Personalities and Faith

[kalt]

Another thread brought up these questions.

Does a church’s personality determine in any degree/way what you think/know about that particular faith’s doctrines?

(personality - friendliness, welcoming to new-comers, % of members involved in extra-service/Mass activities (volunteerism, coffee an’), etc)

What is more important, doctrine or personality?

 

[PhiJ]

Though I’m not quite sure what you mean by the question, I’ve got enough of an idea to have some opinions.

Somebody else on some other thread (can’t remember the thread or person) triggered this thought, so ‘A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.’ (Jn 13:34-35) My instinct (and limited scriptural knowledge) says that this is most important: do they love God and one another?

Actually that’s incredibly important. I’d say next is doctrine. Of course they must be saved, and we must agree with the most major points of doctrine, like the deity of christ. I’d take questions like do they believe in the gifts of the spirit, and do they exercise them as very important, but I wonder if I’d overemphasise that. Questions like are they friendly, are they welcoming, are more minor. You could join and be friendly and welcoming, although it is hard to find much about them if they are not friendly and welcoming. Something like ‘involvement in extra-service activities’ should flow out of their love for christ, and of course it’s possible that most people may not be able to for good reasons.

So yeh, how much do they love christ and one another. How much do they desire to honour him. I suppose I neglect that every church will have people on the fringes, some may even have non-believers who are regular attenders, but still, love is the important point.

I feel really inadequate now. Thank God for mercy.

 

[JonNC]

Actually that’s incredibly important. I’d say next is doctrine. Of course they must be saved, and we must agree with the most major points of doctrine, like the deity of christ. I’d take questions like do they believe in the gifts of the spirit, and do they exercise them as very important, but I wonder if I’d overemphasise that. Questions like are they friendly, are they welcoming, are more minor. You could join and be friendly and welcoming, although it is hard to find much about them if they are not friendly and welcoming. Something like ‘involvement in extra-service activities’ should flow out of their love for christ, and of course it’s possible that most people may not be able to for good reasons.

So yeh, how much do they love christ and one another. How much do they desire to honour him. I suppose I neglect that every church will have people on the fringes, some may even have non-believers who are regular attenders, but still, love is the important point.

I think you make a very good statement here when you say “next to doctrine”, as that places a priority on things. Of, course, actually knowing who is saved or not is known only to God, so I don’t see how we can use that measure.
You should love the Lord your God, and your neighbor as yourself. Doctrine, and how we treat others.
BTW, welcome to CAF.
Jon

 

[ferdie]

I think you make a very good statement here when you say “next to doctrine”, as that places a priority on things. Of, course, actually knowing who is saved or not is known only to God, so I don’t see how we can use that measure.
You should love the Lord your God, and your neighbor as yourself. Doctrine, and how we treat others.
BTW, welcome to CAF.
Jon

To know that a person faith is standing on solid ground, I think doctrines should come first, then personalities and faith.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

I don’t agree with your lumping of items in “personality.” Surely no one should pick a faith community based on it’s coffee hour! But doctrine, what we have to believe should be evidenced by what the Church actually does. If the church in mind is not clearly dedicated to using every penny it can to solve follow Jesus teachings and help its members be fully service oriented, then it’s teachings are hollow words unfit to claim any one to them.

I place a demonstrated understanding of what is expected as a follow of Jesus well ahead of formal dogma. The church that does the work of Christ is the one I would and have joined.

 

[PhiJ]

JonNC:

Of, course, actually knowing who is saved or not is known only to God, so I don’t see how we can use that measure.

What I meant by that, was that if a church says that they believe in four God’s, the God of Hate, the God of Lust, the God of Pain and the God of Death, then you know that they are not saved. (In the real world, you can be pretty sure they are being sarcastic, but hopefully you get my point)

Thinking about it a little further, there’s (I suppose everybody but me saw this) a balance required, and if a church is terrible on doctrine, or hating one another, or simply not obeying God, they’re right out, and if they’re perfect on two of those points and not on the other, they’re right out too.

But how would this work practically. Maybe I need anecdotes from people who have been ‘church searching’ in the past (and not just visited one church and stayed like me).

So first are probably the most important doctrines, then do they love God and one another, and does their love for God express itself in obedience. The first is more easy to discover, finding out if they love one another could be quite difficult. You’d hope their love for God would come out in what they say, but I’m bottled up enough for new people to probably estimate that I have no love for God if their only contact with me was one conversation. And I expect you’d probably have to have been with a church for a while, or be investigating them quite hard to determine their obedience (unless something major and difficult has happened, or something).

As some of those look really difficult to determine, maybe in real life I’d go for doctrine (I hope not though), but theologically I think that apart from the most important points of doctrine, the only way I’m going to be able to guess if they are Jesus’ disciples is by their love for one another.

Oh, and thanks for the welcome. I hope I won’t be a transient visitor, but will stay at least until I understand the basics of catholic doctrine. Can’t guarantee it though.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Another thread brought up these questions.

Does a church’s personality determine in any degree/way what you think/know about that particular faith’s doctrines?

(personality - friendliness, welcoming to new-comers, % of members involved in extra-service/Mass activities (volunteerism, coffee an’), etc)

What is more important, doctrine or personality?

I don’t think a particular parishes demeanor to visitors is going to give you an idea if it is the worst or best place to be if your concern is doing what you believe God wants you to do. God did not promise happy times in worship anyway. Even though they may end up being that way, it is not a litmus test for a place God wants you to be in.

 

[Reuben_J]

I don’t think a particular parishes demeanor to visitors is going to give you an idea if it is the worst or best place to be if your concern is doing what you believe God wants you to do. God did not promise happy times in worship anyway. Even though they may end up being that way, it is not a litmus test for a place God wants you to be in.

I would put myself closer to this but that because the reality out there is anything but such. Coming from a Catholic background and from a big archdiocese it’s a never ending frustration to see the ‘church’ acts more and more like a corporate institution. You cannot do this or that, you cannot park here and there, you have to follow the queue, and so on and so forth. The worst part is parishioners tend to behave that way too that the needs for the goodness of being friendly and caring seem to be overlooked.

I have some good Protestants friends in business circle and often got invited to their churches especially during big occasions like well-known speakers coming to town. Their greeters always impressed me and wish the same could be found in our cathedral. In my area, protestant churches are rather comparatively small that you thought it would be quite easy to spot a new comer.

I thought loving one another is not only important but because it is a calling; that’s why it is important in a life of a believer.

I wonder what is meant by the love that Jesus really wants of us. Is it the one Paul talks about in 1Cor 13 or is it the one like what the Good Samaritan did? I suppose it’s ultimately what we did as preferred by the great judge on Judgment day – do to the least of his brethren.

I have seen many great personalities in my parish who truly give their lives for others – who gave everything until there is none left for themselves. A few who left their multi-million wealth of their families and experiences worldly poverty to serve the Lord without any payment whatsoever other than the charity of those who appreciate them.

Too much focusing on giving to the Lord’s people does not mean that we do not improve the flaw in our personal character. On the other hand being pleasant and friendly is a skill that can be learned if one makes the effort. Perhaps for starters we should meet the archbishop and suggest stationing greeters at church entrances before every mass.

God bless.

 

[PhiJ]

Reuben J:

I wonder what is meant by the love that Jesus really wants of us. Is it the one Paul talks about in 1Cor 13 or is it the one like what the Good Samaritan did? I suppose it’s ultimately what we did as preferred by the great judge on Judgment day – do to the least of his brethren.

Or is it the love that Jesus did? It appears that all three are the same love.