Petition for all to celebrate Easter on same day

[Montalo]

Amen to that! :bowdown2:

As for me, I will follow the Orthodox calculation for Pascha, but any of my Western Brothers in Christ who follow a newer calculation in obedience to their lawful Church authorities I say “amen” to God’s blessing for you to do so! I am happy that at least sometimes we have the same day and can rejoice together!

A little side note though, some of you have said that it is the Julian Calender vs the Gregorian Calender that has made the dates sometimes different. This is not entirely true. The actual calculation is different. The newer way to calculate Easter is much simpler than the older way. The newer way is the first Sunday after the first full moon after the Vernal Equinox. The older way is much more complex. Here is the older formula:

The Following procedure gives the Julian Calendar date for Pascha in any year:

1. 
   *]Divide the year by 4. Discard the whole number quotient. The remainder = a.
   *]Divide the year by 7. Discard the quotient. The remainder = b.
   *]Divide the year by 19. Discard the quotient. The remainder = c.
   *]Compute (19c + 15) / 30. Discard the quotient. The remainder = d.
   *]Compute (2a + 4b - d + 34) / 7. Discard the quotient. The remainder = e.
   *]Compute (d + e + 114) / 31. The quotient = f. The remainder = g.
   
   “f” is the month in which Pascha occurs (3 = March; 4 = April)
   “g + 1” is the day of the month.
   
   Most of the world continued to follow this older “Orthodox” date for Easter even after the new date was started by Rome in October of 1582. It wasn’t until England switched in 1752 that the newer formula was more widely followed (except by the Orthodox).

1. 
   I have never heard this, but this is fascinating. Is this still the pattern used by the Church, or is the newer method what is used

 

[Joseph_L_Varga]

Yeah, God sends the Orthodox a miracle EVERY year telling them to celebrate Easter on the Roman Catholics’ calendar.

The miracle of the Holy Fire occurs only on the Easter Vigil of the Catholic Church, NOT on the easter vigil of the Orthodox, much to the dismay of the Byzantines! They retreive the fire and distribute it, but *the fire miraculously appears *in the tomb of Jesus on the Easter vigil of the Roman Church.

2008• March 23 - Easter Sunday (Western)
• April 27 - Easter Sunday (Orthodox)
2009 Easter Sunday April 12 (same)
2010 Easter Sunday April 4 (same)
2011 - Easter Sunday - April 24th (same)
2012 - Easter Sunday - April 15th
2013 - Easter Sunday - May 5th
2014 - Easter Sunday - April 20th (same)
2015 - Easter Sunday - April 12th
2016 - Easter Sunday - May 1st
2017 - Easter Sunday - April 16th (same)

Waterbender, are you sure this is true?

If this is true, that would be a bombshell!

I was told by my Russian Orthodox acquaintances that the Holy Fire is one major reason why they reject not only Catholicism, but also the New Calendar. My friend John VIII could probably tell more about Russian Orthodox opinions, since he has been a part of the Russian EOC for some 20 years. I know much less about it, but the Russian priest with ROCOR (Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia) went so far as to advise his parishioners not to even present themselves for Holy Communion at the New Calendar churches of the Greek and Antiochian EOC. And it was all based on the Miracle of the Holy Fire. They believed that annually occurring miracle is a proof that transition to the New Calendar has been against God’s will, not only in the Roman Catholic Church, but also in the “New Calendar” Eastern Orthodox Churches. Although, obviously, New Calendar EOC like Constantinople etc. only use the New Calendar for the fixed feasts (Christmas), and still use the Old Calendar for Pascha and other moving feasts.

Since I don’t doubt that the Holy Fire is truly a miraculous event, e.g. pilgrims saw their candles lit without any human intervention, and I also can’t bring myself to think that this annual miracle, going back some 1600 years (the earliest documentation from around the 4th century) would come from the devil, therefore I have been always thinking that this is a miracle from God, and that we Catholics must pay attention to it, and perhaps even agree to move our Pascha to the same day on which our EO brethren receive this miracle and celebrate their Pascha.

But now, Waterbender, are you saying that the Miracle only occurs when EO and Catholic Pascha coincide?

Unifying the day of Pascha is prominently featured as Jesus Christ’s instruction to the visionary Myrna Nazzour, in Soufanieh. Both Jesus Christ and Theotokos appeared many times to Myrna and told her that we must re-unite our Churches, and we must start it by unifying the day on which Pascha is celebrated.

We must unify the day of Pascha, we laypeople can’t really do it, but must demand it from our Bishops to do it.

There’s an EO-Catholic consultation going on regarding this, it was started way back when Pope John Paul II was alive. Pope JP2 already said several years ago, “whatever you will agree on, I will approve it!”. Also, I’m pretty confident Pope Benedict XVI will take the same approach. That is, if the EO-Catholic consultation agrees on a joint proposal, the Pope will happily approve it.

Frankly, I can’t understand why it takes so long to come up with a joint proposal.

Well, I guess, it’s time for us laypeople to go and pray that our leaders, our Bishops (both Orthodox and Catholic) come to a swift agreement to unite the day of Pascha!

 

[Spirithound]

By the way, what are the reasons the RC changed to the Gregorian calendar?

The prior calendar design was empirically determined to be short by 19 (something like that) minutes a year.

And by 1582, the discrepancy had shifted the orientation of the calendar relative to the equinoxes and solstices by 10 days. So, October 5-14, 1582 were omitted, going straight from October 4 to October 15, and a new, more complex system of leap years was implemented.

And this is why after St. Teresa of Avila died, the world lost 10 days!

 

[ProVobis]

and the formula for determining leap years was revised so that only years divisible by 400 (e.g., 1600, 2000) at the end of a century would be leap years.

FWIW, there’s a small chance it may be necessary to make 4000 a non-leap year.

In the Gregorian calendar, the current standard calendar in most of the world, most years that are evenly divisible by 4 are leap years. In each leap year, the month of February has 29 days instead of 28. Adding an extra day to the calendar every four years compensates for the fact that a period of 365 days is shorter than a solar year by almost 6 hours.

However, some exceptions to this rule are required since the duration of a solar year is slightly less than 365.25 days. Years that are evenly divisible by 100 are not leap years, unless they are also evenly divisible by 400, in which case they are leap years.[2][3] For example, 1600 and 2000 were leap years, but 1700, 1800 and 1900 were not. Similarly, 2100, 2200, 2300, 2500, 2600, 2700, 2900 and 3000 will not be leap years, but 2400 and 2800 will be. By this rule, the average number of days per year will be 365 + 1/4 − 1/100 + 1/400 = 365.2425, which is 365 days, 5 hours, 49 minutes, and 12 seconds. The Gregorian calendar was designed to keep the vernal equinox on or close to March 21, so that the date of Easter (celebrated on the Sunday after the 14th day of the Moon—i.e. a full moon—that falls on or after March 21) remains correct with respect to the vernal equinox.[4] The vernal equinox year is about 365.242374 days long (and increasing).

The marginal difference of 0.000125 days between the Gregorian calendar average year and the actual year means that, in around 8,000 years, the calendar will be about one day behind where it is now. But in 8,000 years, the length of the vernal equinox year will have changed by an amount that cannot be accurately predicted (see below). Therefore, the current Gregorian calendar suffices for practical purposes, and the correction suggested by John Herschel of making 4000 a non-leap year will probably not be necessary.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leap_year

 

[JohnVIII]

Well, I guess, it’s time for us laypeople to go and pray that our leaders, our Bishops (both Orthodox and Catholic) come to a swift agreement to unite the day of Pascha!

No, that’s ok. Thanks anyway. We Orthodox want to keep the Holy Fire to ourselves! : Like you said, it proves beyond any doubt that the Orthodox are exclusively the One True Church.

Speaking of Signs from God, yesterday was Holy Pascha and the last post I personally made yesterday was my 666’ed post on this forum! I am now braking that number by this post on the day after Pascha which is my 667’th post. There has GOT TO BE some cosmic significance to this! But WHAT can it be? – What CAN it be??

 

[coco2]

No, that’s ok. Thanks anyway. We Orthodox want to keep the Holy Fire to ourselves! : Like you said, it proves beyond any doubt that the Orthodox are exclusively the One True Church.

Speaking of Signs from God, yesterday was Holy Pascha and the last post I personally made yesterday was my 666’ed post on this forum! I am now braking that number by this post on the day after Pascha which is my 667’th post. There has GOT TO BE some cosmic significance to this! But WHAT can it be? – What CAN it be??

I find it interesting that you want to keep “the One True Church” to yourself and not wanting others to share in your Holy Fire.

Once again, I have to say I have not heard of the Holy Fire before. Does this light appear EVERY year on the date the Orthodox celebrate Easter? Does it happen when Rome and Orthodox celebrate on the same date?

 

[JohnVIII]

I find it interesting that you want to keep “the One True Church” to yourself and not wanting others to share in your Holy Fire.

Once again, I have to say I have not heard of the Holy Fire before. Does this light appear EVERY year on the date the Orthodox celebrate Easter? Does it happen when Rome and Orthodox celebrate on the same date?

The Holy Fire comes to anyone who is there, at the Church of the Holy Sepulcher in Jerusalem on the night before Holy Pascha. This miracle has continued year after year for many centuries now.

Christ is Risen!

 

[coco2]

The Holy Fire comes to anyone who is there, at the Church of the Holy Sepulcher in Jerusalem on the night before Holy Pascha. This miracle has continued year after year for many centuries now.

Christ is Risen!

The night before Holy Pascha? Does this refer to the night before Easter ( Easter vigil for Romans), or Holy Thursday ( Night of last supper) or Good Friday ( Night of death of Jesus)? I’m not familiar and just trying to find out which night of Holy week this happens.

 

[puzzleannie]

If I thought petitions did any good I would sign, I think would be an enormous step toward Christian unity.

 

[Bluegoat]

If I recall corectly, Orthodoxy says that which calender is used is up to the discretion of the bishop, and claiming that this is an essential doctrine has no more merit than other calender/date related schisms and heresies, like the Quartodecimans.

Really - a calender is not a “fact”. It is a kind of clock. Those who insist that using the old calender is a necessity should, to be consistent, refuse other post-Nicene innovations in their churches - like digital clocks, daylight savings time, or even electric lights.

 

[JohnVIII]

The night before Holy Pascha? Does this refer to the night before Easter ( Easter vigil for Romans), or Holy Thursday ( Night of last supper) or Good Friday ( Night of death of Jesus)? I’m not familiar and just trying to find out which night of Holy week this happens.

Easter Vigil

Pascha = Easter

The Greek Patriarch of Jerusalem goes into the Tomb and comes out with the Holy Fire. But it does not have to be the Patriarch, anyone who is there can receive the Holy Fire. I know of a case where a nun was there and the Holy Fire came to her.

You can see how tempting it would be for an Orthodox to use this miracle to prove that God approves only the old date for Pascha. Who knows for sure? It could be nothing more than God manifesting that He is still with us, as He promised He would be. At the end of the Divine Liturgy (Divine Liturgy = Mass) the priest says “Christ is in our midst!” and the people reply, “He is and shall be!” It shouldn’t be surprising that there are miracles at such a Holy place and where people of faith have prayed for over a 1000 years!

 

[Erich]

The newer way to calculate Easter is much simpler than the older way. The newer way is the first Sunday after the first full moon after the Vernal Equinox.

From Wikipedia:
By the later 2nd century, it was accepted that the celebration of Pascha (Easter) was a practice of the disciples and an undisputed tradition. The Quartodeciman controversy, the first of several Paschal/Easter controversies, then arose concerning the date on which Pascha should be celebrated.

The term “Quartodeciman” refers to the practice of celebrating Pascha or Easter on Nisan 14 of the Hebrew calendar, “the Lord’s passover” (Leviticus 23:5). According to the church historian Eusebius, the Quartodeciman Polycarp (bishop of Smyrna, by tradition a disciple of John the Evangelist) debated the question with Anicetus (bishop of Rome). The Roman province of Asia was Quartodeciman, while the Roman and Alexandrian churches continued the fast until the Sunday following, wishing to associate Easter with Sunday. Neither Polycarp nor Anicetus persuaded the other, but they did not consider the matter schismatic either, parting in peace and leaving the question unsettled.
…
It is not known how long the Nisan 14 practice continued. But both those who followed the Nisan 14 custom, and those who set Easter to the following Sunday (the Sunday of Unleavened Bread) had in common the custom of consulting their Jewish neighbors to learn when the month of Nisan would fall, and setting their festival accordingly. By the later 3rd century, however, some Christians began to express dissatisfaction with the custom of relying on the Jewish community to determine the date of Easter. The chief complaint was that the Jewish communities sometimes erred in setting Passover to fall before the northern hemisphere spring equinox.