Peter was never a bishop of Rome or at Rome, CC does not teach it anymore

[agnes_therese]

Are you suggesting highrigger1 has been banned from this forum? For repeating the views of historians? Have I got this wrong? I hope so.

First of all, it’s not a “suggestion” that highrigger1 has been banned – just look up any of his posts, and you’ll see it’s true.
Second, Gary said absolutely nothing about a possible reason.

Methinks I smell an agenda here.

 

[perro_sarnoso]

Blah blah blah blah …highrigger…blah blah blah blah this and that…

The Catholic church is the original church that Christ intended to exist after His ascension into heaven and of which He left Peter as it’s first Pope…264 popes later to Pope Benedict the XVI…and the gates of hell have not and will not prevail against her.

You people get so wrapped around the axle at the faintest shot in the woods…

We have the greatest armament…how are we to fear anything in this valley of death.

In hoc signo vinces

 

[CopticChristian]

Are you suggesting highrigger1 has been banned from this forum? For repeating the views of historians? Have I got this wrong? I hope so.

Pick,

Do you believe in being banned?

Do you believe in shunning?

Do you believe in repitition?

Do you believe in history?

Do you believe in being wrong?

Do you accept hope?

Do you believe in Miracles?

Do you believe in magic, in a young girls heart, how the music can free her whenever it starts?

 

[PeterJohn]

Apostle John is. Blessed Peter is only an Apostle, while St.John is Apostle, Evangelist and Prophet.

Plus, John was the Beloved Apostle

I love the Gospel of John!! But Peter was held in a higher regard then any apostle, in the bible.

 

[CopticChristian]

Apostle John is. Blessed Peter is only an Apostle, while St.John is Apostle, Evangelist and Prophet.

Plus, John was the Beloved Apostle

Wise,

So when Paul says that he speaks in tongue and rather that the congregation prophesize…is it not inferred that he too propehsied, others prophesied and that would include Peter. Peter certainly evanglized as did Mark, who founded the Coptic Church. Paul states that he is the least of the Apostles…do you believe that when Jesus was asked who was the greatest he said John…???

 

[Wisely]

Wise,

So when Paul says that he speaks in tongue and rather that the congregation prophesize…is it not inferred that he too propehsied, others prophesied and that would include Peter. Peter certainly evanglized as did Mark, who founded the Coptic Church. Paul states that he is the least of the Apostles…do you believe that when Jesus was asked who was the greatest he said John…???

No, but I guess I can say he is the one that has more “merits.”

 

[CopticChristian]

No, but I guess I can say he is the one that has more “merits.”

Wise,

Define merits, how one gets them, what is less and what is more.

 

[The_GreyPilgrim]

I respectfully disagree. No authority was given to Peter that was not given to the other apostles.
I do take all scripture into account. And I do not take it literally meaning I don’t take one verse and run with it.

Matt 16:15-19

John 21:15-17

Acts 15:7

Every time the apostles were listed Peter is ALWAYS listed first-that in itself is significant. Peter always spoke for the twelve when they wanted to ask Jesus something. Peter was the first to preach in Jerusalem(Acts 2) and to the Gentiles(Acts 10). And when those in Samaria had converted it was Peter with John who went to confirm them by laying hands on them(Acts 8).

You are ignoring these verses for the sake of your tradition.

No other Apostle was given the Keys to Jesus’ kingdom. They were given to Peter.

Or how do you expalin these scriptures?

 

[The_GreyPilgrim]

Apostle John is. Blessed Peter is only an Apostle, while St.John is Apostle, Evangelist and Prophet.

Plus, John was the Beloved Apostle

John submitted to Peter when he waited for Peter after beating him to Jesus’ tomb.

If your corollary is that John loved Jesus and Peter didn’t you have aerious problem.

That and remember that Mark’s gospel IS Peter’s gospel because Mark was Peter’s secretary. And by all accounts Mark’s was the first to be written.

Peter WAS an Apsotle AND an evangelist AND also a prophet.

So aren’t you being just a bit disengenuous?

 

[Isaiah45_9]

Thou shall not discuss merits with a Roman Catholic

Sorry, I couldn’t help it.

 

[Wisely]

Wise,

Define merits, how one gets them, what is less and what is more.

Something like “bonus points”

John: Peter:
Beloved Apostle. Leader of the Apostles
One of the 12. One of the 12
One of the 4 Evangelists. Didn’t bother to write his own Gospel
Wrote 3 Epistles. Wrote 2 Epistles
Saw the end of the world and wrote Revelations. -
Was the guardian of the Virgin after Jesus’ death. -
Didn’t chicken out at the Crucifixion. Chickened out at the Crucifixion
Got resurrected like the Virgin. Died as a martyr but no resurrection
Is known as the Theologian. -

•                                                                  Evagelized a lot more than John

John: 9
Peter: 5

 

[Wisely]

John submitted to Peter when he waited for Peter after beating him to Jesus’ tomb.

If your corollary is that John loved Jesus and Peter didn’t you have aerious problem.

That and remember that Mark’s gospel IS Peter’s gospel because Mark was Peter’s secretary. And by all accounts Mark’s was the first to be written.

Peter WAS an Apsotle AND an evangelist AND also a prophet.

So aren’t you being just a bit disengenuous?

1. John submitted to Peter? Nope, Equals don’t submit to equals.
2. Peter got first to the tomb so what? It wasn’t a race.
3. If Mark’s gospel is Peter’s it would be called Peter’s Gospel and not Mark’s. I know Mark wrote it using the info Peter told him. Still, Peter didn’t bothered to wrote it.
4. Sure, Peter was an Apostle but Evangelist? Nope. And prophet? Maybe, but definitely not on John’s level.

 

[Wisely]

Thou shall not discuss merits with a Roman Catholic

Sorry, I couldn’t help it.

Lol

 

[CopticChristian]

Something like “bonus points”

John: Peter:
Beloved Apostle. Leader of the Apostles
One of the 12. One of the 12
One of the 4 Evangelists. Didn’t bother to write his own Gospel
Wrote 3 Epistles. Wrote 2 Epistles
Saw the end of the world and wrote Revelations. -
Was the guardian of the Virgin after Jesus’ death. -
Didn’t chicken out at the Crucifixion. Chickened out at the Crucifixion
Got resurrected like the Virgin. Died as a martyr but no resurrection
Is known as the Theologian. -

•                                                                  Evagelized a lot more than John

John: 9
Peter: 5

So, these are your merits. This reminds me of the Protestant paradigm whereby Paul is designated as superior to Peter because he wrote more. Jesus wrote nothing except in the sand.

Paul wrote no Gospel. The John that wrote Revalation is not necessarily the same John you speak of. That is in question. Jesus told Peter he would deny him…so…

So these are your merits…so you would say contrary to Paul

1And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. 2I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. 3For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? 4For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
5Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man? 6I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. 7So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. 8Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour. 9For we are labourers together with God: ye are God’s husbandry, ye are God’s building.

Interesting twist…

 

[George_Stegmeir]

1. John submitted to Peter? Nope, Equals don’t submit to equals.
2. Peter got first to the tomb so what? It wasn’t a race.
3. If Mark’s gospel is Peter’s it would be called Peter’s Gospel and not Mark’s. I know Mark wrote it using the info Peter told him. Still, Peter didn’t bothered to wrote it.
4. Sure, Peter was an Apostle but Evangelist? Nope. And prophet? Maybe, but definitely not on John’s level.

Despite being one of the Evangelists, John is not the equal of Peter.
Christ did not give John the Keys to the Kingdom; He did to Peter.
In addition, no where is it written that John raised someone from the dead. It is so written about Peter.

 

[CopticChristian]

Despite being one of the Evangelists, John is not the equal of Peter.
Christ did not give John the Keys to the Kingdom; He did to Peter.
In addition, no where is it written that John raised someone from the dead. It is so written about Peter.

George,

This causes me to pause…if we are to consider that the Bishops are in essence successors to the Apostles…and then we look at our understanding of how the Orthodox and Catholics speak…and Rome or the Chair of Rome is the first among equals…then for you to conclude that John is not the equal of Peter…you may consider that Peter is the first among equals to include John…as equal…would you not?

 

[Wisely]

So, these are your merits. This reminds me of the Protestant paradigm whereby Paul is designated as superior to Peter because he wrote more. Jesus wrote nothing except in the sand.

Paul wrote no Gospel. The John that wrote Revalation is not necessarily the same John you speak of. That is in question. Jesus told Peter he would deny him…so…

So these are your merits…so you would say contrary to Paul

Interesting twist…

Do you think so? I was just stating the facts.
I don’t think any Apostle is superior to another, all of them are equals. But hey, that doesn’t mean they did exactly the same, some did more than others.

 

[Wisely]

Despite being one of the Evangelists, John is not the equal of Peter.
Christ did not give John the Keys to the Kingdom; He did to Peter.
In addition, no where is it written that John raised someone from the dead. It is so written about Peter.

-Peter is not equal to John? So if John is an Apostle, then what is Peter? A Super-Apostle?
-Jesus gave the keys to Peter, and through Peter all the Apostles recieved them. Just ask Dr.Chrysostom.
-1 miracle, I give you that one.

 

[pablope]

Something like “bonus points”

John: Peter:
Beloved Apostle. Leader of the Apostles
One of the 12. One of the 12
One of the 4 Evangelists. Didn’t bother to write his own Gospel
Wrote 3 Epistles. Wrote 2 Epistles
Saw the end of the world and wrote Revelations. -
Was the guardian of the Virgin after Jesus’ death. -
Didn’t chicken out at the Crucifixion. Chickened out at the Crucifixion
Got resurrected like the Virgin. Died as a martyr but no resurrection
Is known as the Theologian. -

•                                                                  Evagelized a lot more than John

John: 9
Peter: 5

Actually…you are so biased againt peter…here is some more you missed…

John…Peter

did not act…,.acted to protect the Lord at the Garden
chickened out after the arrest…followed to the courtyard after the arrest
not ready to stand up always…always at the ready to protect the Lord
not named specifically at the tomb after the resurrection…only apostle to be named specifically by the angel at the tomb…
Given no new name…given the name of Rock…
no temple tax paid for…the Lord paid for his temple tax
not given the keys…given the keys to the kingdom…

 

[George_Stegmeir]

According to scripture, as I was taught it by the Jebbies over 65 years ago, St. Peter was chosen by Christ to be the leader of the Apostles, in the same way as the Pope is the leader of the Bishops.
And, according to contemporary (since Vatican II) teaching if the Bishops are the descendants of the Apostles, the Pope is the descendant of St. Peter.
I do not subscribe to the belief of “First amongst equals”. That is an Eastern Orthodox theologic excuse to justify the Great Schism and dates from the 10th Century.