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donalddon5
Guest
Let us see now. Will I follow where the Holy Spirit has led me or will I believe your interpretation?
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donalddon5
Guest
Let us break this down:
Every man is a liar, myself included. But the word of God is true as Jesus has taught us:
That is very true, but are you implying that once Jesus has taught us it becomes a lie when we repeat it.
“Father, sanctify them by your truth. Your word is truth.”
Indeed he has sanctify us by the truth, therefore he we can not possibly still be consider a liar when we repeat what he says.
Don’t believe me but also do not believe any man. Believe the word of God. Search these things out for yourself in your Bible.
You have manage that well, I do not believe you but I do believe those that he has sanctify.
“Test all things. Hold fast to that which is true.”
Thus you have been and found to be a liar and of the DEVIL.
God bless you.
He has and greatly but not via you.
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donalddon5
Guest
Protestants and “Bible only” Christians reject Ministerial priesthood because New Testament applies the title priest (Greek hiereus) only to Christ and to all believers. However Christianity in New Testament times was still a movement within Judaism (Acts 22:19 and 26:11). The first followers of Jesus both attended Jewish temple (Acts 2:46) and broke bread in their homes (Acts 2:46 and 20:7). Peter and John went to temple to pray (Acts 3:1) and so did Paul and others in Acts 21:26 to give offering and to announce the days of purification after performing ritual. While Catholics believe that Christ instituted Ministerial priesthood in the Last Supper, to Christians in the New Testament times the title priest meant Levitical priest of Judaism. Only after destruction of Jerusalem temple (c. 70 AD) and after Christianity broke away from Judaism, both happened after New Testament times the title priest was applied to bishops and presbyters. The earliest reference to three-level of priesthood (High priest, priests and Levites) among Christians was recorded in the 1 Clement (written c. 96 AD).
Those, therefore, who present their offerings at the appointed times, are accepted and blessed; for inasmuch as they follow the laws of the Lord, they sin not. For his peculiar are assigned to the high priest, and their own proper place is prescribed to the priests, and their own special ministrations devolve on the Levites. The layman is bound only by the laws that pertain to laymen.
1 Clement Chapter 40
Ignatius (died c. 107 AD), bishop of Antioch wrote that the celebrant of the Eucharist must be a bishop or one he has entrusted and that a bishop ministered as a priest to God.
Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it.
Ignatius, Epistle to Smyrnaeans 8
Nor is there any one in the Church greater than the bishop, who ministers as a priest to God for the salvation of the whole world. Nor, again, is there any one among rulers to be compared with the king, who secures peace and good order to those over whom he rules. He who honours the bishop shall be honoured by God, even as he that dishonours him shall be punished by God. For if he that rises up against kings is justly held worthy of punishment, inasmuch as he dissolves public order, of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who presumes to do anything without the bishop, thus both destroying the [Church’s] unity, and throwing its order into confusion? For the priesthood is the very highest point of all good things among men, against which whosoever is mad enough to strive, dishonours not man, but God, and Christ Jesus, the First-born, and the only High Priest, by nature, of the Father. Let all things therefore be done by you with good order in Christ. Let the laity be subject to the deacons; the deacons to the presbyters; the presbyters to the bishop; the bishop to Christ, even as He is to the Father.
Ignatius, Epistle to Smyrnaeans 9
Irenæus (c. 115 to 202), bishop of Lyon wrote that all apostles of Jesus were priests who served God and the altar continually.
And all the apostles of the Lord are priests, who do inherit here neither lands nor houses, but serve God and the altar continually.
Irenæus, Against Heresies 4.8.3
Tertullian (c. 160 to 230), bishop of Carthage referred bishops as chief priests or in Latin “summus sacerdos“. His successor, Cyprian (died c. 258), wrote that bishop is Christ priest and that presbyters are associated with the bishop in priestly honour. He also wrote that priests (bishops and presbyters) offer the same sacrifice Jesus offered to God the Father.
For concluding our brief subject, it remains to put you in mind also of the due observance of giving and receiving baptism. Of giving it, the chief priest (who is the bishop) has the right: in the next place, the presbyters and deacons, yet not without the bishop’s authority, on account of the honour of the Church, which being preserved, peace is preserved.
Tertullian, On Baptism 17
We understand, dearest brother, and we perceive with the whole light of our heart, the salutary and holy plans of the divine majesty, whence the sudden persecution lately arose there-whence the secular power suddenly broke forth against the Church of Christ and the bishop Cornelius, the blessed martyr, and all of you; so that, for the confusion and beating down of heretics, the Lord might show which was the Church-which is its one bishop chosen by divine appointment-which presbyters are associated with the bishop in priestly honour-which is the united and true people of Christ, linked together in the love of the Lord’s flock-who they were whom the enemy would harass; whom, on the other hand, the devil would spare as being his own.
Cyprian, Epistle 57 to Lucius, bishop of Rome 3
For if Jesus Christ, our Lord and God, is Himself the chief priest of God the Father, and has first offered Himself a sacrifice to the Father, and has commanded this to be done in commemoration of Himself, certainly that priest truly discharges the office of Christ, who imitates that which Christ did; and he then offers a true and full sacrifice in the Church to God the Father, when he proceeds to offer it according to what he sees Christ Himself to have offered.
Cyprian, Epistle 62 On the Sacrament of the Cup of the Lord 14
source: vivacatholic.wordpress.com/2007/08/07/the-early-christians-and-the-ministerial-priesthood/
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bradwill911
Guest
So, if we called priests, “bishop” or “presbyter” then they would be biblical? It seems that you are rather hung up on the job title.
Do you believe that Jesus is God? Can you tell me where the Bible states, “Jesus is God” or where Jesus states, “I am God”?
Do you believe in the Trinity? Please tell me where the Bible describes the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as the Trinity?
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donalddon5
Guest
There is no scipture reading that says that. You are like your fork-tongue father Lucifer.
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donalddon5
Guest
More of your ignorance. The New Covenant is confirm by the Old Covenant that is why the Apostles are constantly saying identical sayings through the Holy Spirit. Christianity has survive for 2000 years because of the priesthood which was establish by Christ.
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bradwill911
Guest
You are right that we do not offer any new sacrifices for the remission of sins. Good thing that the Catholic priest is not offering any new sacrifices for the remission of sin.
Here’s a quote from the USCCB:
“Jesus’ act belongs to human history, for he is truly human and has entered into history. At the same time, however, Jesus Christ is the Second Person of the Holy Trinity; he is the eternal Son, who is not confined within time or history. His actions transcend time, which is part of creation. “Passing through the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made by hands, that is, not belonging to this creation” (Heb 9:11), Jesus the eternal Son of God made his act of sacrifice in the presence of his Father, who lives in eternity. Jesus’ one perfect sacrifice is thus eternally present before the Father, who eternally accepts it. This means that in the Eucharist, Jesus does not sacrifice himself again and again. Rather, by the power of the Holy Spirit his one eternal sacrifice is made present once again, re-presented, so that we may share in it.”
usccb.org/dpp/realpresence.htm
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PJM
Guest
Hi Jerry, perhaps I can clarify your concern?
I’m assuming your speaking of Catholic “Holy Communion” when speaking of "offering up Christ?
Jerry, Catholic Holy Communion is “re-presenting”, that is presenting again and again in obedience the very command of Jesus to do so.(1 Cor. 11: and Mt.26:26)
This is now after Christ has died and arose from the dead so we are speaking of “an unbloody Sacrifice” but nevertheless the very same sacrifice." As the current Sacrifice is “unbloody” the sacrifice can and is complete and Perfect without the need for Chrsit to die again. Indeed Chirst died once for all.
Where your just a bit off track is who and how the sacrifice is offered.
It actually involves two consecutive Miracles, both by God.
The lesser miracle if we may call it that, actually transform the Celebrating Priest into “literally another Christ for the instant that the second miracle takes place.”
The process of the “Transubstanitation” where the Miracle of Miracles takes place, ordinary bread becomes the Real Body of Jesus, and ordinary wine becomes the Real Blood of Jesus, is to accomplished by God.
**
In TRUTH…
It is God (The Father)
Offering (God the Son) … So it God offering Himself who causes the sacrifice.
To God the Trinity (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.)
Thus the Miracle(s) are By God, Of God and for God.
The Priest / Bishop/ Cardnal / Pope are but conduits of Gods Mercy and power.
God CAUSES the Miracle and the priest “makes it happen.”**
Miracles are by there nature unexplainable by human thought. This Faith comes into “play” in accepting what Mt., Mk, lk., Jn., and even Paul speak about is detail, throughout the Bible. God can’t lie, so we know its TRUE, and God is a God of unlimited Power, so we know it to be believeable.
There is no greater reason to be a Catholic, for no where else on Earth, can we get a foretaste of Heaven, and be in the Real Presence of Jesus Christ, our God and Creator. Amen!
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donalddon5
Guest
Your theology obviously does require you to make Jesus out to be a liar. Now, should you change your personal theology. No–stay where you are at until you are cast into HELL. It is obvious that you have already been turn over to the devil but what is not so obvious is that it is not for correction.
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PJM
Guest
Friend I can’t promise you that I will renounce my faith, BUT on the other hand, I don’t believe you when you say “catholic Theology makes God a liar.” It is a Super Natural Contridiction of terms.
So please, share with us your **Exposé ** and at least allow us to respond to it.
After all, my friend, if you do have the TRUTH, what can we do:shrug:
It’s easy to make claims that can’t be supported,
By the way, I’m from Mars
Love and prayers, Pat
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Jerry_Marino
Guest
i am a priest (1 peter 2)
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PJM
Guest
My dear friend sometimes what ones does NOT KNOW is more dangerous than what one pretends to understand.
** 9" But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s own people, that you may declare the wonderful deeds of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. 10 Once you were no people but now you are God’s people; once you had not received mercy but now you have received mercy**
Friend , not only is Peter a Priest, He was the First Pope!
The identfying MARKS of the Catolic Church are:
**One, Holy, Catholic and Apolostolic.
All though “many are called, few are chosen!” Some accept God’s grace, others reject it. But friend that does not change that we are God’s chosen and holy people.
This means that “Mother Church” is has to be and will remain Holy, NOT the individual members of it. Although thousands upon thouands have died for their fait IN HOLINESS!**
Mt. 16:17 And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. 18* And I tell you, you are Peter, * and on this rock * I will build my church, and the powers of death * shall not prevail against it. 19* I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
1 Cor. 11: "23 For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, 24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, “This is my body which is for * you**. Do this in remembrance of me.” (with these words Jesus instituted the Catholic Priesthood!) **25 In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.” 26For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.
Lk. 22: "14* And when the hour came, he sat at table, and the apostles with him. 15* And he said to them, “I have earnestly desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer; 16* for I tell you I shall not eat it * until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God.” 17* And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he said, “Take this, and divide it among yourselves; 18* for I tell you that from now on I shall not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.” 19* And he took bread, and when he had given thanks he broke it and gave it to them, saying,** “This is my body which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me.”**
Heb. 5:" 5* So also Christ did not exalt himself to be made a high priest, but was appointed by him who said to him, “Thou art my Son, today I have begotten thee”; 6* as he says also in another place, “Thou art a priest for ever, after the order of Melchizedek.”
Rom.15:14 I myself am satisfied about you, my brethren, that you yourselves are full of goodness, filled with all knowledge, and able to instruct one another. 15 But on some points I have written to you very boldly by way of reminder, because of the grace given me by God 16* to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles in the priestly service of the gospel of God, so that the offering of the Gentiles may be acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit. 17 In Christ Jesus, then, I have reason to be proud of my work for God" (Applies to all Ordained to be Priest)
Love and prayers, Pat
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BereanRuss
Guest
Donald,
You are confusing priest with Apostles. Yes, we both agree that there were Apostles and that Jesus sent them out, etc.
Is it ok with Catholic.com that you continually condemn other bloggers to hell?
“Judge not lest you be judged” is what Jesus commands us.
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BereanRuss
Guest
Brad,
It not not about the title, it is about the function. Only a preist can offer sacrifices to God and no person in the church has the title of priest in the NT except Jesus and all believers as you pointed out.
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donalddon5
Guest
No confusion here. Confusion is of the Devil and that is your portion.
Why do you ask if it is OK with Catholic.com when you do not see authority in the Holy Roman Catholic Church? Personally I need no permission and it would take the act of a Bishop to silence me not a Priest. Sorry–they are busy doing more important matters and sure do not have time for this debate.
As far as judging goes, If you have the authority to condemn please be my guest and try but I am willing to bet my baptism in the Holy Spirit that you can’t bring about a curse without taking it upon your own soul. Now as far as me, well I did so and my word remains my words. See previous post for those words. Now as far as worldly judgement goes, who really cares, life after death is eternal.
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bradwill911
Guest
I am honestly wondering why you are posting here. It honestly doesn’t seem like you are trying to learn about the Catholic faith. Are you trying to disprove Catholicism or to help convert us Catholics to become something else? I’m honestly curious.
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donalddon5
Guest
I have receive personal messages from people like him trying to persuade me from the Holy Roman Catholic Faith, not one message but several. Him and his hordes of Devils constantly monitors what is being said on these boards in order to find a weak link and mislead the very elect. Well, I may not be Roman Catholic but him and his bunch can better believe that they have taken a bite of more then they can chew this time.
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donalddon5
Guest
The Cross of Holy Father Benedict; May the Holy Cross by my light; May the dragon be not my leader; Be gone Satan! Entice me not with deceits. What you offered is evil; Drink your poison yourself.
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Michael_Francis
Guest
***Thread closed having wandered from its topic.
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