Pet Peeve -- Re-Writing Hymns

[Joe_Gloor]

I find it annoying as well, but it’s rarely an attack on Doctrine and I don’t see it as ‘dumbing’ anything down - it’s just dumb.
I’m surprised that there aren’t copyright infringements on some of the newer hymns.
In the music ministry we were always instructed to use the words that the congregation had in hand, though, so I wouldn’t put blame on the music ministers.
As far as 'thee’s, 'thou’s and 'thine’s - I have a prayer book that I use regularly which uses the old English and I find that I change it to modern English in my head when I read them with the exception of the Our Father which is so ingrained that I couldn’t do that to it if I wanted to. Can you imagine?
“Our God, Who is in Heaven, Holy is Your name. Your kingdom come, Your will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven…”
The ‘Hail Mary’ can go either way since most of the old English appears at the end of a phrase - “Blessed art thou” “Blessed are you” - it’s about the same.
Of course, now the Pope wants us to memorize them in Latin which will be harder still for an old dog like myself.

The prayer book also uses Holy Ghost exclusively - which I change to Holy Spirit - I think that’s actually a better translation of Spiritus Sanctus, anyway.
As far as the suggestion of writing your own hymns goes - good luck with that! New music isn’t real popular with the crowd in this forum - unless you can write it Latin… as a chant…

I also read somewhere (Mass Confusion) that changing (or omitting) the words of the prayers of the Liturgy was strictly verboten.

 

[James0235]

JKirkLVNV:

I loathe this tendency to muck about with the old hymns. Oregon Catholic Press is the enemy of church music.

Absolutlely!

I remember reading an article once that called OCP the “leading Catholic purveyor of bad liturgical music” or something like that.

It is absolutely true.

James

 

[arieh0310]

“Our God, Who is in Heaven, Holy is Your name. Your kingdom come, Your will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven…”
The ‘Hail Mary’ can go either way since most of the old English appears at the end of a phrase - “Blessed art thou” “Blessed are you” - it’s about the same.
Of course, now the Pope wants us to memorize them in Latin which will be harder still for an old dog like myself.

Our Father:
Pater noster, qui es in coelis. sanctificetur nomen tuum: adveniat regnum tuum: fiat voluntas tua, sicut in coelo, et in terra. Panem nostrum quotibianum da nobis hodie, et dimitte nobis debita nostra, sicut et nos dimittimus debitoribus nostris. Et ne nos inducas in tentationem. Sed libera nos a malo. Amen.

Hail Mary:
Ave Maria, gratia plena, Dominus tecum. Benedicta tu in mulieribus, et benedictus fructus ventris tui, Iesus. Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, ora pro nobis peccatoribus, nunc, et in hora mortis nostrae. Amen.

Roman Missal

I have confidence in you old dog

 

[netmilsmom]

Lux_et_veritas:

I’m all for equal pay, equal access to employment, but totally against dumbing down requirements and standards in order to enable that equal employment (like, I don’t believe weight limits should be dropped so that females can serve a branch of the army or get a fireman’s role).

I see gender-inclusive language as just another way to dumb things down. Not only that, it serves to build pride. I know women, and nuns, who for years spent more time trying to figure out how to make the language of the Mass and hymns more gender inclusive than they did just being nuns (figuratively). It was a joke.

I know Lady! I was just ribbin’ ya! And I agree with you fully.

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

netmil(name removed by moderator):

I know Lady! I was just ribbin’ ya! And I agree with you fully.

I knew that. I had to vent a little more.

 

[baltobetsy]

Hate it. Won’t do it. Singing the right words in my corner. Even when I’m the cantor.

Betsy

 

[seagal]

I was never really bothered one way or the other about gender neutrality, except there are some cases that really mess up the flow of the song. The rewrite that really ticked me off was changing the words in Amazing Grace from “saved a wretch like me” to “saved and strengthened me”. I had an “argument” about that with another person in the choir who said wretch was a terrible word! I responded by saying that the song’s writer was a terrible person and he knew it and that’s what made his saving so amazing. This logic was lost on the other person. But then, this is the same person who, when asked to sing at funerals, usually sings “Here I Am Lord”

 

[m134e5]

David Zampino:

Is it just me, or are others out there annoyed with the re-writing of classic hymns in order to make them “gender neutral”?

Yes.
David Zampino:

I find it especially annoying during the Christmas season, when favorite hymns and carols are “edited” – sometimes to the point of absurdity.

Me too- I find it insulting, both as a musician, and as a man.

 

[arieh0310]

m134e5:

Originally Posted by David Zampino
I find it especially annoying during the Christmas season, when favorite hymns and carols are “edited” – sometimes to the point of absurdity.

Me too- I find it insulting, both as a musician, and as a man.

My wife (obviously a female) feels insulted by the gender neutral language that some people use. She feels that people assume she is too stupid to know that “man” can be gender neutral. She is furious when people remove the gender ascribed to God (or worse by calling God “she”) because HE always revealed Himself as masculine. We shouldn’t second guess the gender He chose to reveal Himself as, He did it for a reason.

 

[David_Zampino]

arieh0310:

My wife (obviously a female) feels insulted by the gender neutral language that some people use. She feels that people assume she is too stupid to know that “man” can be gender neutral. She is furious when people remove the gender ascribed to God (or worse by calling God “she”) because HE always revealed Himself as masculine. We shouldn’t second guess the gender He chose to reveal Himself as, He did it for a reason.

My wife feels the same way.

Haven’t the PC feminists figured out that many women are more offended by THEM than by using “man” in a gender neutral way.

Blessings,

 

[David_Zampino]

By the way, does anyone know why we sing “amen” instead of “awomen” at the end of hymns?

 

[CantorRick]

David Zampino:

By the way, does anyone know why we sing “amen” instead of “awomen” at the end of hymns?

“Amen” is Hebrew for “truly” or “certainly” and indicates agreement or assent.

“Awoman” does not. No, that’s not the way I meant it!!

Amen.

Richard

 

[CantorRick]

baltobetsy:

Hate it. Won’t do it. Singing the right words in my corner. Even when I’m the cantor.

Betsy

Betsy,

Fight the good fight.

As a Cantor you have the ability, and, perhaps the responsibility to adhere to the original texts, especially in Psalms and versus of Canticles and aclaimations which have been altered by those whom consider the words of the original author, usually God, to be somehow inadequate.

I never submit to the pressure of “gender neutral re-write” and, since the original texts are available, insure my fellow musicians and gathered assembly have the “correct” i.e. original, words.

Richard

 

[Jaypeeto3]

Can’t stand the re-writing of hymns myself.
In my parish, which is otherwise a great parish, we use the Oregon Catholic Press hymnals, and they are REALLY going overboard with the gender inclusive rewriting of the hymns.
I find it sacrilegious.
Love,
Jaypeeto3

 

[pnewton]

James0235:

I remember reading an article once that called OCP the “leading Catholic purveyor of bad liturgical music” or something like that.

I’ve always preferred the title “The Great Satan”, but that may be a little too dramatic.

At Christmas time I have a habit of accidently/deliberately (you choose) singing the correct words to the hyms. Wouldn’t be so bad except I lead the singing and have the mike.

 

[David_Zampino]

“Amen” is Hebrew for “truly” or “certainly” and indicates agreement or assent.

“Awoman” does not. No, that’s not the way I meant it!!

Amen.

Richard

We sing “amen” at the end of hymns rather than “awomen” – because we sing “hymns” and not “hyrs”!

Sorry for the groaner . . .

 

[Cathy]

David Zampino:

My wife feels the same way.

Haven’t the PC feminists figured out that many women are more offended by THEM than by using “man” in a gender neutral way.

I guess not, but I wish they would. Also, I don’t call what they do “inclusive language.” English has gender-inclusive words, and they are such words as “man,” “men,” “brothers,” “sons,” etc.
One example of the importance of using these gender-inclusive terms comes in the Nicene Creed, “For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he was born of the Virgin Mary, and became man.”
I’ve heard/seen several preists omitting the word “men” and just saying, “for us.” But this seems almost to cover up the significance of Jesus becoming “man.” What could be more important to assert than the significance for *all * men of Jesus becoming man?

Regarding the changing of words of the hymns, the one that steams me most is “Let there be peace on earth.” I can’t even remember the stupid version of one of my favorite lines, “With God as our Father, brothers all are we.” I refuse to sing the new version, but I feel bad about being rebellious, and I end the song with very little peace in my heart.

Maybe that’s the good part about all this fooling around with language. It sure points up my own weakness.
And no matter what, Jesus is the victorious Lord!

Thanks to all of you who have posted your thoughts here. Now I don’t feel so alone.
God bless you!
Cathy

 

[Anima_Christi]

Brain:

this isnt hymns, but there is a parisioner at the U of Wa newman center that says God instead of He through the entire mass. It really bugs me.

Well at the Newman Center on my campus (which I never attend unless I absolutely have to) not only do they do that, but during the Creed, "He became one of us" instead of “He became man.”
How do you like that?

 

[MarthaMartha]

seagal:

I was never really bothered one way or the other about gender neutrality, except there are some cases that really mess up the flow of the song. The rewrite that really ticked me off was changing the words in Amazing Grace from “saved a wretch like me” to “saved and strengthened me”. I had an “argument” about that with another person in the choir who said wretch was a terrible word! I responded by saying that the song’s writer was a terrible person and he knew it and that’s what made his saving so amazing. This logic was lost on the other person. But then, this is the same person who, when asked to sing at funerals, usually sings “Here I Am Lord”

We recently lost one of our oldest and dearest choir members, who picked his own funeral music before he passed away. Being in his 70s, he favored the nice old classics – but the censors got to them anyway. In “Softly and Tenderly Jesus is Calling,” someone changed “sinner” to “loved one.” But that wasn’t too bad. In the context of a funeral, we didn’t mind singing “Calling, O loved one, come home.” In the context of being saved, I wouldn’t mind being called a (former) wretch.

 

[puzzleannie]

I think it is the height of arrogance to change a writer’s work and that goes double for hymns and especially for the revealed Word of God in scripture. Hymn lyrics are intellectual property, even when in the public domain, and no one has the right to change them.