Peter in Mathew 16

[Pathway2]

Does that mean scripture alone doesn’t work.

 

[joeybaggz]

Does that mean scripture alone doesn’t work.

My response from a RCC perspective. The truths of our faith are derived from three things (the three legged stool example). They are Scripture, Sacred Tradition, and the Magisterium (the teaching authority) of the Church. We see Tradition and the Magisterium as the “lens” thorough which we understand Scripture.

The problem with a Scripture alone model is that what is written can be understood differently in different periods of time. Take slavery for instance. In the times of Christ, slavery was an accepted way of life. I believe even Christ spoke about the responsibility of slaves and of those who held slaves. Fast forward to 2018. Would you use Biblical wording to support the idea of slavery today? Of course not.

Scripture is vital to the RCC. But it is not a “coded book of secrets” from which you can take a single verse (out of context) and apply it to a situation you (or anyone) wishes to support. Scripture is vital to our (Catholic - and other Christian denominations) faith, but it needs to be examined relative to the time it is read and understood. And it needs to be done so uniformly. Otherwise, if everyone interpreted it for themselves, there would chaos.
Shalom

 

[jgaw1234]

Steve Ray can help you out with understanding this. I recommend you visit his website or order some of his cds. Although I must warn you, he’s not always that ecumenical.

 

[Pathway2]

I have seen a video of him talking about faith alone. think he does make some Good biblical points. I think that there lots of things which are Catholic.

 

[pablope]

what does it mean? I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[c] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[d] loosed in heaven.”

to be bind and loosen. what dies it mean?

An example would be in Acts 15…the decision made at the Jerusalem council, to dispense with circumcision, by Peter.
This then became the universal law of the Church.

6 The apostles and the elders were gathered together to consider this matter. 7 And after there had been much debate, Peter rose and said to them, “Brethren, you know that in the early days God made choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 And God who knows the heart bore witness to them, giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us; 9 and he made no distinction between us and them, but cleansed their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore why do you make trial of God by putting a yoke upon the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? 11 But we believe that we shall be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will.”

 

[pablope]

so what the pope declares is what Jesus permits? otherwise there could be a pope who says, “there is no Hell”. (this was an example, not to attack pope Francis).

No…he has to invoke his authority…sitting on the chair of Peter…ex-cathedra…meaning from the chair.

An example would be the declaration of the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption.

 

[pablope]

I have seen a video of him talking about faith alone. think he does make some Good biblical points. I think that there lots of things which are Catholic.

 

[Glark]

Although the Pope considers the opinions of the other bishops on important matters, the final decision comes down to him. In this sense, he holds the keys to the direction and character of the entire Church.

 

[Nita]

I have seen a video of him talking about faith alone. think he does make some Good biblical points. I think that there lots of things which are Catholic.

Steve Ray is a faithful Catholic convert so all his remarks would be Catholic - except, of course, where he is presenting an opposing Protestant view. He was a Baptist before converting.

 

[Pathway2]

does the anti Protestantism happen to all converts?

 

[jcrichton]

Let’s see if we can clarify:

Jesus: ‘whatever you bind on earth is bond by Heaven’ and ‘whatever you loosen on earth is loosen by Heaven,’ is this a declaration that man controls God?

Yes, in as much as Jesus other declaration:

Amen, amen I say to you, he that believeth in me, the works that I do, he also shall do; and greater than these shall he do. (St. John 14:12b)

Do you see it?

Is man greater than God?

Jesus is saying that he/she who abide in Him will do greater things even than those that He did because Jesus Christ Himself and the Holy Spirit will be Guiding him/her to accomplish God’s Will.

When Jesus’ Followers humbly obey God and seek to serve Him in His Church the Church is able to absolve sins; these sins are absolved by God; when the Church Teaches Doctrine, according to Christ’s Gospel, her Teaching, being according to God, is pleasing to God.

Say Pope Francis begins to teach that homosexuality, abortion, contraception, and divorce are sound doctrine he would have purposely contradicted Christ and in his teaching there is no truth–Heaven cannot uphold heresy or immorality as sound!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

I do not follow–unless you are intimating that I was not prompt in replying.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Correct!

Just look around in most US neighborhoods… there are a plethora of “church of Christ/God/Holy Spirit” all within walking distance of each other… all celebrating their own version/s of “church of God.”

When man determines that he can go it alone (sola Scriptura) there’s no limit to what man can conceive from his interpretations of Sacred Scriptures… and as with many secular styles… “Christians” have invented a host of variations to what is “fellowship” with Christ–from mom & pop to the colossal theatrical and arena… all we are missing… oh, wait, there’s an oriental group/movement that has a cornucopia of beliefs incorporated into their faith-base (including all sorts of things borrowed from the various Christian denominations).

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

I don’t understand your question?

I’m not anti-Protestant if defined by actively seeking to demonize non-Catholics; yet, I am anti-protestant by default as Jesus Founded only One Church and I cannot hold various beliefs about that would hinder the One Faith, One Baptism, One Body (Church), One Holy Spirit, One Lord, One God.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Cathoholic]

MATTHEW 16:13-20 13 Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesare′a Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do men say that the Son of man is?”
14 And they said, “Some say John the Baptist, others say Eli′jah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”
16 Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
17 And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.
18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death[ shall not prevail against it.19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” 20 Then he strictly charged the disciples to tell no one that he was the Christ.

 

[Cathoholic]

Pathway2 . . .

how does that work though. how does the pope declaring what will be work for heaven?

The Pope does not declare what will work for Heaven.

There is another way that . . .

. . . . whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

That other way is the charism of infallibility.

When the Pope, under certain circumstances, can teach in a protected manner.

Since God never changes, it can only mean this. It can only mean that Peter will only teach truths in conformity with what Heaven teaches, at least under certain circumstances.

These “certain circumstances” are outlined for us bt the Church itself orally and then in writing at Vatican One.

Hope this is helping.

God bless.

Cathoholic

 

[Nita]

There is so much contained in this passage from Matthew that demonstrates why we have such confidence in the truth of papal decrees.

Cathoholic[/B], post:35, topic:484701, full:true”]

MATTHEW 16:13-20 13 Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesare′a Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do men say that the Son of man is?”
14 And they said, “Some say John the Baptist, others say Eli′jah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”

There is confusion and differing opinions among people on an important spiritual issue.

15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”
16 Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

[/QUOTE]
Jesus/God initiates Peter’s response.
It is God who determines the timing of when a doctrine should be infallibly declared/defined.

17 And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.

The truth Peter proclaims does not arise from his intellect and reasoning, but is a direct result of God’s influence and control in Peter.
Our trust in infallibility is not trust in the human wisdom of a pope, but in the power of God to ensure and control that only His (God’s) truth will be declared when the pope speaks infallibly.

18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death[ shall not prevail against it.

There are only 4 times in the Old Testament where God Himself had a person’s name changed. What is interesting is that in all the cases, He included the connection and/or reason for the new name.
God changed the name of Abram, Israel, Solomon, and Pashur.
Jesus follows this same pattern when He changes Simon’s name.
It’s too bad that when the Scriptures were translated to English, they transliterated the Greek and Latin words that translated the Aramaic “Cephas” - Simon’s new name. Had the English also been translated from the Aramaic, the passage would read “And I tell you, you are Rock, and on this rock I will build my church,”

19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” 20 Then he strictly charged the disciples to tell no one that he was the Christ.

“You” is singular in all 3 cases. Although the other disciples were present, the power of the keys for Jesus’ church was given to Peter alone.