Personality Disorders

[LSK]

rayne89:

I found this very enlightening
toad.net/~arcturus/dd/histrion.htm

Histrionic Personality Disorder

Individuals with HPD view themselves as gregarious, sociable, friendly, and agreeable. They consider themselves to be charming, stimulating, and well-liked. They value the capacity to attract people via their physical appearance and by appearing to be interesting and active people. For individuals with HPD, indications of internal distress, weakness, depression, or hostility are denied or suppressed and are not included in their sense of themselves.

The HPD self is experienced as a small, fearful, and defective child who has to cope in a world dominated by powerful others.This view of themselves as less powerful allows these individuals to absolve themselves from responsibility for their own behavior and to engage in manipulative behavior with others to force attention and care-taking They will behave in a seductive and enticing manner until they are denied what they are seeking. Individuals with HPD become intensely angry toward others they see as withholding.

Individuals with HPD focus on others to the point that they obtain their own identity from those to whom they are attached. Yet the attention they focus on others does not allow them to gain understanding of others or to become effectively empathic. Their intense observation skills are dedicated to determining what behaviors, attitudes, or feelings are most likely to result in winning the admiration and approval of others. Essentially, these individuals watch other people watch them. Their actual focus is on how they are doing and how they are being received by others. As a result, they are not particularly effective in understanding how others are feeling. Individuals with HPD are inclined to define relationships with or connections to others as closer or more significant than they really are. They do not see when they are being humored or placated by people who may have lost patience with their relentless need for attention and the failure to relate in a genuine way. Others may eventually withhold their own efforts to relate to individuals with HPD once they become aware that there is no real attempt to connect – rather there is a continuing demand to be attended to and admired. Basically, it is analogous to how well the actor or actress actually “knows” their audience beyond reading whether or not the performance is being well received.

The HPD failure to view others realistically is reflected by their difficulties in developing and sustaining satisfactory relationships. Individuals with HPD tend to have stormy relationships that start out as ideal and end up as disasters (Beck, 1990, p. 214). These individuals are unable to tolerate isolation; when alone, they feel desperate and are unable to wait for new relationships to develop gradually (Horowitz, Horowitz, ed., 1991, p. 4). They will idealize the significant other early in the relationship and often see the connection as more intimate than it really is. If the significant others begin to distance themselves from the incessant demands, individuals with HPD will use dramatics and demonstrativeness to bind these people to the relationship. They will resort to crying, coercion, temper tantrums, assaultive behavior and suicidal gestures to avoid rejection (Beck, 1990, p. 51).

On the surface, in HPD relationships, there is warmth, energy, and responsiveness. Covertly, this behavior is accompanied by a “secretly disrespectful agenda of forcing delivery of the desired nurturance and love. . .manipulative suicidal attempts are examples of such coercions” (Benjamin, 1993, p. 173). Individuals with HPD have a strong fear of being ignored; they long to be loved and taken care of by someone who is both powerful and able to be controlled through the use of charm and seductiveness. They become helpless and childlike when faced with potential rejection

WOW! That is FABULOUS information. Combine this with the Patron Saints and I think I may have been given some great advice on how to “love the sinner, hate the sin”. Thank you!

 

[LSK]

(Continued from above)

These individuals remain immature and childlike in their behavior. Through repression, individuals with HPD remain unaware that their thoughts and feelings are attached to their behavior. Accordingly, they claim innocence when their conduct results in interpersonal conflict

This is the part I find fascinating…and I have to admit it is what I also find the most difficult to interact with; they appear to be so ‘problem oriented’ rather than ‘solution oriented’. I don’t mean those times we all need to just vent or rant (My Mother-in-law critized my macaroni salad again! Next time it ends up in a heap on her head, I swear!). I mean those people who have ongoing, hateful relationships with people that they refuse to disengage from…my belief is that (with exceptions, of course) most problems in my life are of my own making, especially when dealing with other people. If I look hard at my own behavior I can usually see where I have set the ball rolling - either being overly sensitive or not sensitive enough. What I have noted about the two or three people in my life who may or may not be HPD types (Shoot, I am not a doctor so I cannot diagnose anyone) is that successful interaction with them seemed to be thwarted at every turn, until I just had to disengage completely in order to not be drawn into the madness.

Does that make sense?

 

[LSK]

Feanaro's Wife:

My observations have been that everyone has problems. Smart people, dumb people, rich people, poor people, people of all colors and races and religions…

What I have noticed is that the people who seem overwhelmed by many problems all at once usually have very poor coping skills.

They never learned how to deal with problems (maybe mom and dad always “saved” them…maybe they didn’t experience consequences…)

It doesn’t really matter why. They see themselves as victims, therefore they are not responsible. Until one takes responsibilty things cannot change. And no, taking responsibilty for one’s part in a particular problem does not make it miraculously go away…but it sure gets easier to deal with. Sometimes just changing our perspective just a little can make a huge difference.

The point is that life does not have to be that way. Especially for a person of faith. We have the ultimate resource for dealing with life’s troubles and stresses…I don’t have to tell you what that is do I?

Malia

I agree, Malia. I also think that “look at me I’m so incredibly intelligent I cannot help but be misunderstood” is a bit of a cop out. One of the funniest things about going to my 12 step meetings is that inevitably someone will talk about how we - the members - are these incredibly intelligent, creative people with all this potential and blah blah blah. Now that may or may not be true on an individual level, but I have noticed (and I noticed this with myself when I was new to recovery) that I could be “too smart to get well”.

 

[LSK]

vluvski:

that sounds like me
But then again, I can sometimes be a hypochondriac

OH GAWD I hope you meant that as a joke. If you didn’t I apologize for being insensitive…and I have to tell you all you have given me some great insights, some great advice and some good references and places to find answers.

I sponsor a lot of women in my 12 step group, and while I am not a trained psychologist or counselor I try to be aware of different aspects of personalities and disorders so I can police myself by not trying to teach the pig to sing opera.

Thanks, everyone!

 

[DJgang]

With a lot of tact, a lot of distance, a lot of support, and a lot of self-worth.

**Tact **to gracefully deal with such veiled insults in a positive way. (I’m doing fine, Betsy! Thanks for asking! I saw that your flowers are blooming beautifully…)

Distance so that you don’t have to deal with it that often. (If not physical, than emotional.)

Support for when you are being worn down. (God, saints, spouse, sibling, friends…)

Self-worth so that you know that this is not a problem with you, but a problem with them.

---

Depending on how close the person is to you (close relative?), you might also need one good sized helping of firmness as well.

(Mom, I love you dearly. I will not allow you to talk to me like that. I’ll call back in a couple days to check on you.)

If the person is distant (some person on a chat board you’ve never known?), then you might need some perspective. Simply pray for them.

AKA “playing possom” - Great Advice - This works for me.

 

[LSK]

I like that - playing possum…my biggest mistake is I allow myself to get drawn into the discussion…playing possum is GOOD advice for me to take. Thank you!

 

[sparkle]

LSK:

WOW! That is FABULOUS information. Combine this with the Patron Saints and I think I may have been given some great advice on how to “love the sinner, hate the sin”. Thank you!

Yes, it is very good information. But I, personally, would not go so far as to call someone with a personality disorder a “sinner”.

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

sparkle:

Yes, it is very good information. But I, personally, would not go so far as to call someone with a personality disorder a “sinner”.

All of us are sinners. Some sin more than others. People with some types of disorders (usually the ones focused more on themselves) tend to sin more because they are not as considerate of others’ feelings.

I sin, you sin, we all sin! I am not going to tippy toe around someone with a personality disorder and call them a saint…they ain’t! LOL.

Malia

 

[Island_Oak]

I would agree with the earlier observation that those gifted with with high IQs and/or exceptional creativity/giftedness seem somewhat more prone to personality quirks/disorders/conflicts than the average bear. This is purely anecdotal and based on experience and first hand observation–not a scientific fact. But the pattern seems to repeat itself again and again…

 

[La_Chiara]

Island Oak:

I would agree with the earlier observation that those gifted with with high IQs and/or exceptional creativity/giftedness seem somewhat more prone to personality quirks/disorders/conflicts than the average bear. This is purely anecdotal and based on experience and first hand observation–not a scientific fact. But the pattern seems to repeat itself again and again…

I suspect this observation is not supported by scientific evidence. Probably people who have high IQs, are exceptionally creative, or are otherwise gifted are looked at more closely (with envy). When the “fatal flaw” is perceived, the envious are smug. My own unscientific observations are that those less gifted do not have a monopoly on mental and emotional well-being. Far from it.:twocents:

(Can you tell with which group I identify? )

 

[Forest-Pine]

La Chiara:

I suspect this observation is not supported by scientific evidence. Probably people who have high IQs, are exceptionally creative, or are otherwise gifted are looked at more closely (with envy). When the “fatal flaw” is perceived, the envious are smug. My own unscientific observations are that those less gifted do not have a monopoly on mental and emotional well-being. Far from it.:twocents:

(Can you tell with which group I identify? )

You made me chuckle. But you are right. Those with issues are far more likely to stand out to the observer than those without. Without issues, the observer does not notice the person or take account of his IQ. While there is a higher incidence of mental illness among those with high IQ/high creativity, it is not a large group of people just the same.

Anyone else see that Drew Carey Show where Lewis goes to the Mensa meeting?

*But exactly who are the members of Mensa? Simply put, everyone. Some Mensans are on welfare while others are millionaires. Some have never finished high school and others have multiple doctorates. There are Mensans who are lawyers and scientists as well as Mensans who are janitors, artists and truck drivers. There’s no typical member, although most are between the ages of 20 and 60. *

 

[La_Chiara]

Forest-Pine:

1. While there is a higher incidence of mental illness among those with high IQ/high creativity, it is not a large group of people just the same.

*2. But exactly who are the members of Mensa? Simply put, everyone. Some Mensans are on welfare while others are millionaires. Some have never finished high school and others have multiple doctorates. There are Mensans who are lawyers and scientists as well as Mensans who are janitors, artists and truck drivers. There’s no typical member, although most are between the ages of 20 and 60. *

1. Says who that “there is a higher incidence of mental illness among those with high IQ or high creativity”? That gets tossed around a lot as a purported “fact”. But where is the evidence–statistical or scientific support for that contention?
2. Actually, I don’t agree with this either. The members of Mensa are a small fraction of those who could qualify to be in Mensa. So who are the members of Mensa? Those who have a need to flaunt their high IQs! Plenty of brilliant people are leading their lives without feeling a need to join Mensa. Indeed, those brilliant people who are the best adjusted–psychologically and emotionally–are not “janitors, artists, and truck drivers”. They are economists, professors, actuaries, Supreme Court Justices, etc.

 

[Forest-Pine]

1. Says who that “there is a higher incidence of mental illness among those with high IQ or high creativity”? That gets tossed around a lot as a purported “fact”. But where is the evidence–statistical or scientific support for that contention?

That was well covered in a previous post. I encourage you to read post #14.

1. Actually, I don’t agree with this either. The members of Mensa are a small fraction of those who could qualify to be in Mensa.

You are of course correct. The people who qualify to join Mensa are those scoring in the 98th percentile or higher on a standardized test. They are the people with the highest 2% of measured IQs in the world. One would have to take an IQ test, desire to join Mensa, submit an application, pay dues, etc. As 2% of the world’s population is easily quantifiable, and the ranks of Mensa are not that large, your logic would stand to reason. However, Mensa is growing exponentially, and is active in well over 100 countries. (Including many poorer countries.)

So who are the members of Mensa? Those who have a need to flaunt their high IQs!

My oh my! Isn’t that a terrible stereotype! While some undoubtedly do join just to have bragging rights, many others enjoy social interactions with others. It is said that every 5 point spread in IQs makes communication more difficult. I’m not going to look it up as it was on a marriage compatibility article I saw long ago, and I am only saying it anecdotally. Nonetheless, many more I am sure enjoy the mental stimulation they don’t get in their regular lives.

Plenty of brilliant people are leading their lives without feeling a need to join Mensa. Indeed, those brilliant people who are the best adjusted–psychologically and emotionally–are not “janitors, artists, and truck drivers”. They are economists, professors, actuaries, Supreme Court Justices, etc.

Professors and Supreme Court justices have the added advantage of being in a profession with a higher average IQ for their colleagues. They get to flex their mental muscles and have social circles with smarter than average individuals. It would stand to reason that they do not need to seek out a social club for this purpose. Are you arguing that a janitor cannot be psychologically and emotionally well adjusted, as well as intelligent? Or that a person who fit this criteria would not demean himself by being a janitor?

I posted that quote not as a commercial for Mensa (which, I will point out, I am NOT a member of), but to highlight that those who do score in the top 2% are from all walks of life. I do not understand your animosity. Is it to those with high IQs? Janitors and truck drivers? Or Mensa in general?

 

[msh]

Speaking as a person diagnosed at 14 with a long string of cool sounding mental ‘disorders’, I can say that what most cases tend to boil down to in my experience over the last decade is maturity. Readiness to accept a problem, find a solution and get over it. Is it so black and white? Sometimes it is not, but for the majority of diagnosed people I have known, the maturity level does loads for the lack of drama.

The best way to handle any person intent on harm (and harm can fall under being manipulative, purposeful aggression, inciting verbal abuse against someone) is to take them on a mature ground. If they are making you miserable, bid them farewell and remove yourself from the situation. You cannot always help someone who is driven by that sort of mean feeling, but you can prevent yourself from being affected by their behavior.

Illness or not, if people are unable to cope with their surroundings and act reasonable, the best solution is to not become party to their reactions. If they say something mean to you, thank them for their commentary and politely ignore them. People who tend to enjoy acting like that hate for the attention to go away. When you remove the attention, you remove the reaction.

I cannot say this works always, and if you are worried about someone being a danger to themselves or others, it’s best to inform someone who can handle it and let them know.

 

[LSK]

Speaking as a person diagnosed at 14 with a long string of cool sounding mental ‘disorders’, I can say that what most cases tend to boil down to in my experience over the last decade is maturity. Readiness to accept a problem, find a solution and get over it. Is it so black and white? Sometimes it is not, but for the majority of diagnosed people I have known, the maturity level does loads for the lack of drama.

Great insight, thank you. I do think a lot of the need for drama and conflict displayed by these personality types can be addressed by maturity and wisdom - and that takes time and growing up. But I also think there are some who simply cannot, for whatever reason, see their way to ever taking personal responsibility for ANYTHING - and see every problem in someone ELSE as an excuse for getting attention by jumping into the middle of it. I wonder if it’s a lack of emotional maturity?

The best way to handle any person intent on harm (and harm can fall under being manipulative, purposeful aggression, inciting verbal abuse against someone) is to take them on a mature ground. If they are making you miserable, bid them farewell and remove yourself from the situation. You cannot always help someone who is driven by that sort of mean feeling, but you can prevent yourself from being affected by their behavior.

That is, I think excellent advice. I know that I am happier in the past DAY by disengaging from one person I was trying to give opera singing lessons to…

Illness or not, if people are unable to cope with their surroundings and act reasonable, the best solution is to not become party to their reactions. If they say something mean to you, thank them for their commentary and politely ignore them. People who tend to enjoy acting like that hate for the attention to go away. When you remove the attention, you remove the reaction.

Yup.

I cannot say this works always, and if you are worried about someone being a danger to themselves or others, it’s best to inform someone who can handle it and let them know

Wise words. Thank you.

OH! I have to share this with all of you…from the age of 18 until I was 37 I was a card carrying member of Mensa. Then I got sober and had to learn a brand new way to live. At 2 years sober they asked me to come back to the local chapter and I told them I didn’t feel qualified anymore. My IQ still qualified, but by having to learn how to act in the world without crying for attention, blaming everyone else, and renewing my Catholic Faith in a way that has brought me nothing but joy, I felt I needed to start a new club for people like me - the ones ‘growing up’ all over again.

I suggested the name: Densa.

No one thought that was funny and no one wanted to join.

oh well…

 

[LSK]

sparkle:

Yes, it is very good information. But I, personally, would not go so far as to call someone with a personality disorder a “sinner”.

I was speaking in a literalist sense - in the same way Catholic Christians are taught to read Holy Scripture.

And, in a literal sense - if the person with a personality disorder is a human being, then sister they are a sinner.

 

[Island_Oak]

LSK:

…I felt I needed to start a new club for people like me - the ones ‘growing up’ all over again.
I suggested the name: Densa. No one thought that was funny and no one wanted to join. oh well…

Can relate to not wanting to join for fear of being exposed…but you found one closet Densa member with a sense of humor.

 

[msh]

I like the name of Densa. :lol: For some reason it definitely conveys 'people with sufficient knowledge to have a sense of humor".