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praestat_fides
Guest
At the Jerusalem Council, it was James not Peter who made the final decision in regards to the issues at hand with the Gentiles. How can this be if Peter was the first Pope as the RCC teaches?
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z_0101
Guest
The article found here in Catholic Answers Magazine: Was James the Real Leader of the Early Church? covers this in much better context than I can do here; however, let me take a stab at it too…
There is no contradiction.
James is only expressing his position in a council meeting that supports the position already proposed by Peter.
Anyway to the point:
First, it was a council; each of the Apostles would have had their voice herd, and the council was meeting to consider the information brought before them by Paul and Barnabas.
Second Acts 15:7-11, Peter makes the first move to release the Gentiles of the circumcision and other requirements that we read about in the earlier text and subsequently in Acts15:22 and beyond.
Third, in Acts15:13, when James speaks up,
James answered, saying: Men, brethren, hear me. [14] Simon hath related how God first visited to take of the Gentiles a people to his name…
Remember here, “Simon” who is “Peter”… thus, James is talking in support of Peter’s position, and then supports that position with the words of the prophets…
James, then says… in “his judgment”
For which cause I judge that they, who from among the Gentiles are converted to God, are not to be disquieted
which could have been written… “it is my opinion” that they (the council) make their recommendations to the Church in Antioch. Many people have never heard the phrase “I judge” or “I reckon” used in common speech; however, I’ve heard it used by many older people to mean that in their “learned” opinion that something is “this” or “that”
There is no contradiction.
James is only expressing his position in a council meeting that supports the position already proposed by Peter.
Anyway to the point:
First, it was a council; each of the Apostles would have had their voice herd, and the council was meeting to consider the information brought before them by Paul and Barnabas.
Second Acts 15:7-11, Peter makes the first move to release the Gentiles of the circumcision and other requirements that we read about in the earlier text and subsequently in Acts15:22 and beyond.
Third, in Acts15:13, when James speaks up,
James answered, saying: Men, brethren, hear me. [14] Simon hath related how God first visited to take of the Gentiles a people to his name…
Remember here, “Simon” who is “Peter”… thus, James is talking in support of Peter’s position, and then supports that position with the words of the prophets…
James, then says… in “his judgment”
For which cause I judge that they, who from among the Gentiles are converted to God, are not to be disquieted
which could have been written… “it is my opinion” that they (the council) make their recommendations to the Church in Antioch. Many people have never heard the phrase “I judge” or “I reckon” used in common speech; however, I’ve heard it used by many older people to mean that in their “learned” opinion that something is “this” or “that”
- Keep in mind, the Apostles, as do our Bishops now, did things as a committee, Peter was the head of that committee and as such, would have listened to the other members of that committee and their “judgments.” Such an act would not have weakened his position as first amongst the Apostles.
- There is a book entitled *Pilgrim Church: A Popular History of Catholic Christianity * by William J. Bausch, Carol Ann Cannon, Robert E. Obach that I would recommend you looking for at your local library or even the retail or online book stores. It will open your eyes to the events of the early Church. It’s a book that an older Deacon recommend as I discern if I should go in to the Deaconate program.
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ChurchSoldier
Guest
Yes, James made the declaration about what the church would do.
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Billy_Buescher
Guest
Does anyone know if Linus, the 2nd Pope, replaced Jame when he was killed, or did Linus replace Peter at his death?
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BartholomewB
Guest
In the sixties Peter and Linus were both living in Rome. When Peter was martyred, most probably in 64, Linus was chosen as his replacement. According to Irinaeus, he was the same Linus mentioned by Paul in 2 Tim 4:21.
James the Just,“the brother of the Lord,” was the head of the church in Jerusalem. After Peter’s arrest and escape at Passover 43, the leadership of the earliest Jerusalem community passed to James and his body of elders, which is mentioned for the first time in Acts 11:30. When James, too, was executed, his successor was Simeon, the son of Cleopas, a cousin of the Lord.
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Cavaradossi
Guest
The Greek verb κρίνω means specifically to distinguish, to approve, to condemn, to decide on a disputed matter, and hence to judge. If the writer of Acts had intended to depict St. James as merely giving an opinion he would have used some expression like “δοκει εμοι”The article found here in Catholic Answers Magazine: Was James the Real Leader of the Early Church? covers this in much better context than I can do here; however, let me take a stab at it too…
There is no contradiction.
James is only expressing his position in a council meeting that supports the position already proposed by Peter.
Anyway to the point:
First, it was a council; each of the Apostles would have had their voice herd, and the council was meeting to consider the information brought before them by Paul and Barnabas.
Second Acts 15:7-11, Peter makes the first move to release the Gentiles of the circumcision and other requirements that we read about in the earlier text and subsequently in Acts15:22 and beyond.
Third, in Acts15:13, when James speaks up,
James answered, saying: Men, brethren, hear me. [14] Simon hath related how God first visited to take of the Gentiles a people to his name…
Remember here, “Simon” who is “Peter”… thus, James is talking in support of Peter’s position, and then supports that position with the words of the prophets…
James, then says… in “his judgment”
For which cause I judge that they, who from among the Gentiles are converted to God, are not to be disquieted
which could have been written… “it is my opinion” that they (the council) make their recommendations to the Church in Antioch. Many people have never heard the phrase “I judge” or “I reckon” used in common speech; however, I’ve heard it used by many older people to mean that in their “learned” opinion that something is “this” or “that”
- Keep in mind, the Apostles, as do our Bishops now, did things as a committee, Peter was the head of that committee and as such, would have listened to the other members of that committee and their “judgments.” Such an act would not have weakened his position as first amongst the Apostles.
- There is a book entitled *Pilgrim Church: A Popular History of Catholic Christianity * by William J. Bausch, Carol Ann Cannon, Robert E. Obach that I would recommend you looking for at your local library or even the retail or online book stores. It will open your eyes to the events of the early Church. It’s a book that an older Deacon recommend as I discern if I should go in to the Deaconate program.
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Genesis315
Guest
The final decree of the Council went out in the name of all the Apostles and other clergy–that was the final say (Acts 15:22-29). Various subsequent Church councils have acted the same. For example, see the Council of Chalcedon, where St. Leo delivered his Tome, and then the Council received it as coming from the mouth of Peter and made its decrees according to the truth contained in it.
The Council in Acts took place in Jerusalem, where James was bishop and where there were a great many Jewish Christians who might be scandalized by the decision, but who also respected him greatly. For this reason St. John Chrysostom saw it as appropriate for James to make an authoritative statement after Peter, due to his special authority there. Like all bishops in their sees, he was the ordinary teacher of the flock there. Of course, in other writings, St. John Chrysostom is quite clear that St. Peter is “the chosen one of the Apostles, the mouth of the disciples, the leader of the band”, “the leader of the apostolic choir”, and “as having been put in trust by Christ with the flock, and as having precedence in honor.”
In fact, in response to this very objection, he says:
“And if any should say, How then did James receive the chair at Jerusalem? I would make this reply, that He appointed Peter teacher, not of the chair, but of the world.”
The Council of Jerusalem would be a valid objection to the primacy of Peter if James’ decision opposed Peters and the Council sided with him over Peter. However, this was not the case as everyone was in accord with Peter.
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TimothyH
Guest
Peter was a guest. James was the Bishop of Jerusalem. James was the host. It is considered extremely impolite for a guest to undermine the authority of his host by making a statement of policy. The host gets to do that.
Remember the Mexican president lecturing Barak Obama on US Policy while on US soil and what an uproar that caused? Same thing.
-Tim-
Remember the Mexican president lecturing Barak Obama on US Policy while on US soil and what an uproar that caused? Same thing.
-Tim-
This is no surprise at all, since the Church still works the same way today.
Peter issued the doctrinal definition. That’s what Popes do. In today’s terms, he issued what would be a primitive Apostolic Constitution or Bull.
James issued the disciplinary decree. That’s what Congregations do. In other words, he issued an Instruction.
No problems whatsoever.
Peter issued the doctrinal definition. That’s what Popes do. In today’s terms, he issued what would be a primitive Apostolic Constitution or Bull.
James issued the disciplinary decree. That’s what Congregations do. In other words, he issued an Instruction.
No problems whatsoever.
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z_0101
Guest
Barnes’ Notes on the Whole Bible
My sentence - Greek: I judge κρίνω krinōthat is, I give my opinion. It is the usual language in which a judge delivers his opinion; but it does not imply here that James assumed authority to settle the case, but merely that he gave his opinion, or counsel.
As I can not read nor write ancient Greek, I’ll concede the point about the verb usage. What I do know, from reading “Coffman’s Commentaries on the Bible” is that, James only pronounces his own judgment. He refrains from issuing a command. Coffman points out that F.J.A. Hort’s analysis of the passage, expressly states, that in the Greek language there are several “verbs of commanding” and that none of those words are used in this passage. If we read further down in to Acts15:28 we find that the “judgment” of James is inspired by the Holy spirit (according to Coffman). So while James may have expressed his own judgment - inspired as it may be and in support of Peter’s earlier position, he did not command that act nor did he have the authority to impose such an act. One must keep in mind here, the Church of Antioch was independent and that independence had to be respected and yet, that respect had to be such as to not to encourage her disregard the Apostles or the Church proper in order to maintain the unity of the Christian body.
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z_0101
Guest
short and to the point.
But let’s not forget, Genesis315 rightly points out , the final course of action was issued by the council, not by James.
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z_0101
Guest
that was funny
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praestat_fides
Guest
Genesis 3:15?short and to the point.
But let’s not forget, Genesis315 rightly points out , the final course of action was issued by the council, not by James.
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z_0101
Guest
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exnihilo
Guest
Others have given good answers. I’d only add that I’d stress that one should consider this against all of Holy Scripture. It is quite clear that the Apostles had a hierarchy. Peter, James, and John were a subgroup with Peter as the leader of all of the Apostles. He spoke for them and was given a special charge. When you look at this particular event you need to keep in mind all of the evidence. Can you reconcile what is written with the other evidence that Peter has an authority over all the Apostles? Yes you can as others have pointed out.
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TimothyH
Guest
James was Bishop of Jerusalem. Peter was in Jerusalem.
Peter would never make a policy statement while in another bishop’s jurisdiction.
This is basic political protocol and has been observed throughout history. We see Pilate and Herod doing the same thing.
And when he learned that he belonged to Herod’s jurisdiction, he sent him over to Herod, who was himself in Jerusalem at that time. (Luke 23:7)
-Tim-
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pablope
Guest
But Peter did…even prior to the Council…beginning in Acts 10 and concluding in Acts 11:
15 “As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning. 16 Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized with[a] water, but you will be baptized with** the Holy Spirit.’ 17 So if God gave them the same gift he gave us who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could stand in God’s way?”
18 When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, “So then, even to Gentiles God has granted repentance that leads to life.”
And this is the same decision Peter would reiterate in Acts 15:
10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”
James’ words where how to implement the decision in his diocese.**
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pablope
Guest
Peter had made the decision in Acts 10 and 11 prior to the Council.
So what exactly did James decide in Acts 15 council that Peter had already made the determination in Acts 10 and 11?
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pablope
Guest
Peter’w words in Acts 11 and 15:
Acts 11:
15 “As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning. 16 Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized with[a] water, but you will be baptized with** the Holy Spirit.’ 17 So if God gave them the same gift he gave us who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could stand in God’s way?”
18 When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, “So then, even to Gentiles God has granted repentance that leads to life.”
And this is the same decision Peter would reiterate in Acts 15:
10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”
James:
Acts 15:19 “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”
So question…which decision is still the law of the Church to this day and which one is not followed anymore today?**
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TimothyH
Guest
Peter’s discource in Acts 11 was not part of a council. He was not talking to the elders or Apostles but hostile “judaizers.” He was simply recounting what God had done, that God had poured out the Holy Spirit on the Gentiles.
While Peter was still saying this, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word. And the believers from among the circumcised who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. (Acts 10:44-45)
Peter has witnesses with him - believers from among the circumcised who were with him at the home of Cornelius. The judaizers have to believe Peter’s story because under Jewish Law everything is confirmed when there are two or three witnesses. The text says that the judaizers are silenced.
Acts 15 however is a council, an official meeting of the elders and Apostles. Peter lets James make the policy statement in an official setting. This is basic political protocol all over the world to this day.
-Tim-
While Peter was still saying this, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word. And the believers from among the circumcised who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. (Acts 10:44-45)
Peter has witnesses with him - believers from among the circumcised who were with him at the home of Cornelius. The judaizers have to believe Peter’s story because under Jewish Law everything is confirmed when there are two or three witnesses. The text says that the judaizers are silenced.
Acts 15 however is a council, an official meeting of the elders and Apostles. Peter lets James make the policy statement in an official setting. This is basic political protocol all over the world to this day.
-Tim-
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