"personal relationship" with God

[RedFox0456]

What a blessed moment!!:extrahappy:

What do you think occassioned it?

How can it be fostered in others?

For your first question, I have a few suspicions. The short version is that I finally fell from my own ego and self-righteousness. Then at mass I levelled with God and told Him that I could not understand what it was all about (regarding faith). So in the middle of mass, during the consecration, I had my moment. Looking back, it was somewhat comical - I was confused, in awe, almost in tears, while everyone else was just kneeling down like normal.

The best I can tell is that I finally reached a moment of real humility. I don’t know how to tell other people to reach that point. I had been religious for years and thought I understood humility, but I hadn’t grasped it. So I guess for question two, the answer is simple but not easy. When people humble themselves before God they will have their relationship. That’s easy to say, but it took me almost three decades to accomplish. Even then I only managed that for one brief, beautiful moment.

 

[Vico]

It seems as though in modern times, many who call themselves Catholic are into asking whether or not one has a “personal relationship with Jesus”. This is particularly big with those who buy into “charismatic renewal”. It seems as though, in an attempt to unify with protestantism, these folks think they are going to “ween people away” from what they consider archaic about Holy Mother Church. Perhaps they don’t believe in the teaching authority of the Church and that the Church as the visible Body of Christ is not necessary. Thoughts?

The Catechism states that the personal relationship is in prayer.

2558 “Great is the mystery of the faith!” The Church professes this mystery in the Apostles’ Creed (Part One) and celebrates it in the sacramental liturgy (Part Two), so that the life of the faithful may be conformed to Christ in the Holy Spirit to the glory of God the Father (Part Three). This mystery, then, requires that the faithful believe in it, that they celebrate it, and that they live from it in a vital and personal relationship with the living and true God. This relationship is prayer.

 

[Michael_Mayo]

For your first question, I have a few suspicions. The short version is that I finally fell from my own ego and self-righteousness. Then at mass I levelled with God and told Him that I could not understand what it was all about (regarding faith). So in the middle of mass, during the consecration, I had my moment. Looking back, it was somewhat comical - I was confused, in awe, almost in tears, while everyone else was just kneeling down like normal.

The best I can tell is that I finally reached a moment of real humility. I don’t know how to tell other people to reach that point. I had been religious for years and thought I understood humility, but I hadn’t grasped it. So I guess for question two, the answer is simple but not easy. When people humble themselves before God they will have their relationship. That’s easy to say, but it took me almost three decades to accomplish. Even then I only managed that for one brief, beautiful moment.

:hug3: thanks for sharing

 

[Rosebud77]

Part of this is that “we” do not need any intermediary eg or especially priests.

One phrase speaks of direct dialling rather than going through the operator or exchange…

 

[Vico]

Part of this is that “we” do not need any intermediary eg or especially priests.

One phrase speaks of direct dialling rather than going through the operator or exchange…

The priests are there to administer the sacraments, for example penance, especially when the contrition for sins is imperfect, and also the reconcile sinners with the Church.

Catechism:

1444 In imparting to his apostles his own power to forgive sins the Lord also gives them the authority to reconcile sinners with the Church. …

Also know as:

• sacrament of conversion
• sacrament of Penance
• sacrament of confession
• sacrament of forgiveness
• sacrament of Reconciliation

 

[HelenRose]

Part of this is that “we” do not need any intermediary eg or especially priests.

One phrase speaks of direct dialling rather than going through the operator or exchange…

Of course we do not need an intermediary. God is always here to hear us. But, He also has given us His voice in the words of the Priest. He has given us the Mother’s care in His Mother. These are His gifts to us. He has given a family in the Saints. Friends to help us understand the need for family. To not accept these gifts is like saying that we do not need flowers to understand the beauty of God’s creation. Yes, many blind people have found God’s beauty in touch and in sound. Yet within the Catholic Church we have the full beauty of the gifts God has given us.

He has given these gifts to us as a way to help us understand His love.

 

[goout]

It seems as though in modern times, many who call themselves Catholic are into asking whether or not one has a “personal relationship with Jesus”. This is particularly big with those who buy into “charismatic renewal”. It seems as though, in an attempt to unify with protestantism, these folks think they are going to “ween people away” from what they consider archaic about Holy Mother Church. Perhaps they don’t believe in the teaching authority of the Church and that the Church as the visible Body of Christ is not necessary. Thoughts?

“It seems as though…”

Rather than impressions, can you connect the dots as to why a particular expression of a particular person’s faith is concretely all these anti-Catholic things?

Your post is very vague.

 

[goout]

This is frequently used to mean that the role of the Catholic Curch and the Sacraments is inconsequential. The truth of the matter is that frequenting the sacraments IS having a relationship with God.

Not necessarily.

 

[HelenRose]

“It seems as though…”

Rather than impressions, can you connect the dots as to why a particular expression of a particular person’s faith is concretely all these anti-Catholic things?

Your post is very vague.

I don’t think that it is anti-Catholic. It is just a statement. I personally am trying to learn how to ignore buzz words and terms and look past who is or is not saying them and evaluating the words on their own terms.

“I have a personal relationship Christ” is one of those terms that can mean what anyone wants it to mean if they are looking for a fight. Or want to try to belittle someone.

The term “I have a personal relationship with Christ” is a beautiful thought and one that we can share with all those who love Christ.

 

[goout]

I don’t think that it is anti-Catholic. It is just a statement. I personally am trying to learn how to ignore buzz words and terms and look past who is or is not saying them and evaluating the words on their own terms.

“I have a personal relationship Christ” is one of those terms that can mean what anyone wants it to mean if they are looking for a fight. Or want to try to belittle someone.

The term “I have a personal relationship with Christ” is a beautiful thought and one that we can share with all those who love Christ.

Right.
I don’t think I expressed my thought well.
I’m asking why the OP assumes that a Catholic claiming a personal relationship with Christ is going against good Catholic practice.

I’m really not sure what he is asking.

 

[Rosebud77]

Of course we do not need an intermediary. God is always here to hear us. But, He also has given us His voice in the words of the Priest. He has given us the Mother’s care in His Mother. These are His gifts to us. He has given a family in the Saints. Friends to help us understand the need for family. **To not accept these gifts is like saying that we do not need flowers to understand the beauty of God’s creation. ** Yes, many blind people have found God’s beauty in touch and in sound. Yet within the Catholic Church we have the full beauty of the gifts God has given us.

He has given these gifts to us as a way to help us understand His love.

Not so. And that is the point that others make.

 

[1pppp]

U know I are a Christian in relationship when u function in the 9 plus gifts if the holy spirit, and all of the churches that saint Paul founded did this, acts 19 was an introduction, if u are not getting dreams,waking visions, prophetic words,then u only have the salvation impartation,example when u pray 4 someone the h.s. will tell u a word. Oh confortrdif ica edification a prophetic understanding 4 that person, this is why praying 4 someone can b a blessing. Because u are getting a rhama word from God, as Moses. Said, the Lord wishes all his people were prophetic

 

[goout]

Not so. And that is the point that others make.

Helen is right.
The Church is a community, not merely a bunch of disconnected individuals.

 

[Rosebud77]

Helen is right.
The Church is a community, not merely a bunch of disconnected individuals.

But we ARE individuals…

And you are missing what I said.

In many other churches we face God alone, directly , as we will at Judgement.

All the saints know and knew that.

The idea behind the “personal relationship” words IS that, Of course all churches have leaders but not as RC does with everything being via a priest.

It is a totally different way of looking at things

Connectedness is a much more profound and meaningful idea than the one you are portraying…

 

[Rosebud77]

I don’t think that it is anti-Catholic. It is just a statement. I personally am trying to learn how to ignore buzz words and terms and look past who is or is not saying them and evaluating the words on their own terms.

**“I have a personal relationship Christ” is one of those terms that can mean what anyone wants it to mean if they are looking for a fight. Or want to try to belittle someone. **

The term “I have a personal relationship with Christ” is a beautiful thought and one that we can share with all those who love Christ.

That is not true and so unfair, and yes, judgemental ,.

 

[Vico]

But we ARE individuals…

And you are missing what I said.

In many other churches we face God alone, directly , as we will at Judgement.

All the saints know and knew that.

The idea behind the “personal relationship” words IS that, Of course all churches have leaders but not as RC does with everything being via a priest.

It is a totally different way of looking at things

Connectedness is a much more profound and meaningful idea than the one you are portraying…

As given in the Catechism:

299 Because God creates through wisdom, his creation is ordered: "You have arranged all things by measure and number and weight."151 The universe, created in and by the eternal Word, the “image of the invisible God”, is destined for and addressed to man, himself created in the “image of God” and called to a personal relationship with God. 152 …

151 Wis 11:20.
152 Col 1:15, Gen 1:26.​

• Wis 11:20 Even without these, they could have been killed at a single blast, pursued by justice and winnowed by your mighty spirit. But you have disposed all things by measure and number and weight.
• Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
• Gen 1:26 Then God said: Let us make human beings in our image, after our likeness. Let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, the tame animals, all the wild animals, and all the creatures that crawl on the earth.

 

[Rosebud77]

As given in the Catechism:

299 Because God creates through wisdom, his creation is ordered: "You have arranged all things by measure and number and weight."151 The universe, created in and by the eternal Word, the “image of the invisible God”, is destined for and addressed to man, himself created in the “image of God” and called to a personal relationship with God. 152 …

151 Wis 11:20.
152 Col 1:15, Gen 1:26.​

• Wis 11:20 Even without these, they could have been killed at a single blast, pursued by justice and winnowed by your mighty spirit. But you have disposed all things by measure and number and weight.
• Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
• Gen 1:26 Then God said: Let us make human beings in our image, after our likeness. Let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, the tame animals, all the wild animals, and all the creatures that crawl on the earth.

Sorry; what point are you trying to make please?

The expression “personal relationship with God” is one other churches use and that was my point, Clearly no one has quite grasped that!

It really is so very very simple.

 

[simpleas]

But we ARE individuals…

And you are missing what I said.

In many other churches we face God alone, directly , as we will at Judgement.

All the saints know and knew that.

The idea behind the “personal relationship” words IS that, Of course all churches have leaders but not as RC does with everything being via a priest.

It is a totally different way of looking at things

Connectedness is a much more profound and meaningful idea than the one you are portraying…

I must admit I have been struggling with how we need to interact with another person aka priests for all the sacraments.

How does one have a personal relationship with God if one needs to ask forgiveness through another person?

It’s not really personal then is it?

Prayer is the most personal part I think, I have always thought about this verse and acted on it for most all my life :

• But when you pray, go into your inner room, shut your door, and pray to your Father, who is unseen. And your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. *

 

[johnnyc176]

It seems as though in modern times, many who call themselves Catholic are into asking whether or not one has a “personal relationship with Jesus”. This is particularly big with those who buy into “charismatic renewal”. It seems as though, in an attempt to unify with protestantism, these folks think they are going to “ween people away” from what they consider archaic about Holy Mother Church. Perhaps they don’t believe in the teaching authority of the Church and that the Church as the visible Body of Christ is not necessary. Thoughts?

I also have seen this trend of some Catholics (don’t know if they are charismatics) who buy into the protestant notion of a ‘personal relationship’ with Jesus. I hear statements such as ‘we need to bring people to Jesus before we bring them into the Church’. It implies a separation of Jesus from His Church. A relationship with Jesus without His Church turns into finding one’s own personal Jesus… in effect protestantism. Very convenient for dissenters who say ‘well I don’t agree with this church teaching or that church teaching’.

I have also heard faithful Catholics derisively labeled ‘pray, pay and obey’ Catholics by the same. All three things btw we are commanded to do in Scripture.

Cardinal Dolan had a great talk about this at the Napa conference where he talked about how we can not have a relationship with Jesus without His Church. A funny line he said was ‘these people want Jesus as their Shepherd as long as they are the only lamb’

Pope Francis…

Without the Church and her guidance, our relationship with Christ would be at the mercy of our imagination, our interpretations, our moods.

“It is an absurd dichotomy to love Christ without the Church; to listen to Christ, but not the Church; to be with Christ at the margins of the Church, One cannot do this. It is an absurd dichotomy.”

 

[SyroMalankara]

Having intercessors and having a personal relationship are not mutually exclusive. What does ‘personal’ mean, it does not mean individualistic or isolated relationship.

per·son·al
ˈpərs(ə)n(ə)l/
adjective
adjective: personal
1.
of, affecting, or belonging to a particular person rather than to anyone else.
5.
existing as a self-aware entity, not as an abstraction or an impersonal force.

The Triune God of Christianity is not distant, cold, unrelateable and outside His creation. He’s close, approachable, one with us in the Second Person of the Most Holy Trinity. A personal relationship can only be had with a Person. The way Islam, Hinduism, Bahai or even certain strains of protestantism understand God is not “personal”. Catholicism knows God as personal through Jesus. Thats what is meant by “personal relationship”, not emotional high or acting out foolishly “being slain” or whatever