Personal Relationship concept

[jabelltulsa]

Exodus 33:11 (New International Version)
11 The LORD would speak to Moses face to face, as a man speaks with his friend. Then Moses would return to the camp, but his young aide Joshua son of Nun did not leave the tent.

I wouldn’t presume to think of myself as Moses, if that is what you are saying.

 

[boppaid]

emmmm, no our relationship is very personal with Jesus, and very full of respect of who he is.

A personal relationship with God is reflected throughout the scriptures, starting with Adam and Eve walking with God in the Garden, read the Psalms, David speaks of God on a very personal level throughout, Abraham was a freind of God, and even barganed with God about saving S&G where lot lived. Practicing the Presence of God is a good thing, but one must relate to him too, that is talk to him daily. Whenever, I hear a siren for example, I go to my knees for the person the siren represents.

Simply, go to your knees and talk to God, he is listening.



Maybe, this personal relationship thing explains why we protestants refer to Jesus as Jesus ( first name ) as my homeboy and catholics refer to him as Christ ( kinda like a last name ) out of respect.

This is what I was trying to say with my reference to Moses.

 

[boppaid]

I wouldn’t presume to think of myself as Moses, if that is what you are saying.

Um…is Moses not merely a man? Last I heard he was. A great man, no doubt, but one full of flaws just the same as any other human.

My point was similar to Daniel Marsh’s (except he provided more examples than mine of Moses). Below is his quote:

A personal relationship with God is reflected throughout the scriptures, starting with Adam and Eve walking with God in the Garden, read the Psalms, David speaks of God on a very personal level throughout, Abraham was a freind of God, and even barganed with God about saving S&G where lot lived.

 

[DebCWil]

I like the story of Teresa of Avila. One day as she was riding her horse, she fell off in a muddy creek.
The Lord said, " I chastise those I Love" to which Teresa retorted, “No wonder you have so few friends.” Only a person with a personal relationship to God would have the audacity to respond in such a manner. Of course, God wins all arguments. Once in a while He will knock us from our high horse.
Nevertheless, the relationship that He offers is not reserved for the few great saints or the Apostles. It is available to each one of us. It is a call to intimacy that can be frightening when our only view of God is the gap that separates sinful man from the divine. Jesus bridged that gap and offers himself to any who are willing to accept a loving relationship with Him.

 

[jabelltulsa]

Um…is Moses not merely a man? Last I heard he was. A great man, no doubt, but one full of flaws just the same as any other human.

My point was similar to Daniel Marsh’s (except he provided more examples than mine of Moses). Below is his quote:

True that. I believe that all of the figures except for Jesus were merely man alone (Jesus being both God and Man).

I see myself as not being the same as those key people in the Bible. Yes, I am a part of His Church, but in John 21, Jesus speaks of lambs and sheep. The sheep are his priests and bishops. The laity are the lambs. This is my belief.

The sheep He spoke of have a greater understanding of Him, and therefore, a closer relationship. It is reasonable that he would converse with them in a more direct way.

I believe that these key figures (Moses, Abraham, Peter, Apostles) should have my honor and respect as well. I would not presume to address them as I would my best friend either. Though I would feel that friendship, I would never elevate myself to their level.

My life needs to be obedience and respect of Jesus and his chosen leaders. My life needs to be penance and discovery of Christ.

We all offer respect and honor to people on the Earth. We don’t refer to some people as our personal companions, even though we feel kinship with them. If I do that for the fallen, I firstly need to do that for Christ - and those who are appointed.

Please, Father, guide me, and teach me. Help me to respect, honor and worship You above all things. In Jesus’ name. Amen.

 

[boppaid]

jabelltulsa, those who are pastors, priests, bishops are indeed leaders. They do deserve respect. But they aren’t necessarily holier or better than you. They certainly aren’t entitled to a closer relationship with Christ than you. I feel so sad that you feel that way! I find much in scripture that shows that God wants us to have a personal relationship with him.

God [is] faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

1 Corinthians 1:9

God Bless

 

[jabelltulsa]

jabelltulsa, those who are pastors, priests, bishops are indeed leaders. They do deserve respect. But they aren’t necessarily holier or better than you. They certainly aren’t entitled to a closer relationship with Christ than you. I feel so sad that you feel that way! I find much in scripture that shows that God wants us to have a personal relationship with him.

God [is] faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

1 Corinthians 1:9

God Bless

“Personal Relationship” is in no way biblical; nor is it handed down in Sacred Tradition. Obedience, however, is. Jesus stresses obedience. The Old Testament stresses obedience.

For me, I need to be obedient FIRST. First, meaning here on Earth. I have my eternity, God willing, to be with the Trinity; glorifying, praising (seeing Him face to face - the Beatific Vision). Here on Earth, let my offering be my obedience; let me ALSO glorify and praise him here too but in a place where I can’t see him directly.

There is no reason for you to be sad for me. My closeness to Christ comes to me when I am a good servant. I feel Christ near me, when I keep God’s Word. I cannot let psychology be the thing that fulfills me. “Personal Relationship” = psychology.

When I hear non-C’s talking about “Personal Relationship”, and they do not mention the Eucharist, or Confession, or the Blessed Mary, or the Saints, or the succession of the Apostles, the development of the Early Church and all of Church history, the heresies put down by the Church starting in Acts (and going on still today) … I could go on and on … it makes me see that those people are more concerned with how God makes them feel, rather than knowing the Truth.

I don’t mean to be harsh or overly negative, here. In these last 500 years, we have seen the Truth mangled and twisted at the whims of prideful peoples. It spills into everything. Things are so bad now. Look around you. We need to revert back to the simple idea that we need to practice humility, charity, piety. Let us fore go ourselves. Put away the human element, and focus on the divine.

 

[boppaid]

Jabelltulsa, I am Catholic and I have a personal relationship with Him. It’s not mutually exclusive.

I also can obedient, while having a personal relationship with Him. It’s like that Footprints in the Sand poem…don’t you feel that way about Him?

 

[jabelltulsa]

Jabelltulsa, I am Catholic and I have a personal relationship with Him. It’s not mutually exclusive.

I also can obedient, while having a personal relationship with Him. It’s like that Footprints in the Sand poem…don’t you feel that way about Him?

Of course I do. Where do you think my understanding of obedience comes from? I am happy and silly and full of joy at least 95% of my wakeful life. Anyone who knows me would attest to that.

Where does this consistent and overabundance of joy come from? It comes from my love of Christ, His teachings, His compassion, His example, and the everyday Grace that He gives me. It is only in the times when I ignore His Grace that I feel dark and lost. I am completely and totally dependent on him.

My point in my posts is that those who ask me this question don’t seem to understand that it takes more than a personal relationship with Christ to truly love Him. We must obey Him, His Father, The HS, and the Church. Only then are we worthy of any kind of exchange with Him.

 

[Cat]

I’ve been reading Imitation of Christ for almost a year now. It’s a great, thought-provoking book that up-ends much of what I was taught as a Protestant.

I don’t think anyone can accuse Kempis of teaching a “personal relationship with Jesus Christ.” The book is filled with admonitions to give all of ourselves and everything we love to Jesus to be used as He sees fit. Jesus constantly asks us to obey Him in all things. It’s a far cry from the “Jesus wants to make me happy” gospel that I grew up with in the evangelical churches!

As I was reading this thread, I realized that much of Imitation of Christ is written as a dialogue between “Disciple” and Jesus. The Disciple talks to Jesus and asks questions and requests, and Jesus talks to the Disciple and answers the questions and requests.

I really love this. As I read, I try to be the “Disciple” in the book. I usually read the book in the presence of Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament, so for me, the book becomes a real discussion between me and Jesus. I know that this book has helped me to grow closer to Jesus and progress into a deeper understanding of what it means to be His disciple.

Isn’t this a “personal relationship,” when two people talk to each other and exchange questions and answers?

I think that it is very consistent with Catholic teachings for a Catholic Christian to state that they enjoy a “personal relationship with Jesus Christ.” That doesn’t mean that Jesus is our “Santa Claus” or “boyfriend” who gives us all of our heart’s desires. What it means is that there is a commitment to each other, along with constant communication, trust, obedience, and ever-growing love.

 

[boppaid]

Where does this consistent and overabundance of joy come from? It comes from my love of Christ, His teachings, His compassion, His example, and the everyday Grace that He gives me. It is only in the times when I ignore His Grace that I feel dark and lost. I am completely and totally dependent on him.

My point in my posts is that those who ask me this question don’t seem to understand that it takes more than a personal relationship with Christ to truly love Him. We must obey Him, His Father, The HS, and the Church. Only then are we worthy of any kind of exchange with Him.

Oh, well I agree with you then! I do think it’s important to note, though, that all the Baptist Christians I know agree wtih you too. I think,then, people get caught up on the phrase “personal relationship with Christ”, when really there are more commonalities than they realize between Catholics and fundamentalists.

 

[jabelltulsa]

In reading the last two posts, I feel great relief. I will concede that the personal relationship concept that you (boppaid and cat) have described is more like what I believe.

Pardon me, please, if I seemed a bit combative over this.

I have had many a conversation with others where the focus was strictly on the side of the human being rather than Christ concerning a personal relationship.

Please pray for my obedience to Him. I will do the same in return

 

[Cat]

jabelltulsa, I know exactly what you mean, and I don’t blame you for being a little combative.

Back in the 1990s, when my husband and I started getting very disillusioned with our evangelical churches, one of our objections was that so many people considered Jesus a “good buddy” and wrapped Him around themselves like an old coat.

We also objected to people who claimed to have a relationship with Jesus that seemed more like an emotional “high” brought on by contemporary Christian music and a theatrical “worship service.” It seemed to us that these people didn’t really have a relationship with a real Jesus, but with a “screenplay” Jesus, the Jesus of their songs and dances.

Finally, we had serious problems with people who claimed to have a relationship with Jesus, but did not bear “fruit” and were still mired in their sins, especially addictive sins. It seemed to us that there was little difference between these so called Christians and the rest of the world, except that often, the non-Christians were “nicer” because they didn’t have that arrogance of the “saved and going to heaven” Christians. In fact, for a while, my husband and I looked into the Mennonite churches because these Christians actually LOOK and ACT like Christians in the world.

But don’t get me wrong–there were plenty of Protestants that DID have a true “relationship” with Jesus, and lived a quiet life, worked at their own calling, and obeyed their Lord without any recognition. So please don’t think I am casting a blanket condemnation on all non-Catholic Christians.

One of the songs Keith Green used to sing was “To obey is better than sacrifice.” So there were and are still plenty of Protestants who teach obedience over “relationship.” But what they would say is that we are obeying a Person, Jesus Christ, and in order to do so, we must trust in that Person, and in order to trust, we must recognize that the Person loves us and is worthy of our trust. This is “relationship”–to trust and obey. In fact, that is a hymn that many Protestants used to sing–“Trust and obey, for there’s no other way to be happy in Jesus, but to trust and obey.” A simple song, but a very deep message that I think is getting lost in many Protestant churches today as they emphasize “relationship.”

The problem with emphasizing “relationship” is that many, many Americans have NO IDEA what a “good relationship” is. Many people have gone through divorce and keep getting involved in harmful relationships with members of the opposite sex that keep ending in heartbreak. Many have become estranged from parents or other loved ones. Many have tenouous relationships with work associates. Many people don’t have any idea how to be a good friend; they’re in life to “go for the gusto,” not “give.”

I think this makes it very hard for people to understand exactly what a “relationship” with Jesus is. That’s why I think Protestants need to stop talking about “personal relationship,” a term which isn’t in the Bible, and get back to talking about “trust and obey,” which IS in the Bible.

On the other hand, there are plenty of passages of Scripture where Jesus talks about calling us His “friends.” So I think it is entirely appropriate for Catholics (and other Christians) to say that they are “friends” of Jesus, and that they have a “relationship” with Him–talking, walking, and serving Him.

 

[jabelltulsa]

In fact, for a while, my husband and I looked into the Mennonite churches because these Christians actually LOOK and ACT like Christians in the world.

I am always struck by the Mennonites and Amish, seeing their modest dress and simple lives. Modesty is something that touches my heart, since it echoes the ideals of Jesus and the Holy Family. Even though I part with their understanding of Christ and His Church, I feel a kind of kinship with them. They seem to know obedience in the terms of modesty and unworldliness.

The problem with emphasizing “relationship” is that many, many Americans have NO IDEA what a “good relationship” is.

That is such a good point.

 

[Cat]

Another thing that bothered my husband and me in the evangelical churches is that so many Christians wanted my “relationship” with Jesus to be just like THEIR relationship with Jesus.

If they said, “Praise the Lord!” all the time, I should, too.

If they had an early morning prayer time, I should, too.

If they enjoyed singing contemporary Christian music, crying, and raising their hands in prayer to their Lord, I should, too.

If they consulted Jesus about what they should wear, which store to shop in, which book to read, etc., I should, too.

I tried to point out that all of us are different. For example, I was raised in a family where there wasn’t a lot of hugging and kissing, so I have a difficult time with people “touching” me and other displays of emotion. (I didn’t even cry during Bridge to Terabithia!) This means that I am not going to be as demonstrative in my “relationship” with Jesus as someone who was raised in a "touching/hugging/kissing family.

And I don’t like most contemporary music, secular or Christian, and never have, even when I was a teenager. So a CCM praise and worship band is not going to help me feel closer to the Lord. Rock music doesn’t even help me feel closer to my husband!

Like I said, everyone is different, and Jesus, our Blessed Lord and Savior, treats us all differently! Just read the Gospels. When He healed, sometimes He touched the person and sometimes He just spoke the word. When He spoke to people, sometimes He spoke harshly and sometimes He spoke gently. He treated people like individuals; He didn’t expect everyone to act the same way and today, He still doesn’t deal with all of us in the same way. Each “relationship” with Jesus is unique. And ALL of these “relationships” are valid, as long as we are trusting and obeying Him.

 

[DebCWil]

I’ve been reading Imitation of Christ for almost a year now. It’s a great, thought-provoking book that up-ends much of what I was taught as a Protestant.

I don’t think anyone can accuse Kempis of teaching a “personal relationship with Jesus Christ.” The book is filled with admonitions to give all of ourselves and everything we love to Jesus to be used as He sees fit. Jesus constantly asks us to obey Him in all things. It’s a far cry from the “Jesus wants to make me happy” gospel that I grew up with in the evangelical churches!

As I was reading this thread, I realized that much of Imitation of Christ is written as a dialogue between “Disciple” and Jesus. The Disciple talks to Jesus and asks questions and requests, and Jesus talks to the Disciple and answers the questions and requests.

I really love this. As I read, I try to be the “Disciple” in the book. I usually read the book in the presence of Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament, so for me, the book becomes a real discussion between me and Jesus. I know that this book has helped me to grow closer to Jesus and progress into a deeper understanding of what it means to be His disciple.

Isn’t this a “personal relationship,” when two people talk to each other and exchange questions and answers?

I think that it is very consistent with Catholic teachings for a Catholic Christian to state that they enjoy a “personal relationship with Jesus Christ.” That doesn’t mean that Jesus is our “Santa Claus” or “boyfriend” who gives us all of our heart’s desires. What it means is that there is a commitment to each other, along with constant communication, trust, obedience, and ever-growing love.

This is a good way to look at the idea of a personal relationship.
Obedience comes from the word to listen and we are called to listen to what God asks of us. The Holy Spirit who dwells within us will lead us to all Truth. “He who abides in Love abides in God and God in him.”