion in which artificial birth control was “ok.” There are priest out there that think this is “dispensatable” but they too are incorrect, according to the Teaching Church.
So she was not being terrible renegade in her guidance, but when I asked, she said that she and the pastor of the parish had granted such dispensation more than once.
Then they are terrible renegades. (for one, SHE cannot grant dispensation, as she has no faculties to do so).
This leads to another important question. It is my understanding that an infallible moral teaching also carries no exceptions. Is that, indeed, true?
Correctly understood, yes. However, ethical principles such as the principle of double effect must also be considered when attempting to understand whether an act is licit in accordance with Catholic moral theology. Nonetheless, “it is never lawful, even for the gravest reasons, to do evil that good may come of it” (Paul VI, Humanae Vitae).
If it is medically dangerous for the child if a woman conceives, is birth contol potentially OK? If the answer is maybe, then how dangerous should it be before medication (or sterilization, for that matter) is a viable option?
This would be an instance where the principle of double effect is often considered. When only the choice of two or more evils is possible, the lesser of the evils must be chosen. However, in the above situation, contrary to pro-contraception assertions, there’s another choice that is not an evil. Abstain from having sex. Except for Mary, nobody that I know of has become pregnant without sex.

Consider also the following: No birth control is 100% effective. NFP is just as effective as the most effective non-abortificant artificial contraceptive. The principle of double effect does not come into consideration in the above situation, as NFP is not an instrinsic evil. You cannot ethically choose an intrinsically evil option (e.g., the pill) when you have a non-instrinsic evil as a licit alternative.
What is the Church’s position for this woman? Is she to abstain from marital relations for life? Risk both her life and the child’s by having relations using NFP?
Given the choice of NFP or non-abortificant articial birth control, she must choose the former (NFP), not the latter, according to Catholic moral theology. NFP, being just as effective as the latter, is not an intrinsically evil means of regulating birth.

Furthermore, a woman may licitly become sterilized if the intent of the sterilization is not for contraception, but to remove a risk to the life of the woman (e.g., cancer of the uterous).
Along those lines, does intent matter?
Yes.

Let’s say a woman with cancer of the uterous was determined to be pregnant already. The doctor recommends removal of the uterous in order to save the life of the woman. Removal of the uterous has an UNINTENDED evil effect, that is, the death of the unborn fetus. Within Catholic moral norms, it is licit to proceed with such an action so long at the death of the unborn fetus was not intended. The rule of thumb: would you have removed the uterous even if she was not pregnant? If the answer is yes, then the death of the unborn fetus is truly an unintended evil effect.

I can give you source info when I get home from work if you would like support for the above as being in accord with Catholic moral theology.
 
The conditions for applying the principle of double effect are as follows:
  1. the act itself cannot be evil (removal of the cancerous uterous)
  2. the bad effect is not a “means” of obtaining the good; (the death of the fetus did not remove the cancer)
  3. the bad effect must not be the intended, but must be merely tolerated (the death of the fetus was unintended)
  4. the good is sufficient to outweigh the bad.
 
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itsjustdave1988:
The conditions for applying the principle of double effect are as follows:
  1. the act itself cannot be evil (removal of the cancerous uterous)
  2. the bad effect is not a “means” of obtaining the good; (the death of the fetus did not remove the cancer)
  3. the bad effect must not be the intended, but must be merely tolerated (the death of the fetus was unintended)
  4. the good is sufficient to outweigh the bad.
Your last two posts are some of the best I have read. They are clear and concise. Do you have advanced training in moral theology?
 
Fix,

Why, thank you. 🙂

While I was a lapsed Catholic, I went to Gonzaga University to study engineering. The Jesuits there forced me to take some philosophy and religion. Good thing too, cuz I caught a theology bug and have been studying theology ever since (on my own, not formally). Ever since then, I’ve continued to search, sometime in the most aweful places, for the voice of God, most often ignoring it when I stumbled across it. I was very much a dissenting Catholic, if I could be called a Catholic at all. I remember reading a lot of books by Fr. Charles Curran and being sucked into his argument.

However, I kept searching, and God kept sending me his holy promptings until I returned to the Catholic Church. Now, since I used to be a “dissenting” Catholic, I understand the arguments they use to justify their dissent. Yet, I now see them as terribly flawed, where before they were my rationalization for sinful behavior. http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon9.gif

All of my Catholic studies since Gonzaga (15 years ago http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon11.gif ) has been self-study. However, my wife and I started a Master’s of Religious Studies program together last year, from Catholic Distance University ([/www.cdu.edu](http://www.cdu.edu/) ). It’s outstanding, so if you can find the opportunity (and resources) to take some correspondence classes from them, I recommend it.
 
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