Personal interpretation clause

[Randy_Carson]

The priesthood is not necessary which is why there is no instructions in the NT for a second earthly priesthood.

Did the OT priesthood make God indebted to man? Clearly there was an OT of God’s own creation, and it had three levels: the high priest at the top, the ministerial priesthood in the middle and the nation of Israel at the bottom.

If that top level of high priest in the Old Testament corresponds to a high priest in the New Testament, and if that bottom level of universal priests in the Old Testament corresponds to a universal priesthood in the New Testament, then the middle, ministerial priesthood in the Old Testament corresponds to a middle, ministerial priesthood in the New Testament as well.

The Bible clearly states that all Christians are priests, it said the same thing about the Israelites, yet this did not prevent there from being a separate, ministerial priesthood even before the Law of Moses was given.

Furthermore, since the top, Old Testament office of high priest corresponds to Jesus, the New Testament high priest, and since the bottom, Old Testament universal priesthood corresponds to the New Testament universal priesthood, the middle, ministerial priesthood in the Old Testament corresponds to a middle, ministerial priesthood in the New Testament.

This priesthood is identical with the office of elder. In fact, the term “priest” is simply a shortened, English version of the Greek word for “elder,” as any dictionary will confirm.
The office is sacramental because it is charged with administering the sacraments.

The New Testament singles out the sacraments of holy anointing and confession in particular, though it is also charged with administering the other sacraments, such as baptism and communion, or the Eucharist as the Bible calls it.

The office is also sacramental because one receives it through the sacrament of orders or ordination. Paul discussed this sacrament in his letters to Timothy, in which he instructed the young evangelist to stir up the gift that had been given him through the laying on of the Apostle’s hands, and in which he instructed him not to lay hands on other people quickly, but to ordain them only after their character had been proven.

from:

The Priesthood Debate
By James Akin
ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/PRIEST3.HTM

 

[Jerry_Marino]

 

[donalddon5]

GOD IS NOT DEPENDANT UPON MAN FOR ANYTHING. GOD WILL NEVER BE A DEBTOR TO ANY MAN.

Any theology that has God dependant upon man is the wrong theology. Any theology that makes God a liar is from the devil for the devil is the father of all lies.

When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. [John 8:44]

Because it is the Holy Spirit which lead me to the Holy Roman Catholic Church and not man, I can believe nothing else and that makes you of Satan. As far as I am concerned it is you who are of the great lie which is called Protestant. Second to none other then Psychology. You and your Holy Roly Religion which tries to water down Christianity by doing away with all that great man like the Apostles Peter, James, John, Paul and the many other religious man for your own self-serving version of Christianity.At best Protestants religion is nothing but a cheap version of Christianity and that is even debatable. I can say that the Roman Catholic has 2000 years of Christianity and has remain faithful to the Lord for 2000 years. What are Protestants? Nothing but rebellious man that have decided to follow (most unknowing because of people like you) a man whom decided to rebel against the church just as Judas rebel against Jesus; Oh, but it is better that man was never born; You have willing chosen to follow your own doctrine instead of the faithful doctrines of the Church which is back up by the BLOOD of the Saints and it is you Sir which will burn in the Fires of Hell.

 

[donalddon5]

Because it is the Holy Spirit which lead me to the Holy Roman Catholic Church and not man, I can believe nothing else and that makes you of Satan. As far as I am concerned it is you who are of the great lie which is called Protestant. Second to none other then Psychology. You and your Holy Roly Religion which tries to water down Christianity by doing away with all that great man like the Apostles Peter, James, John, Paul and the many other religious man for your own self-serving version of Christianity.At best Protestants religion is nothing but a cheap version of Christianity and that is even debatable. I can say that the Roman Catholic has 2000 years of Christianity and has remain faithful to the Lord for 2000 years. What are Protestants? Nothing but rebellious man that have decided to follow (most unknowing because of people like you) a man whom decided to rebel against the church just as Judas rebel against Jesus; Oh, but it is better that man was never born; You have willing chosen to follow your own doctrine instead of the faithful doctrines of the Church which is back up by the BLOOD of the Saints and it is you Sir which will burn in the Fires of Hell.

 

[donalddon5]

donalddon5:
And further-more it is you Sir which have blasphemy against the works of the Holy Spirit and you which have call the works of the Holy Spirit “Beelzebub” (Matthew 12:24). And as the scripture says about Protestants “Every kingdom divided against itself will be laid to waste and not town or house divided against itself will stand” That is your religion; divided against itself and why? Because the Protestants have no organization which holds it together, It is like any rebellious people and constantly fighting amongst itself and divided until it can no longer be divided and is conquer.

 

[donalddon5]

GOD IS NOT DEPENDANT UPON MAN FOR ANYTHING. GOD WILL NEVER BE A DEBTOR TO ANY MAN.

Any theology that has God dependant upon man is the wrong theology. Any theology that makes God a liar is from the devil for the devil is the father of all lies.

When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. [John 8:44]

Now notice that in Mark 3:30 Jesus is very specific about what exactly they did to commit "the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

And You Sir have blasphemes against the holy Spirit and will never receive forgiveness, but are guilty of an everlasting sin. for you have said that I have an unclean spirit.

Amen, Amen, and Amen to your Scripture quotes. But unlike you I am a firm scriptural believer and not just a scriptural selector. It is the Holy Spirit which dictates which verse to quote and not a set of rules such as man puts before you Protestants. You have the same old arguments and quote the same scripture and keep saying the same thing time and time again until you have led the very elect themselves from Christ. You are lead to **HELL **by yourself and like the pharisees led many more to HELL.

 

[donalddon5]

The priesthood is not necessary which is why there is no instructions in the NT for a second earthly priesthood.

… who has first given to Him And it shall be repaid to him? [Rom 11:25]

God will never be indebted to any man. Any theology that puts any man before God is a blasphemous theology. Any theology that makes God a liar is a blasphemous theology. Catholic theology does this on many levels.

A blasphemous theology is one which rebels against the Elect of Christ and that you unmistakably do . The Roman Catholic Church does not make God out to be anything, it is God which makes the Roman Catholic Church through the sacrifice of his Son’s precious blood and that is why he is called the Lamb of God; just as the old priests of yesterday(Hebrew) offer up the sacrifice the Lamb, today the Priest of the Church offer up the Lamb. That is not blasphemy but Tradition.

The protestant version must be a lot different. In the NAB Roman 11:25 says I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers, so that you will not become wise[in] your own estimation: a hardening has come upon Israel in part, until the full number of the Gentiles comes in,

Well, let us see what the bible says about that:

Roman 13:1

• Let every person be subordinate to the higher authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been established by God. Therefore, whoever resists authority opposes what God has appointed, and those who opposes it will bring judgment upon themselves.

And the Protestants are in violation of this law(scripture). To put it mildly, Your daughters shall eat their own after-birth and the flesh of their children.

 

[BereanRuss]

Until you prove this charge, I say that you are bearing false witness against your Catholic brothers and sisters - a grave sin.

I agree that this is a serious charge and I do not bring it up lightly.

If I could show you where Catholic theology makes God a liar, would would it cause you to reevaluate Catholicism or would you continue to hold to the teachings of the RCC even if doing so requires the very words of Jesus to be false?

If our theology requires the words of Jesus to be a lie, should we change the meaning of Jesus’ words or should we change our theology?

 

[BereanRuss]

Priests (presbuteroi) are also known as “presbyters” or “elders.” In fact, the English term “priest” is simply a contraction of the Greek word presbuteros. They have the responsibility of teaching, governing, and providing the sacraments in a given congregation (1 Tim. 5:17; Jas. 5:14–15).

The word in Greek for priest is “hiereus(2409)” not “presbuteros”. A presbuteros is an elder and could never offer sacrifices for the people. Only a hiereus has the office of priest and the authority of offer sacrifice for the people. While the word hiereus is used often in reference to the Jewish and pagan priests in the NT, it is never used to refer to any person in the Church except Jesus.

 

[BereanRuss]

Seems that the early Church knew all about “New Testament Priests.”

Again, presbuteros means “overseer”, not “priest”.

 

[BereanRuss]

Did the OT priesthood make God indebted to man? Clearly there was an OT of God’s own creation, and it had three levels: the high priest at the top, the ministerial priesthood in the middle and the nation of Israel at the bottom.

If that top level of high priest in the Old Testament corresponds to a high priest in the New Testament, and if that bottom level of universal priests in the Old Testament corresponds to a universal priesthood in the New Testament, then the middle, ministerial priesthood in the Old Testament corresponds to a middle, ministerial priesthood in the New Testament as well.

God established the OT priesthood as a temporary means of covering the sins of the people until Jesus offered Himself, once for all.

The New Covenant cannot be compared to the Old because there are no longer any sacrifices to be offered for the remission of sins. Therefore, there is no need for an earthly priesthood.

 

[BereanRuss]

Because it is the Holy Spirit which lead me to the Holy Roman Catholic Church and not man, I can believe nothing else and that makes you of Satan. As far as I am concerned it is you who are of the great lie which is called Protestant. Second to none other then Psychology. You and your Holy Roly Religion which tries to water down Christianity by doing away with all that great man like the Apostles Peter, James, John, Paul and the many other religious man for your own self-serving version of Christianity.At best Protestants religion is nothing but a cheap version of Christianity and that is even debatable. I can say that the Roman Catholic has 2000 years of Christianity and has remain faithful to the Lord for 2000 years. What are Protestants? Nothing but rebellious man that have decided to follow (most unknowing because of people like you) a man whom decided to rebel against the church just as Judas rebel against Jesus; Oh, but it is better that man was never born; You have willing chosen to follow your own doctrine instead of the faithful doctrines of the Church which is back up by the BLOOD of the Saints and it is you Sir which will burn in the Fires of Hell.

Donald,

Every man is a liar, myself included. But the word of God is true as Jesus has taught us:

“Father, sanctify them by your truth. Your word is truth.”

Don’t believe me but also do not believe any man. Believe the word of God. Search these things out for yourself in your Bible.

“Test all things. Hold fast to that which is true.”

God bless you.

 

[BereanRuss]

donalddon5:

A blasphemous theology is one which rebels against the Elect of Christ and that you unmistakably do . The Roman Catholic Church does not make God out to be anything, it is God which makes the Roman Catholic Church through the sacrifice of his Son’s precious blood and that is why he is called the Lamb of God; just as the old priests of yesterday(Hebrew) offer up the sacrifice the Lamb, today the Priest of the Church offer up the Lamb. That is not blasphemy but Tradition.

Donald,

I am searching for the truth just as you are. If I could find the RCC priesthood in the words of Jesus or in the words of the Apostles, I would be Catholic just as you.

I know you are upset at me but honestly I encourage you to search for the truth in the only place that man can find truth. I am a liar and if you are honest you are a liar as well (let God be true and every man a liar) but the RCC is also made up of fallible men just like you and me and every man is a liar according to the Bible.

The only place that we can find absolute truth in this life is in the word of God. If you believe what God teaches in His word, you have eternal life.

…as newborn babes, desire the pure milk of the word, that you may grow thereby… [1Pet 2:2]

 

[BereanRuss]

donalddon5:

The protestant version must be a lot different. In the NAB Roman 11:25 says I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers, so that you will not become wise[in] your own estimation: a hardening has come upon Israel in part, until the full number of the Gentiles comes in,

Sorry again, I meant Romans 11:35 not 25.

 

[BereanRuss]

Well, let us see what the bible says about that:

Roman 13:1

Let every person be subordinate to the higher authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been established by God. Therefore, whoever resists authority opposes what God has appointed, and those who opposes it will bring judgment upon themselves.

And the Protestants are in violation of this law(scripture). To put it mildly, Your daughters shall eat their own after-birth and the flesh of their children.

You are absolutely correct if the RCC priesthood was established by Jesus or by the Apostles. Please show me where Jesus or the Apostles established the RCC priesthood and I will honestly repent. I am not interested in protestantism. I am interested in the truth. The word of God is truth because it is impossible for God to lie.

 

[donalddon5]

GOD IS NOT DEPENDANT UPON MAN FOR ANYTHING. GOD WILL NEVER BE A DEBTOR TO ANY MAN.

Any theology that has God dependant upon man is the wrong theology. Any theology that makes God a liar is from the devil for the devil is the father of all lies.

When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. [John 8:44]

Your rebellious comments are noted forever.

As far as Scripture is concern here is my reply:

John 8:45-47
“But because I speak the truth, you do not believe me. Can any of you charge me with sin? If I am telling the truth, why do you not believe me? Whoever belongs to God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not listen, because you do not belong to God”

 

[Howie01]

Well, let us see what the bible says about that:

Roman 13:1

Let every person be subordinate to the higher authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been established by God. Therefore, whoever resists authority opposes what God has appointed, and those who opposes it will bring judgment upon themselves.

And the Protestants are in violation of this law(scripture). To put it mildly, Your daughters shall eat their own after-birth and the flesh of their children.

That passage refers to civil government authorities, and not to church authorities.

 

[donalddon5]

The priesthood is not necessary which is why there is no instructions in the NT for a second earthly priesthood.

… who has first given to Him And it shall be repaid to him? [Rom 11:25]

God will never be indebted to any man. Any theology that puts any man before God is a blasphemous theology. Any theology that makes God a liar is a blasphemous theology. Catholic theology does this on many levels.

You cursed fool. Did not the Apostles cast lots to see who was to take Judas the traitor place, did not they appoint persons of position in the early church. Why is it then that you can say there is not instructions? Not only instructions but better then that, examples of what is to be done.

Philippians 1:1 “Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the overseers and ministers:”

1 Timothy 3:1 “This saying is trustworthy: whoever aspires to the office of bishop desires a noble task.”

1 Timothy 3:10 “Moreover, they should be tested first; then if their is nothing against them, let them serve as deacons.” 1

Without Priests, How on earth can you continually preach Jesus? First you must hear the priest in order to believe then come Jesus. Why would Jesus send his disciples out to all nations and whom did they hear first? The PRIEST!

 

[donalddon5]

You are absolutely correct if the RCC priesthood was established by Jesus or by the Apostles. Please show me where Jesus or the Apostles established the RCC priesthood and I will honestly repent. I am not interested in protestantism. I am interested in the truth. The word of God is truth because it is impossible for God to lie.

Who is wanting you to Repent. I prefer you in the fires of hell.

 

[donalddon5]

Sorry again, I meant Romans 11:35 not 25.

Roman 11:35
Or who has given him anything that he may be repaid

It is beautiful poetic verse quoted from Jb 41 by Saint Paul or at least that is what the notes says in my NAB version, personally I think that the Holy Spirit gave the words to Saint Paul as same as he did to Job. There are way to many identical things in the Old Covenant in comparison to the New Covenant for anyone to have copy-cat, especially given that some of the things were prophecies long before the occurrences, such as Jesus birth and death.