Personal relationship with Jesus Christ

[GandalfTheWhite]

I have problem with the entire process the church has regarding sainthood…what would happen for example if the church decided that Mother Teresa is not a saint and makes a declaration stating this as fact.

As far as I know the Church doesn’t make claims about who is not in heaven and thus would not say that Mother Teresa is not a saint (remember that ALL those in heaven are saints).

Would i , as a catholic , have to believe this is as an absolute truth?

If a Church made such an infallible statement about Mother Teresa then yes. The thing is that the Church doesn’t make such claims.

My gran was a very humble and devout Catholic…do i need the churches permission to believe that she is in heaven.

No. Absolutely not. But you cannot be 100% sure…unlike with St. Padre Pio for example.

Also why the necessity of ’ proving ’ miracles through a person before sainthood is granted? I personally see this as a lack of faith when we look for signs of a miracle.

The miracles are signs that God is working through that person. Of course the miracles are also clearly pointing to the existence of our Lord, which is however not the point of looking at these miracles during the canonization process. For example consider the miracles of incorruptibility or healing.

To my mind miracles are happening around me everyday…like when a baby is born or a person with cancer is prayed for , and is suddenly healed.

Sure, but we also believe that God works especially through the most holy people - sometimes even to the extend that their holiness is almost materially evident. Their bodies do not decay and smell of e.g. roses, they heal unhealable, they get visions etc.

Or have i missed the boat here…please do not shoot me down with your responses ; the church must be able to stand up to scrutiny and challenges from it’s members !

Why would we? If these are honest questions then you deserve honest answers so you may be led to the foulness of truth.

In Christ!
~G

 

[JimG]

My gran was a very humble and devout Catholic…do i need the churches permission to believe that she is in heaven.

Of course not. The Church makes no declarations about who is NOT in heaven. The canonization of a saint is a declaration that someone IS in heaven and is held up as an example of virtue for us.

There is nothing to prevent you from believing the same about your gran. If she had a following, you could even promote her cause for an official declaration of sainthood, but it is not necessary.

I know of some very good people whom I have no doubt are in heaven; I have no problem addressing prayers to them to ask for their prayers for me. I do not propose to begin their cause for sainthood.

 

[DB_AND_ALI]

Of course not. The Church makes no declarations about who is NOT in heaven. The canonization of a saint is a declaration that someone IS in heaven and is held up as an example of virtue for us.

There is nothing to prevent you from believing the same about your gran. If she had a following, you could even promote her cause for an official declaration of sainthood, but it is not necessary.

I know of some very good people whom I have no doubt are in heaven; I have no problem addressing prayers to them to ask for their prayers for me. I do not propose to begin their cause for sainthood.

Thankyou to GandalfTheWhite and JimG for these replies…they have helped in my understanding of the faith.

 

[Gamera]

“…man [is] himself created in the image of God and called to a personal relationship with God.” – Catechism of the Catholic Church 299.

 

[c_mat]

The problem I have is not one of asking the saints for intercession, but actually addressing Mary or the saints as if they were God. This is something that really bothers me, and growing up in India I saw a lot of friends and relatives doing this superstitiously. I don’t understand what is the meaning of this as a Protestant and why the Catholic church would allow this…

For example…(from a Novena to Mary)

O Mother of Perpetual Help, * we call upon your most powerful name. * You are the safeguard of the living and the salvation of the dying. * Your name will always be on our lips * especially in time of temptation, * and at the hour of our death. * Your name is confidence and power. * Blessed Lady, * help us whenever we call on you. * We will not be satisfied * with merely pronouncing your name. * Our daily lives will proclaim * that you are truly Our Mother of Perpetual Help.

Prayer In Temporal Wants
ALL: O Mother of Perpetual Help, * with the greatest confidence we kneel before you. * We implore your help in the problems of our daily life. * Trials and sorrows often depress us; * reverses of fortune and painful privations * bring misery into our lives; * everywhere we meet the cross. * Have pity on us, compassionate Mother. * Take care of our needs, * free us from our sufferings * or if it be the will of God * that we should suffer still longer * grant that we may endure all with love and patience. * These graces we ask, * trusting not in our merits * but in your love and power. * O Mother of Perpetual Help.

I mean when I’m dying, wouldn’t I want to call upon God and not Mary? And that too asking Mary for salvation…? This is all so confusing to me…

 

[nilofc]

This is what confuses me–if we don’t “need” Mary/Saints to pray for us and have direct access to God through Jesus, why would we? Why not go straight to the source 100% of the time? Why would raise my hand in class and ask a question to the student teacher when the professor is right there willing to answer? …

yes brother…i can see your confusion.

You see unless you’re in heaven now then you can truly say that you’re in the same “classroom” with the saints.

…and why not go to the source all the time? Ahhh because Jesus Himself, established the sacraments.

Would you and your better half just raise your hands to heaven and say loudly “GOD!! MARRY US!!”.

I don’t think so.

Peace bro.