Peters foundation of the church

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So I was discussing scripture with a good Lutheran friend of mine, and we got to the “peter you are the rock and upon this rock I shall build my church” so I was telling him this is how Jesus Christ established the Catholic Church and why its infallible. His response was, that the Catholic Church is the only denomintaion that believes peter founded the Catholic Church. So I said isn’t that the common consensus among people? And he said no.

So what I am asking is if there are any historical documents or evidence I can clearly present to him to show that peter did in fact, found the Catholic Church?
 
Well first of all, St. Peter did not found the Church- Christ founded the Church, on the rock that was the Apostle Peter. You are looking for evidence that proves the primacy of Peter over the other Apostles, and the primacy of Peter’s successors over the other bishops.

For protestants, scriptural evidence is usually all that matters. So here is some help:

Scripture Catholic- The Primacy of Peter

And you can tell your Lutheran friend that since Catholics outnumber protestants, the common consensus is that Peter was the first pope and leader of Christ’s Church.
 
JudeT said:
So I was discussing scripture with a good Lutheran friend of mine, and we got to the “peter you are the rock and upon this rock I shall build my church” so I was telling him this is how Jesus Christ established the Catholic Church and why its infallible. His response was, that the Catholic Church is the only denomintaion that believes peter founded the Catholic Church. So I said isn’t that the common consensus among people? And he said no.

So what I am asking is if there are any historical documents or evidence I can clearly present to him to show that peter did in fact, found the Catholic Church?
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No. You will not find any documents of this kind in Catholcism. Peter did not found the Church, Jesus did. He founded the Church “upon” Peter, but it was Jesus’ doing, not Peter’s.

Matt 16:18-20
18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." 20 Then he strictly charged the disciples to tell no one that he was the Christ.
 
Caesar said:
Well first of all, St. Peter did not found the Church- Christ founded the Church, on the rock that was the Apostle Peter. You are looking for evidence that proves the primacy of Peter over the other Apostles, and the primacy of Peter’s successors over the other bishops.

For protestants, scriptural evidence is usually all that matters. So here is some help:

Scripture Catholic- The Primacy of Peter

And you can tell your Lutheran friend that since Catholics outnumber protestants, the common consensus is that Peter was the first pope and leader of Christ’s Church.
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I like this reply
 
Well I know that Jesus Christ founded the Catholic Church. But my friend believes it is the churches in general he’s talking about. But my real question is one of historical value. Like dates and numbers and stuff. He wants to see proof that the first Pope was peter. He believes Peter wasn’t catholic.

But I’m pretty sure this may be enough info thank you all!👍
 
JudeT said:
Well I know that Jesus Christ founded the Catholic Church. But my friend believes it is the churches in general he’s talking about. But my real question is one of historical value. Like dates and numbers and stuff. He wants to see proof that the first Pope was peter. He believes Peter wasn’t catholic.

But I’m pretty sure this may be enough info thank you all!👍
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Since there was only a single Church at that time (and there is still only one true Church), Peter must have been Catholic.

What exactly is he looking for though? Is he looking for evidence that St. Peter bore the title of Pope?
 
JudeT said:
Well I know that Jesus Christ founded the Catholic Church. But my friend believes it is the churches in general he’s talking about. But my real question is one of historical value. Like dates and numbers and stuff. He wants to see proof that the first Pope was peter. He believes Peter wasn’t catholic.

But I’m pretty sure this may be enough info thank you all!👍
Click to expand...
Well, historically you the list of popes. from St. Peter right down to the present with Benedict XVI in succession. No one realistically denies that. Here’s the same list in a secular encyclopedia. What he disagrees with is what the poe actually is.

For that I’d print out every one of the following tracts from CA and give it to him along with that list of popes - say to him “Ask and you shall receive” 😉 ! The Authority of the Pope Part 1
The Authority of the Pope Part 2
Origins of Peter as Pope
Papal Infallibility
Peter and the Papacy
Peter the Rock
Peter’s Primacy
Peter’s Roman Residency
Peter’s Successors
Was Peter in Rome?

Peace in Christ,

DustinsDad
 
JudeT said:
Well I know that Jesus Christ founded the Catholic Church. But my friend believes it is the churches in general he’s talking about. But my real question is one of historical value. Like dates and numbers and stuff. He wants to see proof that the first Pope was peter. He believes Peter wasn’t catholic.

But I’m pretty sure this may be enough info thank you all!👍
Click to expand...
Most Protestants don’t realize that the Church of the NT is Catholic. However, the word “Catholic” appears as a description for the Church as early as 110. There were no other “denominations” until 1054. Everyone else who split off from Orthodox teaching was considered a heretic, and not part of the Church at all.

PRotestants must reject the history of the Popes, or else they could not continue to be Protestants!
 
It may not be specifically stated, but it is hard to ignore the following. Also it may have not been mentioned because everyone knew it.

**(1) **The keys of the Kingdom of Heaven to bind and loose on earth were given to St. Peter. (St. Matt. 16, 19);
(2) St. Peter’s name is listed first when he, St. James and St. John at the Transfiguration (St. Matt. 17, 1);
(3) The resurrection of Christ was first pronounced by the angel to St. Peter (St. Mark 16, 7);
(4) Our Lord prayed for St. Peter alone and instructed him to “strengthen your brethren” (St. Luke 22, 31-32);
(5) After His resurrection, of all the Apostles Our Lord first appeared to St. Peter (St. Luke 24);
(6) At His first meeting with St. Peter, Our Lord gave him the new name of “Cephas” (Rock) (St. John 1, 42);
(7) It was to St. Peter that Our Lord entrusted the care of His flock, lambs and sheep (St. John 21, 15-17);
(8) The election that chose St. Matthias as the replacement for Judas was conducted by St. Peter (Acts 1, 25);
(9) The first miracle at the Temple was performed by St. Peter (Acts 3);
(10) St. Peter replied to the Sanhedrin on behalf of the Church (Acts 4);
(11) The case of Ananias and Saphira was judged by St. Peter (Acts 5);
(12) St. Peter was the first to preach to the Jews (Acts 2, 14) and to receive Gentiles into the Church (Acts 11);
(13) At the Council of Jerusalem, the multitudes “kept silence” after St. Peter rose up and spoke (Acts 15, 12);
(14) After his conversion St. Paul first went to St. Peter (Gal. 1, 18);
(15) The lists of Apostles in St. Matt. 10; St. Mark 3; St. Luke 6; Acts 1, all place the name of St. Peter first;
**(16) **In the New Testament, St. Peter is mentioned 195 times. St. John is the next highest, only 29 times.

Also look at the writings of the early Church Fathers, such as, St. Clement and St. Irenaeus.

Stillkickin 👍
 
My roommate, who is now Catholic had a problem with this one too.

I had some random almanac, had nothing to do with Catholicism, and showed him they state St. Peter as the first pope. Any and all world almanacs will show this. Usually, in the back of them there are lists of rulers. The Popes are always listed there, next to European, Roman, Chinese rulers, with Peter as the first.

All I did was show him that one and one day he was at a Barnes and Noble and looked at them himself. Well, they all had it.

Now, I do know this is not full proof, someone would have some way of saying it’s wrong or somthing. But if the community of people that have worked on these have this as a general rule, it seems like the historical view as already been figured out.
 
wow thank you for all of this wonder full information. But this yet poses another question. Would this not be the only verse ever needed to be proved to a protestant? Because the way I see it if
PETER a man who talked to JESUS and was told by him to build the church. And Peter was proved to be the Pope, wouldn’t that be all needed, because the church is infallible? I just can’t imagine a response.

I’ll update you on the situation once I speak to my amigo. May Christ reward you with knowledge just as you have me.
 
JudeT,
Most would agree with your statement. It seems rather obvious that Peter was appointed by Christ as the first leader of his Church. However if you are a Protestant you can and many do deny the obvious truth. I have read and reread the Protestant logic and still have a difficult time understanding it but I’ll give it a go. First they believe that Christ was referring to the church as the rock and not Peter. They also say that petros which is Greek for rock refers to a small rock or pebble and therefore could not have been referring to Peter as the head of the first church. Protestants have created this sort of twisted logic because, as has been said, if they don’t refute the Scripture verses to suit their beliefs then they would have to become Catholics. Patrick Madrid, a well known Catholic author, has several books that do a good job of explaining the Catholic doctrines.
I might also point out that some Protestants do believe that Peter was the first Pope and headed the first church which is known today as the Catholic church. Now what happened to that church? Around 400AD Constantine, Emperor of Rome declared that the the early church (Catholic) was to be the religion of Rome. The Protestants believe when that happened many pagans came into the church and brought with them their pagan rituals, incense black magic etc. etc and the first church fell into apostasy. It lost its true meaning. Then in the 15 century Luther and others sparked the Reformation with their objections to the religion as they saw it and Protestantism was born. As a result we now have over 30,000 different forms of Prostestantism.
 
JudeT said:
wow thank you for all of this wonder full information. But this yet poses another question. Would this not be the only verse ever needed to be proved to a protestant? Because the way I see it if
PETER a man who talked to JESUS and was told by him to build the church. And Peter was proved to be the Pope, wouldn’t that be all needed, because the church is infallible? I just can’t imagine a response.
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No. Protestants don’t recognize or accept the infallibility of the Church. That is part of what makes them Protestant. They are in protest against authority. The authority that Jesus appointed to guide the Church, including the teaching authority, and the apostolic succession.
 
I think the fact that St. Peter is mentioned 155 times in the New Testament, and the rest of the Apostles combined are mentioned 130 times explains a lot. It is a testament to the importance and primacy of St. Peter. Also, something about the Keys to the Kingdom or something… 👍
 
You are all correct. WE believe what is stated in the bible. WE understand as best we can but listen to Protestants talk abut it and they have a whole different spin on things. I once heard a former Protestant Clergy (now Catholic) respond to this question regarding Scripture verses that did not support their position. He said, “We just don’t discuss those verses at our services.” They also have several methods of skirting the obvious. They pull out of context verses so that the complete truth is not seen, known or understood. Confuse you with verses from different parts of Scripture so after a time you don’t know what you were thinking. Simply ignore the obvious printed word, and/or quote from another verse that supports their position better than yours. I once asked some Baptist friends about communion. I quoted the verses concerning the the Last Supper, and the verses concerning unless you eat my body and drink my blood Etc. They responded by saying that they believed in the Real Presence. I was shocked and confused and didn’t really know what to say to them except. Then why aren’t you a Catholic?. They also believe in, once saved always saved and that most people will end up in heaven. They believe that God is a loving God and all except a few like Hitler will be in heaven.
 
JudeT said:
So I was discussing scripture with a good Lutheran friend of mine, and we got to the “peter you are the rock and upon this rock I shall build my church” so I was telling him this is how Jesus Christ established the Catholic Church and why its infallible. His response was, that the Catholic Church is the only denomintaion that believes peter founded the Catholic Church. So I said isn’t that the common consensus among people? And he said no.

So what I am asking is if there are any historical documents or evidence I can clearly present to him to show that peter did in fact, found the Catholic Church?
Click to expand...
Jesus Christ did establish the Church but the Church as a whole is not infallible as it is led by man- God never meant for the Church to be a building, but a gathering of his followers… God is the only infallible being in this reality and it’s non-sensual to say otherwise… Again I say man is prone to mistakes and has a sinful nature… the Catholic Church is led by a man and is therefore fallible.

There were plenty of these churches back in St. Peter’s time, not just the Catholic Church.
 
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