Personal Relationship With Jesus Christ

[Miriam1947]

You’re right. We have people in our church who have problems and who don’t live the most holy of lives. There is a fine line between showing love and mercy on one hand and choosing to ignore or sweep sin under the rug. I think many evangelicals perceive from what they know of the Catholic church that within it is a permissiveness to sin as long as one does all the right things, like go to confession where they are absolved.

Being absolved of a confessed sin does not give permission to commit that same sin again. But human nature being what it is, many of the same sins are confessed again, because we have habitual sins.

It could be anything from gossip to masturbation to pornography. It is up to us to try not to commit that sin again and to ask forgiveness if, in our weakness, we do.

 

[CompSciGuy]

I simply have to speak up and defend my evangelical Protestant friends and acquaintances.

I’ve known literally thousands of evangelicals in my 54 years, and I would say that I know several hundred “up close and personal.”

In all those years, I have seen only a handful of evangelical Protestants involved in serious “secret sin.”

I have known quite a few evangelical Protestants who got caught in the meshes of addictive sins such as alcoholism, sex sins, gluttony, drugs, etc., but they agonized over their weaknesses, and shared their struggles with the rest of the church members, and fought against their sin, and many did succeed in getting well, although some didn’t.

But for the most part, the evangelical Protestants that I have known over the years are literally the salt of the earth, as stalwart and wholly good and openly kind-hearted and loving as the saints of old. They are deeply devoted to Jesus and the study of the Bible, generous with their time and money, tender-hearted, rich in good works, especially works which help those in need (Catholics would call these the “corporal works of mercy”), and full of action-oriented love for their fellow man, both Christian and non-Christian.

I realize that some of you have had some very bad experiences with evangelical Protestants. Well, so have I. In 2002, after seven years of good, hard-working service to the congregation, i and my husband were kicked out of our final evangelical Protestant church. We had to face a tribunal, packed with people that we had never met and who didn’t know us, and we were tried, condemned, and ousted, and then shunned. The accusations were utterly false; in fact, the woman pastor who accused us was fired a year later after she was caught in a lie. (Apparently she had lied her way through much of her life.)

My daughters stopped attending church after this. As my older daughter said, “Mom, if they treated you and Dad like this after all you’ve done and given to the church, how could they ever put up with me?”

Eventually she converted to Catholicism, too.

But my younger daughter still does not attend church. She and her husband profess belief in God, and both are baptized, and they talk about trying to find a church. They’ve also expressed interest in converting to Catholicism. (My daughter graduated from a Catholic university.) But they don’t, because they don’t TRUST any church after what happened to us.

So yes, I’ve met up with some pretty nasty evangelical Protestants.

But I will still defend all the good ones that I have known over the years.

I grew up Evangelical and my family is all Evangelical. My younger brother is quite possibly the finest example of a Christian I have ever known, better indeed than I am. He is completely humble, and he lives out the gospel so beautifully. I have often wondered how someone who lives without the sacraments can be such an excellent Christian. I think God works grace in mysterious ways, although I think the primary source of grace for evangelicals must be their great devotion to the scriptures.

I often think, how excellent would it be if God led him into the Catholic Church.

 

[SmallCcatholic]

As Cat I think mentioned above, there are hot,lukewarm and cold among us all.

 

[SmallCcatholic]

I think God works grace in mysterious ways, although I think the primary source of grace for evangelicals must be their great devotion to the scriptures…

Hello brother. God bless you

I would say more devoted/committed to Christ by living His word…Walking more in the Spirit and less in the flesh…

 

[CopticChristian]

“Personal relationship with Jesus” just means exactly that. I have a relationship with Jesus Christ, and it is personal, intimate. It is a relationship that is as real as any I have on earth. I have faith in him, I trust him, and I love him. I receive his love and his kindness and his goodness. Relationship means that I communicate with him.

What evangelical Protestants criticize is **nominal Christianity **(whether it be Catholic or Protestant). What we criticize are those Christians who do not have a relationship with Jesus, who do not know him, or ever really think about him or allow any room in their lives for him. These are those Christians who might be baptized or confirmed or on a church’s official membership roll but in their hearts they do not know Jesus. They do not speak to him or listen to him. They do not cultivate any devotion to him.

This is quite a generalization. How do you know anything about anyone?

Hi Bob how are you? Fine? I have a personal relationship with my brother, he is wonderful, we speak all the time, we love each other and he is great. Bob you have no relationship with your family, you are pitiful…Oh yeah…how do you know that…I never have spoken to you about it…

Catholics have a personal intimate relationship with Christ through His word, through his person, we honor His Father, His mother, we think about all the people that are with Him, cloud of witnesses so to speak, we pray to Him, we Meditate on Him…we consume Him every Sunday or sometimes everyday…we honor and respect each and everytime we worship the death and resurrection…we always recall the paraclete the Holy Spirit…after He sent Him…We always recall the Trinity when we sign ourselves and recall our baptismal vows…

I believe that you may want to stop generalizing what you believe you know rather than a few experiences you have had…

 

[CopticChristian]

For the Christian, **Jesus is not limited to what we know about him from history or from the interpretations of 2 thousand years of thought about him. He possesses a love so strong for you and me and everyone who has ever lived that he would willingly lay down his life, shedding his blood for sinners. His love breaks through time itself and is as strong and real today as it was when he walked this earth. He is in Heaven now interceding for us. He sent the Holy Spirit to be an advocate for us, who also intercedes on our behalf. There is no one more real to me than Jesus. When I have no in this world, I know he is there. I talk to him, I bring him my burdens and my problems, and I am learning to listen to him and hear his voice.**My father is a minister and after years of faith in Christ he has this calm assurance. I remember there was a time when our local church was going through such a horrible time. We actually had to leave it for awhile. The situation was complicated because my father was on the church’s board and most of our family went to the church. There were some really bad things happening, and while my mother was content to just deal with it and keep quiet, my father felt strongly that he had to take a stand. At the time, we had to make some incredibly hard decisions. My dad was ultimately kicked off of the board and we had to leave the church that I grew up with and that my mom had helped dig the foundation out with a spoon as a child. I would listen as my dad and mom would discuss things. My dad spoke about how the Lord told him this or the “I heard the Lord say, ‘Mike …’” Now keep in mind that my dad was not suggesting that he was hearing audible voices from God, but he heard God speaking to him, leading him, and guiding him through some very tough waters.

I always wondered how my dad seemed to be so familiar with Jesus. Then I realized that its because after spending so many years with a person, you do become familiar with them. He is closer to us than the closest friend or brother, and as we spend more time with him we grow closer to him.

This sounds awfully Catholic to me…

 

[1voice]

Perhaps that is why some Protestants assume that the Catholic doesn’t have a personal relationsihp with Jesus–Catholics are not constantly doing something at church.

That is a stereotype. Every Christian religion can be a vehicle for deep personal growth … or just an internal treadmill that (from the outside) looks like a person is going somewhere.

“Religious” activity (for its own sake) doesnt necessarily have much to do with a personal/ intimate/ healthy relationship with Jesus. When I was a kid in Catholic school we went to Mass every morning. Daily Catechism class … Stations in Lent … Procession to Mary in May … Daily religious activity … all had no effect on many of the boys that I sat with in class every day. They cussed as a lifestyle and told every dirty joke they could get into their schoolboy heads. They gossiped and showed little respect for the nuns … or the Priests.

Intimacy with God… no matter what religion you choose … requires study/ soul searching and face time with Jesus (not religious activity) on a regular basis… out of that disciplined lifestyle flows the “good works” that are talked about in the Epistle.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

The evangelical concept of a ‘personal relationship’ with Jesus, is modern Western, individualistic terminology unknown to the writers of Scripture and the early Church.

Ok I thought I was going crazy reading this thread until you came along. Thanks!

When did this “personal Jesus” business infect the Church?

 

[onmyknees]

Originally Posted by ltwin View Post
For the Christian, Jesus is not limited to what we know about him from history or from the interpretations of 2 thousand years of thought about him. He possesses a love so strong for you and me and everyone who has ever lived that he would willingly lay down his life, shedding his blood for sinners. His love breaks through time itself and is as strong and real today as it was when he walked this earth. He is in Heaven now interceding for us. He sent the Holy Spirit to be an advocate for us, who also intercedes on our behalf. There is no one more real to me than Jesus. When I have no in this world, I know he is there. I talk to him, I bring him my burdens and my problems, and I am learning to listen to him and hear his voice.

Itwin, Like CopticChristian said, What you wrote here is what Catholics believe and try to live. It is where our hearts are in everything that we do that matters to God. We have faith and when we have faith we want to do good for God and for our neighbor.

We don’t call it our personal relationship with Jesus but we do have what you describe, with Jesus, especially in the Eucharist. Jesus gave us this sacrament so that we would never be without him after He went to heaven (John 6). When we receive Him, his body, blood, soul and divinity in the Eucharist, we are actually becoming more like Him!

I too talk to Jesus all day long who loves us so much and wants us to love him with all our hearts and minds. When I go to pray to Him (at our Adoration chapel of the Most Blessed Sacrament) He is there,really present in the Eucharist. I fall on my knees to adore Him, then I praise Him and give Him thanks much like we do at mass. We also ask for His forgiveness and mercy and listen to His word through scripture at mass. In the chapel I cry out to Him for relief of my suffering, if it be His will to do so. Not my will but yours, Jesus! But my favorite prayer with Jesus is just to sit quietly and use contemplative prayer to be nearer to Him. I go to be in His presence almost every night and He has helped me in so many ways.

I asked my very faithful and traditional priest one time, “How does Jesus speak to us?” and He said through the scriptures. And so now I always read the scriptures in the chapel too. I have had some very profound insights and answers from Him.

May God continue to bless you!

 

[JustaServant]

That is a stereotype. Every Christian religion can be a vehicle for deep personal growth … or just an internal treadmill that (from the outside) looks like a person is going somewhere.

“Religious” activity (for its own sake) doesnt necessarily have much to do with a personal/ intimate/ healthy relationship with Jesus. When I was a kid in Catholic school we went to Mass every morning. Daily Catechism class … Stations in Lent … Procession to Mary in May … Daily religious activity … all had no effect on many of the boys that I sat with in class every day. They cussed as a lifestyle and told every dirty joke they could get into their schoolboy heads. They gossiped and showed little respect for the nuns … or the Priests.

Intimacy with God… no matter what religion you choose … requires study/ soul searching and face time with Jesus (not religious activity) on a regular basis… out of that disciplined lifestyle flows the “good works” that are talked about in the Epistle.

What an insulting post.
How the heck do you know who is going on a “internal treadmill”?
I spent years on your side of the Tiber and I can tell you thier are just as many “born again” “personal relationship with Jesus” christians out there who “cussed as a lifestyle and told every dirty joke they could get into their schoolboy heads and gossiped and showed little respect for thier pastors”.
BTW, study/ soul searching and face time with Jesus (which many Catholics do)** IS** religious activity whether you call it that or not.

 

[JustaServant]

Ok I thought I was going crazy reading this thread until you came along. Thanks!

When did this “personal Jesus” business infect the Church?

IMHO, Billy Graham.

 

[CopticChristian]

That is a stereotype. Every Christian religion can be a vehicle for deep personal growth … or just an internal treadmill that (from the outside) looks like a person is going somewhere.

“Religious” activity (for its own sake) doesnt necessarily have much to do with a personal/ intimate/ healthy relationship with Jesus. When I was a kid in Catholic school we went to Mass every morning. Daily Catechism class … Stations in Lent … Procession to Mary in May … Daily religious activity … all had no effect on many of the boys that I sat with in class every day. They cussed as a lifestyle and told every dirty joke they could get into their schoolboy heads. They gossiped and showed little respect for the nuns … or the Priests.

Intimacy with God… no matter what religion you choose … requires study/ soul searching and face time with Jesus (not religious activity) on a regular basis… out of that disciplined lifestyle flows the “good works” that are talked about in the Epistle.

This response is nothing more than a reflection of what you believe and as you see has been deemed insulting.

Consider the usual response to …there are many roads to God…the radical Protestant balks at this…oh no…only Jesus…You have stated your experience as the many roads…

Consider that the majority of Catholics maintain what they believe and feel about their relationship hidden like a precious gem. It is only in places like this and other places where Catholics freely talk to other Catholics about this.

You do not have the experience of the world so you can only speak for the experience of your world. You suffer from generalization and your limited understanding of your experience that you believe is the experience of the world.

 

[CopticChristian]

**For the Christian, **Jesus is not limited to what we know about him from history or from the interpretations of 2 thousand years of thought about him. He possesses a love so strong for you and me and everyone who has ever lived that he would willingly lay down his life, shedding his blood for sinners. His love breaks through time itself and is as strong and real today as it was when he walked this earth. He is in Heaven now interceding for us. He sent the Holy Spirit to be an advocate for us, who also intercedes on our behalf. There is no one more real to me than Jesus. When I have no in this world, I know he is there. I talk to him, I bring him my burdens and my problems, and I am learning to listen to him and hear his voice.

My father is a minister and after years of faith in Christ he has this calm assurance. I remember there was a time when our local church was going through such a horrible time. We actually had to leave it for awhile. The situation was complicated because my father was on the church’s board and most of our family went to the church. There were some really bad things happening, and while my mother was content to just deal with it and keep quiet, my father felt strongly that he had to take a stand. At the time, we had to make some incredibly hard decisions. My dad was ultimately kicked off of the board and we had to leave the church that I grew up with and that my mom had helped dig the foundation out with a spoon as a child. I would listen as my dad and mom would discuss things. My dad spoke about how the Lord told him this or the “I heard the Lord say, ‘Mike …’” Now keep in mind that my dad was not suggesting that he was hearing audible voices from God, but he heard God speaking to him, leading him, and guiding him through some very tough waters.

I always wondered how my dad seemed to be so familiar with Jesus. Then I realized that its because after spending so many years with a person, you do become familiar with them. He is closer to us than the closest friend or brother, and as we spend more time with him we grow closer to him.

Wow, you speak for all Christians…as a Protestant just remmember that when you speak on Fatih and Morals and things relevant to Christ that you speak for yourself…since

You are fallible and you believe it is just you and Jesus…you can never speak for what every other Christian believes, should believe, etc.

Since as a Protestant you can only speak for you…you have no teaching authority on your own, you have no such thing as a Protestant church that defines these things…this is just one

Me and Jesus stating a fallible, unhumble opinion.

Try this on…as a Catholic I can speak for all Catholics when I speak according to the teachings of the OHCAC, teachings handed down to the Apostles from Christ…now I would say that this would be more likely a real Personal Relationship with Christ…doesn’t get more personal than that…

It is like this…Jesus is the CEO and He had certain things he wants all of us to do and know so he set up a way to do it…the Church…so when I speak about these things I am including the infallible teachings that all adhere to…I can speak infallibly and inerrantly even if I am not infallible and inerrant when I speak of that which was handed down…

I can take your opinion and weigh against this and agree or disagree infallibly.

I can in fact speak for all Christians since the Church is the one Authority that speaks for all Christians unlike you.

 

[Miriam1947]

Wow, you speak for all Christians…as a Protestant just remmember that when you speak on Fatih and Morals and things relevant to Christ that you speak for yourself…since

You are fallible and you believe it is just you and Jesus…you can never speak for what every other Christian believes, should believe, etc.

Since as a Protestant you can only speak for you…you have no teaching authority on your own, you have no such thing as a Protestant church that defines these things…this is just one

Me and Jesus stating a fallible, unhumble opinion.

Try this on…as a Catholic I can speak for all Catholics when I speak according to the teachings of the OHCAC, teachings handed down to the Apostles from Christ…now I would say that this would be more likely a real Personal Relationship with Christ…doesn’t get more personal than that…

It is like this…Jesus is the CEO and He had certain things he wants all of us to do and know so he set up a way to do it…the Church…so when I speak about these things I am including the infallible teachings that all adhere to…I can speak infallibly and inerrantly even if I am not infallible and inerrant when I speak of that which was handed down…

I can take your opinion and weigh against this and agree or disagree infallibly.

I can in fact speak for all Christians since the Church is the one Authority that speaks for all Christians unlike you.

Please Coptic, you don’t speak for me in the attitude I see here. The way you put it here was, IMHO, uncharitable.

 

[CopticChristian]

Please Coptic, you don’t speak for me in the attitude I see here. The way you put it here was, IMHO, uncharitable.

I say that there is but one OHCAC
I say that there are 7 Sacraments and you enter the Church through Baptism
I say that we are saved by grace alone, by Faith alone working in love
I say that we are regenerated in Baptism
I say that the deposit of Faith in the OHCAC is the deposit of Faith left to the apostle by Christ.

Do you agree or disagree with the above?

 

[CompSciGuy]

Hello brother. God bless you

I would say more devoted/committed to Christ by living His word…Walking more in the Spirit and less in the flesh…

When we say that someone has “devotion” to something/someone it doesn’t always mean that they worship that object… it means that the person holds something (i.e. scripture) in high esteem and ‘devotes’ a great deal of time to it, and values it. Like, for example, how a good husband is devoted to his family. In this sense, evangelicals do have a very strong devotion to scripture.

 

[CopticChristian]

Please Coptic, you don’t speak for me in the attitude I see here. The way you put it here was, IMHO, uncharitable.

Help me understand what attitude you are judging. I find it difficult to impossible to determine attitude. Ask me a question to clarify this because for me to read into what I believe is an attitude is not within my abililty.

 

[Miriam1947]

For the Christian, Jesus is not limited to what we know about him from history or from the interpretations of 2 thousand years of thought about him. He possesses a love so strong for you and me and everyone who has ever lived that he would willingly lay down his life, shedding his blood for sinners. His love breaks through time itself and is as strong and real today as it was when he walked this earth. He is in Heaven now interceding for us. He sent the Holy Spirit to be an advocate for us, who also intercedes on our behalf. There is no one more real to me than Jesus. When I have no in this world, I know he is there. I talk to him, I bring him my burdens and my problems, and I am learning to listen to him and hear his voice.

My father is a minister and after years of faith in Christ he has this calm assurance. I remember there was a time when our local church was going through such a horrible time. We actually had to leave it for awhile. The situation was complicated because my father was on the church’s board and most of our family went to the church. There were some really bad things happening, and while my mother was content to just deal with it and keep quiet, my father felt strongly that he had to take a stand. At the time, we had to make some incredibly hard decisions. My dad was ultimately kicked off of the board and we had to leave the church that I grew up with and that my mom had helped dig the foundation out with a spoon as a child. I would listen as my dad and mom would discuss things. My dad spoke about how the Lord told him this or the “I heard the Lord say, ‘Mike …’” Now keep in mind that my dad was not suggesting that he was hearing audible voices from God, but he heard God speaking to him, leading him, and guiding him through some very tough waters.

I always wondered how my dad seemed to be so familiar with Jesus. Then I realized that its because after spending so many years with a person, you do become familiar with them. He is closer to us than the closest friend or brother, and as we spend more time with him we grow closer to him.

Wow, you speak for all Christians…as a Protestant just remmember that when you speak on Fatih and Morals and things relevant to Christ that you speak for yourself…since

You are fallible and you believe it is just you and Jesus…you can never speak for what every other Christian believes, should believe, etc.

Since as a Protestant you can only speak for you…you have no teaching authority on your own, you have no such thing as a Protestant church that defines these things…this is just one

Me and Jesus stating a fallible, unhumble opinion.

Try this on…as a Catholic I can speak for all Catholics when I speak according to the teachings of the OHCAC, teachings handed down to the Apostles from Christ…now I would say that this would be more likely a real Personal Relationship with Christ…doesn’t get more personal than that…

It is like this…Jesus is the CEO and He had certain things he wants all of us to do and know so he set up a way to do it…the Church…so when I speak about these things I am including the infallible teachings that all adhere to…I can speak infallibly and inerrantly even if I am not infallible and inerrant when I speak of that which was handed down…

I can take your opinion and weigh against this and agree or disagree infallibly.

I can in fact speak for all Christians since the Church is the one Authority that speaks for all Christians unlike you.

I say that there is but one OHCAC
I say that there are 7 Sacraments and you enter the Church through Baptism
I say that we are saved by grace alone, by Faith alone working in love
I say that we are regenerated in Baptism
I say that the deposit of Faith in the OHCAC is the deposit of Faith left to the apostle by Christ.

Do you agree or disagree with the above?

 

[MartinJordan]

A personal relationship with Jesus Christ doesn’t get any better than taking his Body and Blood The Eucharist. I think it’s sad many Christians take it as symbolic.

Jesus HIMSELF said it “unless you eat and drink the flesh of the Son of Man, you will have no life in you”

There is no doubt Jesus wanted all to be of one mind, one spirit with Him. Alas

John 17:23 - I in them, and thou in me; that they may be made perfect in one: and the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast also loved me.

MJ

 

[Miriam1947]

They’ll know we are Christians by our love - Greatest song of all time

Yep