Peter & Paul Established Latin as the Ligurgical Language in Rome

[JKirkLVNV]

Hi jkirklvnv

Perhaps you could tell me why exorcists use latin? I have read that it is more effective than english for expelling demons.

They don’t all use Latin. Fr. Amforth claims that Satan hates Latin. I rather imagine that Satan hates any language used to drive him out and can’t stand God being praised in any language. And Fr. Amforth’s evidence is anecdotal. Latin is not a part of the deposit of faith (that which we MUST believe and cling to) and it is not essential to salvation.

“In the Exorcism of Emily Rose,” based on an actual historical incident, one of the languages the demons spoke was Latin. Doesn that damn Latin because a demon used it? Latin was one of three languages used on the sign board above Our Blessed Lord’s Head on the Cross. Does that render Latin, Greek, or Hebrew sacred? That’s an opinion already condemned by a council of the Church centuries ago.

No earthly language is inherently or ontologically sacred.

 

[I_Believe]

Ecclesiastical Latin is the Angelic Language. It is the language of Holy Mother Church. It’s the language of The Mass of the Ages. It’s the language that spread the Faith to every corner of the Western World.

 

[jmcrae]

Hijmcrae
I don’t understand the above statement.

I simply meant that, since there was no standardized Missal from which to work, priests were using as many or as few readings in the Liturgy of the Word as they pleased, using or not using whatever gestures were suited for communicating the Mysteries to that particular congregation, and using their own words in the Eucharistic prayers - as (or at least we are told) is often done in churches in California.

That is to say, there is a general outline of the Mass that is followed, but it doesn’t conform necessarily to every detail of the Missal - and since there was no standardized Bible until 405 AD, and no standardized Missal until after 800 AD, that’s what the Masses of 250 AD would have looked like.

 

[Joannm]

Ecclesiastical Latin is the Angelic Language. It is the language of Holy Mother Church. It’s the language of The Mass of the Ages. It’s the language that spread the Faith to every corner of the Western World.

Considering no one outside of the European continent and North Africa spoke Latin, I wonder how using Latin spread the faith? Once Latin was lost as a venacular language no one spoke it except the Church, so agian, how would using a dead language spread the faith if no one could understand it except the clergy and some well educated people?

 

[jmcrae]

Considering no one outside of the European continent and North Africa spoke Latin, I wonder how using Latin spread the faith? Once Latin was lost as a venacular language no one spoke it except the Church, so agian, how would using a dead language spread the faith if no one could understand it except the clergy and some well educated people?

That’s a good point. What actually happened, at least in North America, was that the missionaries learned the local language, started Catechism classes in the local language, and taught the people to understand Latin so that they could go to Mass and understand the Mass.

 

[jorgeraul3]

IMHO the use of Latin might defeat the church’s message of evangelization. I mean who are you gonna evangelize with a dead language.

I still think there is a place for Latin Mass, but not in making it the standard though.

Besides if God wanted the mass in Latin he would have had the apostles speak Latin on the day of Pentecost.

That’s just my opinion. A mass accessible to everybody, we are the ‘universal’ church after all

 

[RobbyS]

At the time the early Church was using vernacular languages, not liturgical languages. Latin and Greek were the vernacular languages of the time. Had Christ appeared in Palestine in the 19th century, and Peter and Paul of the time moved to London, they’d have probably celebrated the liturgy in English.

There’s nothing sacred about either Latin or Greek. They’re merely traditional. I sometimes wonder what all the fuss is about.

Who cares what language the liturgy is celebrated in? They’re merely words.

Rome was like New York in that people came from all over the world to live there. Like Marcion, one of the most famous early heretic came from the Black Sea area. Greek was a kind of lingua franca, since the Greeks had established colonies all around the Med including places to the south of Rome. When Constantine freed the Christian churches, the bulk of Christians were in the east. Greek was the language used at the first Council of Nicaea in 325 because almost all the bishops were Greek-speakers. Greek was spoken by most of the popes down tothe time of Gregory the Great. Latin became the language of the mass after the number of latin Christians exceeded the number of Greek-speakers. I have heard that it was used in North Africa, a Latin colony, before it was used in Rome. One of the first Latin Fathers was Tertullian, a North African.

 

[Lisa44]

…A mass accessible to everybody, we are the ‘universal’ church after all

Hi jorgeraul
When I think “universal church” I think “universal” language. If every Mass was in Latin, I could go anywhere in the world and pray with Catholics.

 

[I_Believe]

Considering no one outside of the European continent and North Africa spoke Latin, I wonder how using Latin spread the faith? Once Latin was lost as a venacular language no one spoke it except the Church, so agian, how would using a dead language spread the faith if no one could understand it except the clergy and some well educated people?

Ecclesiastical Latin is not a dead language. The Mass spread the faith. The Mass was in Latin. It united all in His Name.

Consider this

“In recent times, even in materialist North America, the growth of the Church was magnificent with the liturgy being kept in Latin. The attempts of the Protestants have failed, and Protestantism uses the vernacular. We ask again: Why the change, especially since changes in this matter involve many difficulties and great dangers? All of us here at the Council can recall the fundamental changes in the meaning of words in common use. Thus it follows that if the Sacred Liturgy were in the vernacular, the immutability of doctrine would be endangered.
The introduction of the vernacular should be separated from the action of the Mass. The Mass must remain as it is. Grave changes in the liturgy introduce grave changes in dogmata.”
-James Cardinal McIntyre addressing the Second Vatican Council.

Now, has the immutability of Doctrine been endangered ? I’d have to say yes. Pro multis translates to “for many”. How many years have clergy said the opposite , "For all " ?
The problem has been identified, and yet they continue. And by the way, my name is not agian

The Gregorian Mass, prayed in Latin, and the return to traditional Catholic schooling is the only way out of this mess. And they better do it quick, because we are running out of priests.

 

[jmcrae]

Now, has the immutability of Doctrine been endangered ? I’d have to say yes. Pro multis translates to “for many”. How many years have clergy said the opposite , "For all " ?

Actually, the opposite of the meaning of “pro multis” (for the many) would be “for the few” - the sense of “pro multis” is “all, as opposed to not all.”

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Ecclesiastical Latin is the Angelic Language. It is the language of Holy Mother Church. It’s the language of The Mass of the Ages. It’s the language that spread the Faith to every corner of the Western World.

There is no reliable documentation of any angel speaking Latin. It is the language of Holy Mother Church, but She has permitted other languages to be used as well. It is the language of the Extraordinary Form and it is also the language of the Ordinary Form (which was promulgated in Latin), but again, the Church has permitted other languages to be used as well (and not merely in the post-Vatican II Church, she permitted it centuries ago in Slavonic and in Chinese). It was the liturgical language used WHEN the Faith was spread to every corner of the Western world.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Hi jorgeraul
When I think “universal church” I think “universal” language. If every Mass was in Latin, I could go anywhere in the world and pray with Catholics.

You still can, you know. I’ve prayed the Mass when it was offered in Spanish.

 

[adowcday]

St. peter established Latin as the language of the church in 50 AD. Even then the Mass was said in Latin and has continued to this very day, despite what the Newchurchers are doing. Things may have been written in Greek, but that does not mean the official language of the church was greek.

There were several liturgical languages in use for a very long time. Basically, the mass was said in the vernacular (local language) for centuries. There was no official – i.e., worldwide – language for quite some time.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Now, has the immutability of Doctrine been endangered ? I’d have to say yes. Pro multis translates to “for many”. How many years have clergy said the opposite , "For all " ?
The problem has been identified, and yet they continue. And by the way, my name is not agian

And yet, the Holy See, which holds Christ’s authority, differed with you in that opinion. Even when they permitted “for all,” they clearly stated that it would not adversely affect the confection of the Holy Sacrifice. When they decided that a closer translation was, after all more desireable, they again reassured the faithful that “for all” had not rendered the Holy Sacrifice invalid (the Popes themselves used “for all” when offering the Mass in English speaking countries).

 

[Aramis]

All languages now considered sacred (e.g, Hebrew by Jews, Sanskrit by Hindus, Arabic by Muslims) were once vernaculars. The same is true for Catholic liturgical languages (e.g., Latin, Greek, Old Church Slavonic).

Wrong. Old Church Slavonic was a constructed language hybridizing several local slavic tongues.

 

[Cat]

Ecclesiastical Latin is the Angelic Language. It is the language of Holy Mother Church. It’s the language of The Mass of the Ages. It’s the language that spread the Faith to every corner of the Western World.

No, no! From the time I was a tiny child, I was taught that Swedish is the language of heaven and the angels. Uff da! :snowing::christmastree1:

(I actually suspect that Math is the language of heaven, but don’t tell Miss Larsen or Pastor Chris.)

 

[pnewton]

Since the Holy Spirit apparently directed the Church to make Latin her language, it becomes sacred, in a sense, doesn’t it?

I agree with this whole-heartedly. However, I will also go the next step and say that the Holy Spirit has now led the Church to make the Mass available in many languages. What I do not find consistent is acknowleding the Holy Spirit at one time and not all time. Then the involvement of the Holy Spirit becomes nothing more than begging the quesiton, i.e., when we agree, it is the Holy Spirit; when we disagree, it is human nature opposing the Holy Spirit.

 

[I_Believe]

There is no reliable documentation of any angel speaking Latin. It is the language of Holy Mother Church, but She has permitted other languages to be used as well. It is the language of the Extraordinary Form and it is also the language of the Ordinary Form (which was promulgated in Latin), but again, the Church has permitted other languages to be used as well (and not merely in the post-Vatican II Church, she permitted it centuries ago in Slavonic and in Chinese). It was the liturgical language used WHEN the Faith was spread to every corner of the Western world.

lol,
I just knew I’d get a rise out of a few here with that post. Thus the …

 

[I_Believe]

There is no reliable documentation of any angel speaking Latin.

I know, I just saw you on the thread and wanted to bug you.

 

[I_Believe]

No, no! From the time I was a tiny child, I was taught that Swedish is the language of heaven and the angels. Uff da! :snowing::christmastree1:

(I actually suspect that Math is the language of heaven, but don’t tell Miss Larsen or Pastor Chris.)

Glad someone saw the humor .