Peter means Rock, so what?

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ok. 1st of all I know that there are lots of links for me to look at to prove that Peter is the 1st Pope. But I would like to be the one starting a tread about it so that i could understand it deeper. I love defending our faith but I encounter a question that I cant handle. Please help.
  1. Peter means Rock. So what if it means Rock? The bible tells us that God laid Jesus as the one and only foundation stone. If we will use Mt.16:18, it will mean that, God laid Jesus and Jesus laid Peter rite? But it is clear that Jesus is the one and ONLY foundation.
  2. If Jesus is the foundation, and Peter is also the foundation, then we have 2 foundation, whether it is heavenly and earthly, we still have 2 foundation.
  3. Is there any other verse in the bible that we could use to prove that Peter is the foundation stone?
  4. If Peter is the foundation stone, why is it that in the bible, Peter explain that Jesus is the foundation? why didn’t he told the people that “I am the foundation”?
  5. What is it in Peter that you cant find on other apostles? whats so special about some one who denied Jesus 3 times?
Thats it for now, I will be waiting for answers, and I will be posting some other questions in the future.

Thank you.
 
ok. 1st of all I know that there are lots of links for me to look at to prove that Peter is the 1st Pope. But I would like to be the one starting a tread about it so that i could understand it deeper. I love defending our faith but I encounter a question that I cant handle. Please help.
  1. Peter means Rock. So what if it means Rock? The bible tells us that God laid Jesus as the one and only foundation stone. If we will use Mt.16:18, it will mean that, God laid Jesus and Jesus laid Peter rite? But it is clear that Jesus is the one and ONLY foundation.
  2. If Jesus is the foundation, and Peter is also the foundation, then we have 2 foundation, whether it is heavenly and earthly, we still have 2 foundation.
  3. Is there any other verse in the bible that we could use to prove that Peter is the foundation stone?
  4. If Peter is the foundation stone, why is it that in the bible, Peter explain that Jesus is the foundation? why didn’t he told the people that “I am the foundation”?
  5. What is it in Peter that you cant find on other apostles? whats so special about some one who denied Jesus 3 times?
Thats it for now, I will be waiting for answers, and I will be posting some other questions in the future.

Thank you.
The incident in Matthew took place at Caesarea Philippi, so named by Herod Philip. However, it was originally Panion, the city of Pan…dedicated to the Greek god Pan. The mountain where Christ was transfigured was above the spot where there remains, to this day, a site honoring Pan, who was, at that time, considered by pagans to be the “great god” who ruled the world. Pan’s essence was sexual and leaned toward depravity, i.e., to Christians, it represents the power of evil. (Remember that with the exchange immediately following Christ’s proclamation!) The altar to Pan was just below the city that represented the evil, and was hidden in the cliffs.

Why this spot? Why, of all the places to which Jesus journeyed, would he choose (and don’t think it wasn’t chosen!) a place so antithetical to the Kingdom of God? Obviously, because Christ, through the Church He was then establishing, is the antithesis to everything which kept men from the Kingdom. And even the gates of hell (a site so named in a niche in the same mountain, which some claim to be the “abyss”) will not prevail over that Kingdom!

But the Kingdom is to be established in the “now” of time, in order for man to live a life of genuine holiness through which he may enter into the eternal Kingdom. Hence, a kingdom needs a King – the King of Kings. However, when the King, established by God through David, is absent from the physical kingdom, it cannot be left unattended. Hence, the keeper of the keys, the “prime minister” or “vicar”, is charged with the full authority of the king over all his lands, peoples, and possessions. He can make law or repeal it. He can make any decisions the King would make. And he is responsible to the King for every action he takes.

The “short” form of my position on Matthew 16:
  1. The “petros/petra” issue would not have occurred, since Jesus was not speaking Greek, but Aramaic, wherein there is ONE word form: Kepha.
  2. A change in name in Scripture ALWAYS came with a significant change in stature and responsibility. It wasn’t a “whim” of Christ’s to change Simon’s name to Peter. And we know that change was real, as it’s referred to throughout the NT. What is the significance of the name change, if not to designate Peter as the primate over all the followers of Christ? Note that whenever a name change was made in the OT, there was an explanation for it – Abram becomes Abraham because God will make of him a great nation. Jacob becomes Israel because he contended and had power with God and with men and prevailed. Likewise, Simon becomes Peter because upon his strength in faith the sacred community of the faithful, the Church, would be founded.
  3. The keeper of the keys is not simply noted in Isaiah. 1Chron 9 details the specifics of the keys. The person who was designated as the keeper of the keys was the “right hand man” of the king. He literally sat at the right hand of the king’s throne.
  4. The throne of David was considered by Jews to be the throne of God. (Ref. 1Chron 29:23 Then Solomon sat on the throne of the Lord as king instead of David his father; and he prospered, and all Israel obeyed him.
  5. The keeper of the keys is, therefore, the Lord’s vicar, who occupies the earthly throne until Christ returns.
 
Peter was chosen by the Father.

Mat 16:16 Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answering said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven.
Mat 16:18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Mat 16:19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.

Luk 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and thou, being once converted, confirm thy brethren.

Joh 21:17 He said to him the third time: Simon, son of John, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he had said to him the third time: Lovest thou me? And he said to him: Lord, thou knowest all things: thou knowest that I love thee. He said to him: Feed my sheep.

Mar 16:7 But go, tell his disciples and Peter that he goeth before you into Galilee. There you shall see him, as he told you.

Luk 24:34 Saying: The Lord is risen indeed and hath appeared to Simon.

Act 1:13 And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room, where abode Peter and John, James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James of Alpheus and Simon Zelotes and Jude the brother of James.
Act 1:14 All these were persevering with one mind in prayer with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.
Act 1:15 In those days Peter rising up in the midst of the brethren, said (now the number of persons together was about an hundred and twenty):
Act 1:16 Men, brethren, the scripture must needs be fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost spoke before by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who was the leader of them that apprehended Jesus:
Act 1:17 Who was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.
Act 1:18 And he indeed hath possessed a field of the reward of iniquity, and being hanged, burst asunder in the midst: and all his bowels gushed out.
Act 1:19 And it became known to all the inhabitants of Jerusalem: so that the same field was called in their tongue, Haceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.
Act 1:20 For it is written in the book of Psalms: Let their habitation become desolate, and let there be none to dwell therein. And his bishopric let another take.
Act 1:21 Wherefore of these men who have companied with us, all the time that the Lord Jesus came in and went out among us,
Act 1:22 Beginning from the baptism of John, until the day wherein he was taken up from us, one of these must be made a witness with us of his resurrection.
Act 1:23 And they appointed two, Joseph, called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.
Act 1:24 And praying, they said: Thou, Lord, who knowest the heart of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
Act 1:25 To take the place of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas hath by transgression fallen, that he might go to his own place.
Act 1:26 And they gave them lot, and the lot fell upon Matthias, and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

Act 2:14 But Peter standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and spoke to them: Ye men of Judea, and all you that dwell in Jerusalem, be this known to you and with your ears receive my words.

Act 2:41 They therefore that received his word were baptized: and there were added in that day about three thousand souls.

Act 3:6 But Peter said: Silver and gold I have none; but what I have, I give thee. In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, arise and walk.
Act 3:7 And taking him by the right hand, he lifted him up: and forthwith his feet and soles received strength.

Act 5:1 But a certain man named Ananias, with Saphira his wife, sold a piece of land,
Act 5:2 And by fraud kept back part of the price of the land, his wife being privy thereunto: and bringing a certain part of it, laid it at the feet of the apostles.
Act 5:3 But Peter said: Ananias, why hath Satan tempted thy heart, that thou shouldst lie to the Holy Ghost and by fraud keep part of the price of the land?
Act 5:4 Whilst it remained, did it not remain to thee? And after it was sold, was it not in thy power? Why hast thou conceived this thing in thy heart? Thou hast not lied to men, but to God.
Act 5:5 And Ananias, hearing these words, fell down and gave up the ghost. And there came great fear upon all that heard it.
Act 5:6 And the young men rising up, removed him, and carrying him out, buried him.
Act 5:7 And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what had happened, came in.
Act 5:8 And Peter said to her: Tell me, woman, whether you sold the land for so much? And she said: Yea, for so much.
Act 5:9 And Peter said unto her: Why have you agreed together to tempt the spirit of the Lord? Behold the feet of them who have buried thy husband are at the door: and they shall carry thee out,
Act 5:10 Immediately, she fell down before his feet and gave up the ghost. And the young men coming in found her dead: and carried her out and buried her by her husband.
Act 5:11 And there came great fear upon the whole church and upon all that heard these things.

Act 8:21 Thou hast no part nor lot in this matter. For thy heart is not right in the sight of God.

Act 10:44 While Peter was yet speaking these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them that heard the word.
Act 10:45 And the faithful of the circumcision, who came with Peter, were astonished for that the grace of the Holy Ghost was poured out upon the Gentiles also.
Act 10:46 For they heard them speaking with tongues and magnifying God.

Act 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter, rising up, said to them: Men, brethren, you know that in former days God made choice among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe.

Act 15:19 For which cause, judge that they who from among the Gentiles are converted to God are not to be disquieted:

Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema.
 
Peter’s name always heads the list of Apostles

Mat 10:1 And having called his twelve disciples together, he gave them power over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of diseases, and all manner of infirmities.
Mat 10:2 And the names of the twelve Apostles are these: The first, Simon who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother,
Mat 10:3 James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother, Philip and Bartholomew, Thomas and Matthew the publican, and James the son of Alpheus, and Thaddeus,
Mat 10:4 Simon the Cananean, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.

Mar 3:16 And to Simon he gave the name Peter:
Mar 3:17 And James the son of Zebedee, and John the brother of James; and he named them Boanerges, which is, The sons of thunder.
Mar 3:18 And Andrew and Philip, and Bartholomew and Matthew, and Thomas and James of Alpheus, and Thaddeus and Simon the Cananean:
Mar 3:19 And Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.

Luk 6:14 Simon, whom he surnamed Peter, and Andrew his brother, James and John, Philip and Bartholomew,
Luk 6:15 Matthew and Thomas, James the son of Alpheus, and Simon who is called Zelotes,
Luk 6:16 And Jude the brother of James, and Judas Iscariot, who was the traitor.

Act 1:13 And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room, where abode Peter and John, James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James of Alpheus and Simon Zelotes and Jude the brother of James.

Peter and his companions

Luk 9:32 But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep. And waking, they saw his glory and the two men that stood with him.

Mar 16:7 But go, tell his disciples and Peter that he goeth before you into Galilee. There you shall see him, as he told you.

Peter spoke for the Apostles

Mat 18:21 Then came Peter unto him and said: Lord, how often shall my brother offend against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?

Mar 8:29 Then he saith to them: But whom do you say that I am? Peter answering said to him: Thou art the Christ.

Luk 8:45 And Jesus said: Who is it that touched me? And all denying, Peter and they that were with him said: Master, the multitudes throng and press thee; and dost thou say, who touched me?

Luk 12:41 And Peter said to him: Lord, dost thou speak this parable to us, or likewise to all?

Joh 6:68 (6:69) And Simon Peter answered him: Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou hast the words of eternal life.

Peter’s name appears 195 times in the New Testament, more than all the other Apostles put together.

Peter was the foundation and Christ was the cornerstone. If you know anything of construction, you cannot build upon a foundation without a corner stone…


Eph 2:20 Built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone:

1Pe 2:7 To you therefore that believe, he is honour: but to them that believe not, the stone which the builders rejected, the same is made the head of the corner:
 
The bible tells us that God laid Jesus as the one and only foundation stone.
Actually, that’s not at all what the Bible teaches. Not even close.

This is what the Bible *actually *says about the foundation of the Church:
… you are fellow citizens with the holy ones and members of the household of God, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. Through him the whole structure is held together and grows into a temple sacred in the Lord; in him you also are being built together into a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.
Eph 2:19-22​
Modern building foundations tend to be monolithic (often poured concrete) but ancient foundations were made of many stones. The cornerstone was laid first, and became the reference point for all other stones.

Paul teaches that the apostles and prophets are those other stones of the foundation of the Church. Chief among all these stones is Jesus, the cornerstone, but chief among the “lesser” stones is the guy whom Jesus named Cephas.

As Paul (and the Church) teaches, we have only one foundation, but it is made of many stones. One of these stones (the most important one) is Jesus, but there are other stones that make up the foundation.
 
The incident in Matthew took place at Caesarea Philippi, so named by Herod Philip. However, it was originally Panion, the city of Pan…dedicated to the Greek god Pan. The mountain where Christ was transfigured was above the spot where there remains, to this day, a site honoring Pan, who was, at that time, considered by pagans to be the “great god” who ruled the world. Pan’s essence was sexual and leaned toward depravity, i.e., to Christians, it represents the power of evil. (Remember that with the exchange immediately following Christ’s proclamation!) The altar to Pan was just below the city that represented the evil, and was hidden in the cliffs.

Why this spot? Why, of all the places to which Jesus journeyed, would he choose (and don’t think it wasn’t chosen!) a place so antithetical to the Kingdom of God? Obviously, because Christ, through the Church He was then establishing, is the antithesis to everything which kept men from the Kingdom. And even the gates of hell (a site so named in a niche in the same mountain, which some claim to be the “abyss”) will not prevail over that Kingdom!

But the Kingdom is to be established in the “now” of time, in order for man to live a life of genuine holiness through which he may enter into the eternal Kingdom. Hence, a kingdom needs a King – the King of Kings. However, when the King, established by God through David, is absent from the physical kingdom, it cannot be left unattended. Hence, the keeper of the keys, the “prime minister” or “vicar”, is charged with the full authority of the king over all his lands, peoples, and possessions. He can make law or repeal it. He can make any decisions the King would make. And he is responsible to the King for every action he takes.

The “short” form of my position on Matthew 16:
  1. The “petros/petra” issue would not have occurred, since Jesus was not speaking Greek, but Aramaic, wherein there is ONE word form: Kepha.
  2. A change in name in Scripture ALWAYS came with a significant change in stature and responsibility. It wasn’t a “whim” of Christ’s to change Simon’s name to Peter. And we know that change was real, as it’s referred to throughout the NT. What is the significance of the name change, if not to designate Peter as the primate over all the followers of Christ? Note that whenever a name change was made in the OT, there was an explanation for it – Abram becomes Abraham because God will make of him a great nation. Jacob becomes Israel because he contended and had power with God and with men and prevailed. Likewise, Simon becomes Peter because upon his strength in faith the sacred community of the faithful, the Church, would be founded.
  3. The keeper of the keys is not simply noted in Isaiah. 1Chron 9 details the specifics of the keys. The person who was designated as the keeper of the keys was the “right hand man” of the king. He literally sat at the right hand of the king’s throne.
  4. The throne of David was considered by Jews to be the throne of God. (Ref. 1Chron 29:23 Then Solomon sat on the throne of the Lord as king instead of David his father; and he prospered, and all Israel obeyed him.
  5. The keeper of the keys is, therefore, the Lord’s vicar, who occupies the earthly throne until Christ returns.
Awesome post 👍
 
Actually, that’s not at all what the Bible teaches. Not even close.

This is what the Bible *actually *says about the foundation of the Church:
Modern building foundations tend to be monolithic (often poured concrete) but ancient foundations were made of many stones. The cornerstone was laid first, and became the reference point for all other stones.

Paul teaches that the apostles and prophets are those other stones of the foundation of the Church. Chief among all these stones is Jesus, the cornerstone, but chief among the “lesser” stones is the guy whom Jesus named Cephas.

As Paul (and the Church) teaches, we have only one foundation, but it is made of many stones. One of these stones (the most important one) is Jesus, but there are other stones that make up the foundation.
To add to this I will note that in the Greek “petra” means a massive rock or bedrock. Bedrock is a necessary part of any foundation.
Mat 7:24 “Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock.
Mat 7:25 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock.
Mat 7:26 And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.
Mat 7:27 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell, and great was the fall of it.”
Here again Jesus speaks of building on a rock. The Greek in V7:25 is again “petra”.

Jesus is our Cornerstone, a stumbling block to those who won’t believe. Peter is the petra, the bedrock portion of the foundation composed of the prophets and apostles. On this is the Church on Earth constructed.
 
Cornerstone and Rock are two completely different things in these texts.

The Rock (Kepha) is the foundation that the church is built on like the house being built on a rock versus sand. I tend to see any protestant church as built on sand while Catholicism is built on the Rock.

The cornerstone is the builder’s signature. So when we speak of Peter as being the sure foundation that Jesus will build the Church on it stands to reason since the Church will have the Cornerstone that is Jesus and thus marking it as His church.

Niw if you bring up other scripture like the OT then we must take that in context as well. But when Peter was named Kepha it was in regards to the building up of Jesus’ church and that God the Father chose Peter to be the bearer of the power that Jesus was to bestow with the Keys. It is so poetic how all the scripture comes together to support Catholic Dogma. To hear prostants twist scripture to meet their own theology it is like taking well known poertry and having a child move the words around and add and remove their own words…
 
ahhh… sorry for the very late reply guys. i didn’t go out because its holy week 🙂 .
i will read all of this posts and comment tomorrow. i hope you will still check out this tread. 🙂
 
ok. 1st of all I know that there are lots of links for me to look at to prove that Peter is the 1st Pope. But I would like to be the one starting a tread about it so that i could understand it deeper. I love defending our faith but I encounter a question that I cant handle. Please help.
  1. Peter means Rock. So what if it means Rock? The bible tells us that God laid Jesus as the one and only foundation stone. If we will use Mt.16:18, it will mean that, God laid Jesus and Jesus laid Peter rite? But it is clear that Jesus is the one and ONLY foundation.
  2. If Jesus is the foundation, and Peter is also the foundation, then we have 2 foundation, whether it is heavenly and earthly, we still have 2 foundation.
  3. Is there any other verse in the bible that we could use to prove that Peter is the foundation stone?
  4. If Peter is the foundation stone, why is it that in the bible, Peter explain that Jesus is the foundation? why didn’t he told the people that “I am the foundation”?
  5. What is it in Peter that you cant find on other apostles? whats so special about some one who denied Jesus 3 times?
Thats it for now, I will be waiting for answers, and I will be posting some other questions in the future.

Thank you.
Scripture has more to say on this that non-Catholics sometimes overlook. There are many examples where Jesus is shown to be the principle focus, but that secondary roles also exist. I will give examples of the former first followed by a complimentary list of the latter:

Matt 23:9 Call no man father
" ":10 …nor are you to be called teachers.

Heb 10:30 …and the Lord will judge his people.
Acts 10:42 …he is the one ordained by God to judge the living and the dead.
Jam 4:12 There is one lawgiver and judge

1Cor 3:11 one foundation Christ

Acts 7:2 And Stephen replied: "Brothers and fathers, listen to me.

Rom 4:16 Abraham is the father of us all
1Cor 4:15 I [Paul] became your** father** through the Gospel.
Phm 1:10 Paul refers to himself as spiritual father to Onesimus.
Rom 12:6-7 teachers 1Tim 2:7 Paul calls himself a teacher.
Eph 2:19-20 household of God built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets with Jesus as the cornerstone.
Rev 21:14 twelve foundations, the apostles

I hope these examples are helpful.
 
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