"Peter denied Jesus six times" and Other Hyper-Literalisms?

[patrick457]

You know how some people believe in the words of Scripture so literally that their solution to seeing discrepancies within the biblical text is not just to harmonize, but to mishmash the differing texts together in an all-too literal way - stretching the text in the process?

How does one reconcile Matthew’s indication that Jesus was denied by Peter three times before the cock crowed but Mark indicates that Peter denied Jesus before the rooster crowed twice? Simple, they answer: Peter actually denied Jesus six times. Three times before the cock crowed, and another three times before it crowed again. (Never mind Jesus only said “three times,” not six!) How does one reconcile Matthew’s and Mark’s statement that the two criminals reviled Jesus while Luke said that one of the two criminals was repentant? They’ll say Jesus was actually crucified with four criminals, three of whom mocked Jesus; they’ll try to get around this by saying that Matthew and Mark only recorded two of these supposed four men while Luke wrote only about the other two. In both cases, their literal attempt to solve ‘contradictions’ in the text, somewhat paradoxically, ends up flat-out contradicting a plain reading of the gospels themselves.

I think the most extreme example I’ve ever encountered though (thank goodness I’ve encountered this only once) is the claim that the ‘Jesuses’ who appear in the four gospels are not exactly the same Jesus. To be honest, I forgot the specifics, but the guy who was claiming it either said they are either four different Jesuses who somehow had a huge number of similarities in their lives, or Jesus somehow was incarnated for four times, apparently getting born and crucified over and over again (!) In other words, each gospel was recording one specific incarnation. Well, something along those lines. You know, they’re all inerrant, so they all gotta be 100% literally accurate, right?

Anyone else encountered this? Or other possible examples?

 

[ericc]

You mean they have resorted to the lowest common denominator in order to gel everything together? They forgot about the verse to take it to the Church when there is a dispute? I guess and they have to invent something to avoid doing that.

 

[Cirdan_XII]

I think the most extreme example I’ve ever encountered though (thank goodness I’ve encountered this only once) is the claim that the ‘Jesuses’ who appear in the four gospels are not exactly the same Jesus. To be honest, I forgot the specifics, but the guy who was claiming it either said they are either four different Jesuses who somehow had a huge number of similarities in their lives, or Jesus somehow was incarnated for four times, apparently getting born and crucified over and over again (!) In other words, each gospel was recording one specific incarnation. Well, something along those lines. You know, they’re all inerrant, so they all gotta be 100% literally accurate, right?

Anyone else encountered this? Or other possible examples?

Not four, but I have heard two Jesuses, I think based on differences in the accounts of the family tree between two of the Gospels (I haven’t myself checked whether the accounts are indeed different). This person said one of the Jesus withdrew from his ministry to let the other one continue. The rest of the explanation and what happened after that was esoteric mumbo jumbo.

I have also heard there were two St John the Baptists, one of whom was the Prophet Elijah returned and the other who wasn’t.

It would be funny if it wasn’t so sad.

 

[Tarpeian_Rock]

This is what seems to happen when people put more emphasis on the printed word instead of the Living Word.

 

[TimothyH]

**And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day, according to the scriptures: ** (1 Corinthians 15:4)

If Jesus rose again, then he must have rose twice!!!

-Tim-

 

[patrick457]

***And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day, according to the scriptures: *** (1 Corinthians 15:4)

If Jesus rose again, then he must have rose twice!!!

-Tim-

Kinda makes you wonder which of the three or four Jesuses should we believe in / which of the four incarnations effected our salvation.

 

[TimothyH]

The rapture is another…

then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord. (1 Thessalonians 4:17)

Rapture theology states that the righteous will literally fly into the air to meet Jesus. Jesus will descend part way, hang a U-turn and take the righteous to heaven with him before he returns for real at the end of time. This means that will be two second comings of Christ, or one half-return and another full return.

A literal interpretation of this passage shows ignorance of the Biblical phrase “go out and meet.”

*When Laban heard the tidings of Jacob his sister’s son, he ran to meet him, and embraced him and kissed him, and brought him to his house. (Genesis 29:13)

Moses went out to meet his father-in-law, and did obeisance and kissed him; and they asked each other of their welfare, and went into the tent. (Exodus 18:7)*

There are dozens of passages about “going out to meet” someone. People would leave the safety of the walled city or town to meet a dignitary who was always escorted back as an honored guest. Paul was an expert in the Hebrew Scriptures and knew this well. “Going out to meet” was common phraseology in Biblical times. When Paul says that we will “Meet the Lord in the air” he does not mean that we will go with Jesus but that Jesus will be escorted back to earth where he will be our honored guest.

The rapture is another example of a literalist interpretation of Scripture which results in teaching exactly the opposite of what the texts actually say.

-Tim-

 

[Xeyed818]

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=908162&highlight=xeyed818

For me, this came up in Sep 2014 and I was surprised to learn from Patrick457 that the idea was not a new one.

About a month ago, I heard the idea spoken of on TV as: Jesus the Rabbi and Jesus the Sage.

Rabbi Jesus frequented the synagogues and ate with the Pharisees. Sage Jesus eats with the tax collectors and poor. Also remember something about there being a difference in where each Jesus went to pray - one to the desert and the other somewhere else.

I’m not sure what they would do with the info if it proved to be true somehow, but (for me) it might explain the curious passage of 1 Cor. 15:17 - “And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins!” (As well as other parts of that verse set.) So, one Jesus died and rose - and one is still ‘buried’ within us and must rise?? Is that what causes some to be like Padre Pio?

Came across another old thread today on CAF where it was explained that there was a difference between Absolution and Forgiveness. That would mean that the ‘spirit’ within Peter (the female shadow, according to Greek pronouns) was a different spirit than the Holy Spirit that came down and filled the Apostles after the crucifixion and the resurrection of (whichever) Jesus?

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=406160 - Forgiveness vs Absolution

I’m still processing this new info - can’t believe I’d never heard it before today. It has a definite wow factor, for me.

Jesus x 4? Baal was running around the NT, too? Not today, thanks.