Personal Relationship concept

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I’m not trying to be contrary but I have never heard the term “personal relationship” as some sort of attack on Catholics. Sometimes I get the impression Catholics around here are LOOKING for ways to claim protestants are out to get them. Maybe I just misunderstood your post. :confused:
These are all things I’ve heard from the pulpit. No, nobody came out and said that it was the Catholic Church they were referring to…and maybe it wasn’t. Some of what I heard was a sort of caution against just going through the motions, so to speak. Lip service. The verse about people drawing near God with their mouth but their heart being far from Him comes to mind.

And I’ve also specifically heard “baptism doesn’t save you. You’ve got to have a personal relationship with Jesus.”

🤷
 
These are all things I’ve heard from the pulpit. No, nobody came out and said that it was the Catholic Church they were referring to…and maybe it wasn’t. Some of what I heard was a sort of caution against just going through the motions, so to speak. Lip service. The verse about people drawing near God with their mouth but their heart being far from Him comes to mind.

And I’ve also specifically heard “baptism doesn’t save you. You’ve got to have a personal relationship with Jesus.”

🤷
So you disagree with these things? I’m still confused.
If you disagree with
“being a church member can’t get you to heaven”
then you think solely being a member of a church CAN get you to heaven??

or
“a priest can’t do all the work for you”
So a priest CAN do all the work for you and you have to do nothing?

or the opposite of this one:
“you aren’t saved by being a good person.”
People are saved only by being good people?

And this one:
“baptism doesn’t save you. You’ve got to have a personal relationship with Jesus.”
So if someone is baptized alone and does not have any person faith/trust/following of Jesus they ARE saved?

I just don’t get the objections here unless you believe my examples? I know there are some people who say/believe crazy things about Catholics, but you can’t just assume everything is anti-Catholic propaganda.
 
Father Riccardo used a great story to illustrate why catholics have reverence for God and Jesus. He spoke of a priest he knew in Rome who had been a physicist before becoming a priest. He asked Fr John if he had ever been in a nuclear reactor. In a reactor, the core is surrounded by water, and it is all contained with a bubble of glass. He said that when you are in that presence, it is awesome because you realize that if that glass breaks, before your senses even register the glass breaking, you will be dead. That’s the power Jesus has, the power of God. He made everything, and can unmake it at a whim. He could have wiped us all out in less than a heartbeat thousands of years ago. Yet He chose to love us, with all our sins and faults. And the reverence the physicist has for the reactor is the same reverence catholics look upon God and Jesus with.

And more importantly, Jesus is IN each and every one of our churches. Not just in spirit, but His presence in the tabernacle. Right there in front of us. Yes, He’s our God, He died for us, He loves us. But all the power of a nuclear core, Jesus is a million times that. And He’s RIGHT THERE in front of us every time we are in front of Him in church or adoration. All that power and glory, yet we still sit in front of Him in church, and in adoration of Him, with respect and fear and love and reverence. Yet he allows us to take part in Him, gives us everlasting life in the Eucharist. How incredible that is! All that power, yet he empties himself so that we can be experience His love in the most personal level. Eat his flesh, drink his blood. It’s a beautiful thing.

How do you make Jesus your ‘buddy’ or have a ‘personal relationship’ with Him, with power like that? To bring the interaction with the Lord down to a human concept of ‘personal relationship’ is to cheapen Him, and neglects to consider the power of the Lord. Jesus is LORD! Why just stop at buddy or friend? Why only have a ‘personal relationship’ with Him? I can have personal relationships with humans, pets, anything. I want to worship, adore, love, respect, and diefy Jesus. Why stop at just a buddy?
 
To bring the interaction with the Lord down to a human concept of ‘personal relationship’ is to cheapen Him, and neglects to consider the power of the Lord.
Funny, last I checked, humans didn’t bring Him down… He came down to earth to be fully human as well as fully God and live at a human level. I already acknowledged Protestants need more reverence, both are necessary to KNOW Jesus. He was not one or the other, why only know Him in one or the other way?
 
Funny, last I checked, humans didn’t bring Him down… He came down to earth to be fully human as well as fully God and live at a human level. I already acknowledged Protestants need more reverence, both are necessary to KNOW Jesus. He was not one or the other, why only know Him in one or the other way?
The last I checked, Jesus didn’t live next door to me. He doesn’t ride the bus with me. He is seated at the right hand of the Father. He is human no more.
 
The last I checked, Jesus didn’t live next door to me. He doesn’t ride the bus with me. He is seated at the right hand of the Father. He is human no more.
You believe Jesus no longer has a human nature?
 
***How do you make Jesus your ‘buddy’ or have a ‘personal relationship’ with Him, with power like that? ***

I haven’t always had the most complete trust in Him that I do now. In any relationship there is a certain degree of trust that must exist whether minor or major in sense. With a personal relationship…you have the upmost complete trust possible but for us humans, we often ask that this be a two-way street.

But, for our Lord and King…this is an exception… I don’t need to know him entirely or sit next to him on the bus; I don’t need to know all His mysteries or reasons…I just need to continue trusting His judgment in all things and not mine.

And yes, He is all powerful…He doesn’t need anything from me…other than to know that yes indeed, I do trust Him.
 
The last I checked, Jesus didn’t live next door to me. He doesn’t ride the bus with me. He is seated at the right hand of the Father. He is human no more.
He is indeed seated at the right hand of the Father, making intercession for all believers (Rom. 8:34; Heb. 7:25; 1 John 2:1), in His glorified, resurrection body, the one He showed to Thomas and invited him to put his hand into the crucifixion wounds. But we must also remember His promise before He ascended:

Matt. 28:
18. Then Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
19. "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20. "teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.
’’ Amen.

**Plus He (or His Spirit) indwells each believer: “Whoever does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him” (Rom. 8:9).

Are you familiar with the old hymn, “In the Garden”? I don’t remember all the words but these are in there somewhere: “He walks with me and He talks with me and He tells me I am His own.” That is a beautiful picture of the close, personal communion a believer has with his Lord.

And recall the “beloved disciple,” John, who leaned on Jesus’ breast (John 13:25; 21:20), another picture of closeness, tenderness, and love.

So, He doesn’t live next door—He lives in your heart! (If you have that close, personal relationship with Him.) And you take Him with you wherever you go, on the bus, to work, to the store, everywhere, all in your heart. “I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”**
 
When I hear people using terms like “having a personal relationship with Christ”, it is always put forth as something I don’t have. “Do you have a personal relationship with Christ?” - I’ve been asked this so many times.

I have a personal relationship with my best friend. Do I grovel at his feet and kiss them? No. If Christ was here in front of me, I would fall flat on my face and do just that - I am reminded of Mary Magdalen in this thought. “Personal relationship” doesn’t seem to measure up.

It seems as though newer Churches like to use these terms to appeal to the people, and I understand what they are trying to do. I mean, who doesn’t want to have a personal relationship with Christ?

In order for me to have a relationship with him, I must follow what he says. That means following the laws of the Church he left us.

When I am asked about my personal relationship with Christ, I should ask if that person knows the beautiful history of His Church? Do they know about the successors of the apostles and all of the lives of the saints? Have they accepted the teachings of His Church (Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition)? Do they know that they can receive Christ in Flesh and Blood at any of the Catholic Churches in the world, in communion with all of the other souls who worship Him and are doing the same on that day? Do they even know that He is Present in the Eucharist? Do they do as Christ said and allow the successors of the apostles to forgive their sins under Christ divine direction (after all, only they have the power to bind and loosen)? Do they treat all the Sacraments as the divine conduits of Grace? Do they know of the Passion of our Lord - do they contemplate what He did for us? Do they dwell on Calvary?

Personal relationship? I will answer with a prayer:

God, please help me to be Your servant. Amen.
 
See Matthew 7:22-24

Jesus says to the wicked, “I never knew you”

check a concordance for know, knew, fellowship

Rev 3:20 sup with him
 
The idea of a “personal relationship with Jesus” is very much in line with Catholic teachings about “free will.”

The term “personal relationship” refers to the free choice that all humans make to serve Jesus or reject Him.

This is not a decision that your Church or priest or parents can make for you. Parents have you baptized and take your vows for you, since you are too young to make these vows yourself.

But in Confirmation you are make your own decision to follow Christ, and make those vows yourself.

Of course, a lot of teenagers get through Confirmation and have no clue about Jesus. But nevertheless, the Holy Spirit keeps working and many Catholics eventually make a genuine PERSONAL decision to follow Jesus.

That’s what the term “personal” means–your own personal choice, of your own “free will.”

In a way, the term is actually opposed to Calvinistic (Protestant) theology, which teaches a pre-destined salvation with no involvement of human will other than that which is fore-ordained by God.

This idea of a “buddy” relationship with Jesus is relatively new in Protestant theology. When I was growing up, the term “personal relationship” always referred to my own decision. I was taught that Jesus would be my “friend” which is very Biblical. But I was not taught that He would be my pal, my boyfriend, my homeboy, my buddy. I was not taught that I could use Jesus like a rabbit’s foot to get what I wanted.
 
Syele,

I’m very confused about why you’re confused. What’s so difficult to understand about what I said?
  • The examples I gave were things I’ve heard, and not necessarily anything I believe.
  • I never said it was anti-Catholic propaganda. I’m not even Catholic and you’re assuming I’m seeing anti-Catholic propaganda around every corner.
  • With that beings said, it DID seem at times that some of those things were an indirect slam against the CC (esp the priest one). But, as I already said, maybe not.
I truly don’t understand how that’s hard. Sorry.

Curious
 
I refuse to let the world erode the beauty of what a relationship should mean. In the same way, I refuse to acknowledge the rainbow as a symbol of homosexual “diversity.” Am I stubborn? Yes. But if Christians don’t stand up for God’s truth and right and wrong, defending such things, we will lose in the end.
That’s great, but here’s my issue with that. When some guy on the street asks me “do you have a personal relationship with Christ”…exactly what definition of relationship is he using? It can be different for every one of us! Catholics don’t use this terminology so we often don’t know how to respond. I’d have to ask each person “well, how do you define relationship. Tell me and then I can tell you if that’s what I have with Christ.”

It’s a loaded question and no one has ever asked it to me in friendship, only as a challenge. Sometimes followed or preceeded by the accusation that I worship Mary.

If you’ve ever lost a friend, had an argument with a familiy member, or been hurt by a loved one, you might be able to understand how some of us feel “relationship” cheapens what we have with the Trinity. God will never turn his back on us, hurt us, deceive us, or get so angry at our wrongdoings that he stomps off in anger. So how does that equate to a human “personal relationship”?
 
Faith is always personal, it begins, however, with reverence. “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge.” "Personally, left the CC in '68 and reverted this year, have long experience as a bapticostal. First thing I noticed was the lack of reverence, and my personal reverence deepened and found new expressions on my return. What protestants are taught about CC is not true, I know first hand. Be patient with me I’m new.
 
That’s great, but here’s my issue with that. When some guy on the street asks me “do you have a personal relationship with Christ”…exactly what definition of relationship is he using? It can be different for every one of us! Catholics don’t use this terminology so we often don’t know how to respond. I’d have to ask each person “well, how do you define relationship. Tell me and then I can tell you if that’s what I have with Christ.”

It’s a loaded question and no one has ever asked it to me in friendship, only as a challenge. Sometimes followed or preceeded by the accusation that I worship Mary.

If you’ve ever lost a friend, had an argument with a familiy member, or been hurt by a loved one, you might be able to understand how some of us feel “relationship” cheapens what we have with the Trinity. God will never turn his back on us, hurt us, deceive us, or get so angry at our wrongdoings that he stomps off in anger. So how does that equate to a human “personal relationship”?
The words “personal relationship” are not really found in Scripture, so let’s consider whether the whole idea is. To break it down, let’s look at the idea of “personal” first. Cat posted some thoughts about that word:
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Cat:
Of course, a lot of teenagers get through Confirmation and have no clue about Jesus. But nevertheless, the Holy Spirit keeps working and many Catholics eventually make a genuine PERSONAL decision to follow Jesus.

That’s what the term “personal” means–your own personal choice, of your own "free will."
**I think that’s right. It does involve a “PERSONAL decision to follow Jesus,” but maybe more. A “relationship” speaks of how one person is related to another. In a family two people may be related by blood or by marriage—brothers, sisters, brother-in-law, etc. What sort of relationship does Jesus want to have with us? Certainly Master and Servant/Follower, and God and worshipper, but perhaps even before that, Savior and savee, if I may coin a phrase. Perhaps when some guy on the street asks you if you have a personal relationship with Jesus, what he may be asking is, Have you received Jesus as your personal Savior? or, Are you saved?

Where does he get those words? The idea of “receiving Jesus” would come from John 1:11-12:**

** 11. He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him.
12. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name: **

**Some versions use the word “accept” instead of “receive.” Same idea. Jesus came to His own, i.e., the Jewish nation as a whole, and it rejected and crucified Him, but as many as received or accepted, or did not reject Him, He gave them the right to become children of God, to those who believed in His name. That would be all his initial disciples, all Jews, who did believe in Him.

Okay, so “receiving Jesus” or “accepting Jesus” are scriptural ideas, but what about “as your personal Savior”? What does that mean? Is it scriptural? The expression “personal Savior” is not found in the Bible, but is the idea scriptural?

1 John 4:14 says, “And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world.”

Does that mean the whole world is saved? No, we already saw that some did not receive or accept Him, and though their sins have been paid for at Calvary, that payment is of no effect if it is rejected by the sinner. Whoever rejects and does not receive Him remains lost and liable to pay for his/her own sins for all eternity. Only the one who receives Him or accepts Him is “saved” or rescued or delivered from his/her sins which He paid for at Calvary. So the idea of “personal Savior” goes back to the idea of a PERSONAL decision, as Cat pointed out, but in this case to make Jesus your own Savior, i.e., accept what He did at Calvary as paying for YOUR sins. And that makes it personal—applying to you personally, making Him not just “Savior or the world” but your Savior personally, hence, your personal Savior. When that is done, you are “saved” or rescued or delivered, and you can answer the guy’s question with a “Yes!” (Whether you can lose it, gets into OSAS, which I need not go into here.)
**
 
This is why it’s a loaded question, Catholics don’t buy into the terminology of accepting Jesus as a ‘personal lord and saviour’. He came for all of us, and what He did wasn’t just between Him and me. Neither do we believe all you have to do is accept Jesus to be ‘saved’. What He did was for all men, and we do not take it lightly. He died for all our sins, for all men, and then created His church on earth for all men to take part in that. The Catholic individual’s relationship with God and Jesus very much depends on the church, and works through the church.
 
This is why it’s a loaded question, Catholics don’t buy into the terminology of accepting Jesus as a ‘personal lord and saviour’. He came for all of us, and what He did wasn’t just between Him and me.
Yes, of course, He came for all of us, but you will be standing before Him alone some day and it will be a matter of Him and you, no one else. What He did will then only matter as between you and Him. YOUR judgment will be a very personal thing. If He isn’t YOUR Savior personally now, He will say to you, Depart from me, I never knew you.
Neither do we believe all you have to do is accept Jesus to be ‘saved’. What He did was for all men, and we do not take it lightly. He died for all our sins, for all men, and then created His church on earth for all men to take part in that. The Catholic individual’s relationship with God and Jesus very much depends on the church, and works through the church.
Well, John 1:12 mentions “receive” (or “accept” in the New American Bible and the New Jerusalem Bible) and “believe in His Name.” If you look at other verses, you may see other things, like “Repent and be converted that your sins may be blotted out” (Acts 3:19), or “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved” (Acts 16:31). There’s also Rom. 10:9 where it’s “if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.” Or Rom. 10:13, "whoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.’’ In any event, it’s really not complicated. Jesus said, “Unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.” Would that not refer to childlike faith, very simple, receiving and accepting the Lord Jesus Christ and His work of redemption at Calvary as payment for your sins? Certainly you would not say anyone shouldn’t do that, are you? Or do you just want to add a lot of other stuff to it?
 
**
**Well, John 1:12 mentions “receive” (or “accept” in the New American Bible and the New Jerusalem Bible) and “believe in His Name.” If you look at other verses, you may see other things, like “Repent and be converted that your sins may be blotted out” (Acts 3:19), or “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved” (Acts 16:31). There’s also Rom. 10:9 where it’s “if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.” Or Rom. 10:13, "whoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.’’ In any event, it’s really not complicated. Jesus said, “Unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.” Would that not refer to childlike faith, very simple, receiving and accepting the Lord Jesus Christ and His work of redemption at Calvary as payment for your sins? Certainly you would not say anyone shouldn’t do that, are you? Or do you just want to add a lot of other stuff to it?****I hope you are not implying that Catholics “add” to the word of God. Nothing in Catholic doctrine contradicts the Bible. And no, accepting the Word of God is not complicated. It’s preserving in that Word and living in Christ that gets us mere mortals and could be the difference between eternal life and death.
 
I find this whole conversation quite fascinating … and I’m also now wondering if I am a little bit weird in my thinking about a ‘personal relationship with Christ’.

As I go about my day, I feel Christ’s presence in my life. He is aware of every move I make and every decision I face. I talk to Him regularly and ask for His advice (I guess a form of praying on one’s feet). I honor Him and respect Him and I want Him near me. I feel I need Him in order to live a life that will honor God.

When I was away from any sort of religion I felt that I was missing the one constant in my life. The One who knew me since I was a baby and heard all my prayers, musings, and troubles, was no longer there. Indeed, I was the one who did this on purpose but it was because I felt that I was so bad in nature that He could not possibly want to be included in my life. I eventually turned my life around but it was by His grace, not mine.

So when I think of the words ‘personal relationship with Christ’ I’m thinking of being aware of His constant presence and accepting it willingly into my life. I WANT Him with me. I NEED Him with me. I am not bringing Him down to my level … I am trying to honor Him by bringing Him into my everyday life. I am acknowledging that I need Him to live my life in a way that would be pleasing to God.
 
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