Perspective from a protestant catholic

[TLM08]

I knew that title would seem nuts, but being born catholic and having a love and respect for the faith, I cannot seem to leave catholicism altogether. So this is really what I am. Besides, most (not all) catholics are living a protestant lifestyle anyway, they just won’t admit it.

I’ve read all the apologetics material one man can stand and have been on both sides of the protestant/catholic debate for years. I’ve left the church and came back and bounced inbetween. The only thing that is very clear to me is that there is very little difference in appearance between novus ordo catholicism and the typical protestant church service.

I have a tremendous amount of respect for traditional catholicism due to the fact that Catholic dogma is often taught during homily at the Traditional Latin Mass. Why did the catholic church back away from it’s traditional look and feel after Vatican II? The only time I have ever heard the phrase “mortal sin” or the word “purgatory” is at the Latin Mass. If this is such an important teaching of catholicism. Why the silence?

Could this abandonment be an effort to retain church members after the highly controversial decision by the Pope on artificial birth control? If not, what in the world has been going on?

 

[BayernAnhaenger]

I knew that title would seem nuts, but being born catholic and having a love and respect for the faith, I cannot seem to leave catholicism altogether. So this is really what I am. Besides, most (not all) catholics are living a protestant lifestyle anyway, they just won’t admit it.

I’ve read all the apologetics material one man can stand and have been on both sides of the protestant/catholic debate for years. I’ve left the church and came back and bounced inbetween. The only thing that is very clear to me is that there is very little difference in appearance between novus ordo catholicism and the typical protestant church service.

I have a tremendous amount of respect for traditional catholicism due to the fact that Catholic dogma is often taught during homily at the Traditional Latin Mass. Why did the catholic church back away from it’s traditional look and feel after Vatican II? The only time I have ever heard the phrase “mortal sin” or the word “purgatory” is at the Latin Mass. If this is such an important teaching of catholicism. Why the silence?

Could this abandonment be an effort to retain church members after the highly controversial decision by the Pope on artificial birth control? If not, what in the world has been going on?

Don’t leave the Church. That’s the first and foremost thing. Do not leave Her.

The CC never backed away from Teaching, but Her priests and bishops did. People who thought it was ok to do what they want, people who thought sin doesn’t need to be talked about, and people who just want to feel good at Mass, if they even bother to go. The liberals and Modernists of the Church are the ones who have been tearing Her down for the past 40 years. It was nothing more than a silent revolt when Humanae Vitae was issued, and was ignored.

It will take years to solve this problem, and re-catechize everyone, but the future is looking up, ever since Pope Benedict XVI restored the Traditional Latin Mass.

 

[Dempsey1919]

Besides, most (not all) catholics are living a protestant lifestyle anyway, they just won’t admit it.

Please explain. How are most Catholics living a protestant lifestyle?

 

[TLM08]

Please explain. How are most Catholics living a protestant lifestyle?

Have you noticed Mass attendance on holy days of obligation? …attendance to regular confession? …adhearance to the ban on artificial birth control? … belief in the real presence hovering around 50% or less?

Obviously those who may be reading these forums are not likely to be included in this group. I am speaking of the average person who was born after 1950 or so and raised catholic in the USA.

They obviously do not believe that according to catholic teaching that this behavior will (unless repented) send them directly to Hell.

 

[nmoerbeek]

Please explain. How are most Catholics living a protestant lifestyle?

He might be referring to most catholics using birth control (see article)

Or perhaps he read this article Although I did not check their sources and have no idea of the validity.

 

[Dempsey1919]

Have you noticed Mass attendance on holy days of obligation? …attendance to regular confession? …adhearance to the ban on artificial birth control? … belief in the real presence hovering around 50% or less?

You have described lukewarm and dissident Catholics. If these lukewarm and dissident Catholics are leading a ''protestant lifestyle" does that mean that protestants are also lukewarm and dissident?

Faithful Catholics practice the Catholic faith and believe in the teachings of the Church. Faithful Protestants practice their religion and believe in the teachings of their denomination.

A faithful protestant is not a hypocrite. Saying that an unfaithful Catholic is leading a “protestant lifestyle” does not do justice to devout protestants who really practice their faith.

 

[adelore]

I was born in 1957 and yes I am one of those Craddle Catholics that Was Not taught that birth control was wrong. In fact the topic of Birth Control **never **even came up. However, we were taught that aboration is wrong and is murder.

Truely there are a lot of Catholics who were raised in my “time frame” that were Not taught many of the things I now know. In fact it took finding this “forum” and plenty of “other” Catholic information out there on the net, to learn things I had Never even heard of with our faith. To this day I have Never heard anything thing in Church against “Birth Control”. I do hear a lot about the sin of abortion.

In fact as a younger child and teenager, if a friend wanted me to visit their church, my parents made me call the Priest and ask for permission. We had several Priest while I grew up and always they said it was ok for me to go visit someone elses church. Now that I look back on that…truely was that a good thing? Letting me go to someone else church?

I left the Catholic church for over 25 years…at age 19, for many reasons…yes I’m back now…but truely sometimes someone elses church, with all the “friendlyness, activites, teen night, ect .” that they have is a big influence…on a young mind.

It caused me to leave, as I thought, how cool is this, I can have Christian Friends, do Bible Studies, and Christain things active within their church. I’m not saying it was right, but at the age I was and for years I was drawn to this. Protesents do have more “active” things going on, then the Catholic Parishs around here.

So I do understand where this poster is comming from.

 

[convert999]

Being an ex-Protestant myself, I think I know what the OP means in saying that many Catholics are leading a “protestant lifestyle.” Protestants believe they have the freedom to interpret Christianity however they please, using Sola Scriptura. Very few Protestants believe everything their denomination teaches, and this is perfectly legitimate for them, and even for their denominations. Some Catholics I have encountered in my short (so far) journey seem to also believe they can “pick and choose” what to believe, especially about birth control. This is the essence of the the Protestant lifestyle. Debbie

 

[cymonk]

I left the Catholic church for over 25 years…at age 19, for many reasons…yes I’m back now…but truely sometimes someone elses church, with all the “friendlyness, activites, teen night, ect .” that they have is a big influence…on a young mind.

It caused me to leave, as I thought, how cool is this, I can have Christian Friends, do Bible Studies, and Christain things active within their church. I’m not saying it was right, but at the age I was and for years I was drawn to this. Protesents do have more “active” things going on, then the Catholic Parishs around here.QUOTE]

Being a craddle catholic, I didn’t experiment with other churches until I was in college. I found that there were some pretty attractive things going on in other churches. As much as I was drawn to those things… There was a stronger calling for the Eucharist… something we can only get from the Catholic Church. That calling solidified my faith into the church… but I still felt drawn to those other activities. And that is when I realized God was giving me a calling to start these activities in my own parish. So got off my duff and started a young adults group… it was great! I hope I can encourage adelore and whomever reads this to do something themselves to help the church be better as opposed to finding it somewhere else.

TLM08: I hope and pray that you can find the truth I found in the Eucharist yourself… this will call you to a home in the church, regardless of what is being taught in homilies. I would suggest looking around for the teachings you are talking about…as I know they are present in my neck of the woods. If not, perhaps it is a call for you to start some sort of program…? Remember, we are supposed to be doing more than Sunday mass with our faith. If we see a part missing, help it.

God Bless you all,
cymonk

 

[Lancer]

TLM08Perspective from a protestant catholic.
…Besides, most (not all) catholics are living a protestant lifestyle anyway, they just won’t admit it.

…The only thing that is very clear to me is that there is very little difference in appearance between **novus ordo catholicism and the typical protestant church service. **

I have a*** tremendous amount of respect*** for traditional catholicism due to the fact that Catholic dogma is often taught during homily at the Traditional Latin Mass. Why did the catholic church back away from it’s traditional look and*** feel*** after Vatican II? The only time I have ever heard the phrase “mortal sin” or the word “purgatory” is at the Latin Mass. If this is such an important teaching of catholicism. Why the silence?

Could this abandonment be an effort to retain church members after the highly controversial decision by the Pope on artificial birth control? If not, what in the world has been going on?

For your consideration…First and foremost…You are a Catholic…you need to Come Home to your Church and Family catholicscomehome.org/former-Catholic.phtml
Now…some “bones” to pick with you…in charity…because we need you back in the Church…the Family is not complete without you!

1 “…most [C]catholics…” ?..What does that mean?..51%…Disagree with that premise. A Catholic is someone who practices their faith…some who do practice the Catholic faith…do reject some parts of the Church’s teachings…but I hardly think that*** “most”*** fall into that category…most of those who do go to Church every Sunday…they follow the Church’s teachings in full…still fall short as sinners in need of God’s graces and forgiveness…but they are not cafeteria Catholics.

1. “…very little difference…”. You gotta be kidding me. Even in your disdain for the Novus Ordo Mass…you must admit that the Real Presence of Jesus Christ is there…and his Real Glorified Body and Blood are consumed by the faithful at Mass. What part of that is exactly like your protestant service? Also, the Church before Vatican II (Traditional) was not about “look” and “feel”…it was then and is now about** fidelity to Our Lord Jesus Christ**…all that he revealed…all he taught…and all he commanded the Apostles to do through his Church…his Body…the Body of Christ with himself as the head and the Pope as the Vicar of Christ on Earth.
2. What do you believe is the mandatory first response to the gift of God’s grace and Faith? In a word: ** Obedience!** Don’t disobey God…and leave His Church because you can’t understand everything that is going on in the Church…or why it is happening…in other words, you are suffering because of the Church and its members are not “holy enough and saints” in your judgment…rest assured Our Lord Jesus is suffering more than you or me on this account. Okay, why should you be obedient and stay regardless of the situation?a. First, Holy Scripture has the answer…and it is loud and clear:

Philippians 2:7-9 (English Standard Version)

7but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. 8And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming** obedient** to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name,…"

Romans 8:17 (English Standard Version)

17and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.

b. Second, St. Thomas Aquinas has a key answer (I will have to paraphrase) to why staying in the Church is critical…in other words don’t apostatize and abandon the Faith…by not staying in the Church…by not attending Holy Mass weekly.

St. Thomas Aquinas says…(re: the Three Theological Virtues of Faith, Hope and Charity)…that serious/grave sins against the virtue of Charity…(God’s Love for us)…break the bond of love and grace from God…but they do not destroy or break the virtue of Faith. However, apostasy results from a failing go to Church weekly and failing to attend/participate in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass…weakens and darkens the intellect…and eventually darkens reason and will power…leading to complete loss of faith (this is one of the principle “survival” reasons that the Church makes attendance at Mass on Sundays/Holy Day Obligations a serious offense…it is the lifeline to maintain the Faith…the gift from God…that requires as a first response: Obedience!

Note: the Church’s Precepts require us to receive Holy Communion only once per year during the Easter Season & confess serious sins only once per year…but…a “big but”…to attend Mass every Sunday and all Holy Days of obligation (CCC: para 2042-2043).

​

As Aussie author and speaker Michael Kelly always says:“There is genius in Catholicism”.

Lastly, as my one of my many priest-chaplains in the Marine Corps used to** tell me all the time** when I argued about the Church …is not this or is not that…or that this teaching is not right…he simply listened and then gave me the (old) Catechism and said that it came down to being obedient and faithful to the Our Lord Jesus…and in the end it is not even about obedience…it is really about…Love…of the Savior and of His One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. He always ended with: “…Get with it Son”! No excuses…No wimping out based on pride and feelings or facts that are not in fact facts…or opinions that are just that…opinions. Pick up the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) and read it front to back…go talk with a priest…then come on home! This will be one of the finest moments of your life…Coming Home!

Pax Christi

 

[sphilomena]

Being an ex-Protestant myself, I think I know what the OP means in saying that many Catholics are leading a “protestant lifestyle.” Protestants believe they have the freedom to interpret Christianity however they please, using Sola Scriptura. Very few Protestants believe everything their denomination teaches, and this is perfectly legitimate for them, and even for their denominations. Some Catholics I have encountered in my short (so far) journey seem to also believe they can “pick and choose” what to believe, especially about birth control. This is the essence of the the Protestant lifestyle. Debbie

I agree with you and believe he means “cafeteria Catholics”. They are in abundance and even in public office!

 

[KestrelRose]

You have described lukewarm and dissident Catholics. If these lukewarm and dissident Catholics are leading a ''protestant lifestyle" does that mean that protestants are also lukewarm and dissident?

Faithful Catholics practice the Catholic faith and believe in the teachings of the Church. Faithful Protestants practice their religion and believe in the teachings of their denomination.

A faithful protestant is not a hypocrite. Saying that an unfaithful Catholic is leading a “protestant lifestyle” does not do justice to devout protestants who really practice their faith.

Thank you. I was trying to come up with the right words to express these thoughts.

 

[dnar]

I knew that title would seem nuts, but being born catholic and having a love and respect for the faith, I cannot seem to leave catholicism altogether. So this is really what I am. Besides, most (not all) catholics are living a protestant lifestyle anyway, they just won’t admit it.

I’ve read all the apologetics material one man can stand and have been on both sides of the protestant/catholic debate for years. I’ve left the church and came back and bounced inbetween. The only thing that is very clear to me is that there is very little difference in appearance between novus ordo catholicism and the typical protestant church service.

I have a tremendous amount of respect for traditional catholicism due to the fact that Catholic dogma is often taught during homily at the Traditional Latin Mass. Why did the catholic church back away from it’s traditional look and feel after Vatican II? The only time I have ever heard the phrase “mortal sin” or the word “purgatory” is at the Latin Mass. If this is such an important teaching of catholicism. Why the silence?

Could this abandonment be an effort to retain church members after the highly controversial decision by the Pope on artificial birth control? If not, what in the world has been going on?

I think the idea behind the Novus Ordo was to make it more protestant. I mean, 6 protestant ministers helped write it. Figure that one out.