Petitioning to Change Rites

[LeoXIV]

I have a Latin Rite Catholic friend who absolutely loves the Eastern Rite, and attends the UGCC parish more often than his Latin parish. He seems to make a more personal and spiritual connection to that tradition of the Church than his birth rite, and so I (I myself am a Latin Rite Catholic) made the suggestion that he should look into changing rites.

Now, this is something he is interested in, but he believes it is impossible to do. I know it is not an easy thing to do, and certainly isn’t something to be taken lightly; however, I would like to help him in anyway I can. How does one go about petitioning to change rites? Who does he need to inform, and what measures need to be taken for him to do this?

Benedictum Nomen Sanctum eius!

 

[malphono]

It’s not impossible. My suggestion would be for the person to discuss the matter with the UGCC priest, who should be able to guide him through the process.

 

[praise_Jesus_1]

I might be misinterpreting this but I thought as Catholics we were free to celebrate mass in any rite. I used to go to the Ukrainian Catholic parish for some time when I lived near there. I wasn’t aware there was any process one had to go through. Am I misinterpreting something?

 

[malphono]

I might be misinterpreting this but I thought as Catholics we were free to celebrate mass in any rite. I used to go to the Ukrainian Catholic parish for some time when I lived near there. I wasn’t aware there was any process one had to go through. Am I misinterpreting something?

One may always attend the liturgy and receive the Eucharist in a different Church sui juris: there are no restrictions on that at all. But to become a member of another Church sui juris is a different story.

 

[praise_Jesus_1]

Thanks malphono. I did some quick research and saw that I did misinterpret this.

 

[Aramis]

Before vatican II, it was in fact not permitted to change canonical enrollment from the Roman Church to any Eastern Church, but easy to go from Eastern to Roman.

THe process is actually straightforward. Notify the bishops: your Roman Rite bishop and the EC Bishop by letter of your desire.

 

[GodIsGracious]

I have a Latin Rite Catholic friend who absolutely loves the Eastern Rite, and attends the UGCC parish more often than his Latin parish. He seems to make a more personal and spiritual connection to that tradition of the Church than his birth rite, and so I (I myself am a Latin Rite Catholic) made the suggestion that he should look into changing rites.

Now, this is something he is interested in, but he believes it is impossible to do. I know it is not an easy thing to do, and certainly isn’t something to be taken lightly; however, I would like to help him in anyway I can. How does one go about petitioning to change rites? Who does he need to inform, and what measures need to be taken for him to do this?

Benedictum Nomen Sanctum eius!

First and foremost, I’m not going to try and discourage anyone from changing Rites. I will try and discourage someone from completely LEAVING the Catholic church, but this is not the situation.

That said, why should your friend change rites? How would that make it any easier?

I realize that Latin Rite probably has some more obligations (maybe? Not sure) than Eastern Rite. So maybe that is how it would make things easier for your friend.

I only ask because I am currently dating a Byzantine Catholic. We alternate between Mass (Latin Rite - me) and Divine Liturgy (Eastern Rite - him). I find both to be very very beautiful rites.

I do know (I read it somewhere here on CAF - I’ll have to look but don’t have time right now) that a Latin Rite can attend Eastern Rite Divine Liturgies, they are, however, bound by the Latin Rite and their holy days of obligation, and other things. Not exactly sure. Maybe if your friend did switch rites that would free your friend from Latin Rite obligations.

The way we’re living our life is that I’m staying Latin Rite and he is staying Eastern Rite. We alternate between Mass and Divine Liturgy. The only “issue” would be marriage. Which rite? Well, we don’t know yet since we’re not looking at that right now.

So far, things are pretty easy for us.

Again, I’m not trying to discourage. It may very well be that your friend should change rites and he’ll be able to advance spiritually. I’m just curious as to why you think it would be easier for your friend to switch rites. I may have missed something so that it why I am asking.

 

[Cluny]

I realize that Latin Rite probably has some more obligations (maybe? Not sure) than Eastern Rite. So maybe that is how it would make things easier for your friend.

Where did you get this idea?

Traditional fasting practices are actually stricter in most Eastern Catholic Churches.

 

[GodIsGracious]

Where did you get this idea?

Traditional fasting practices are actually stricter in most Eastern Catholic Churches.

That’s why I said “maybe? Not sure.” I actually know that fasting practices can be stricter as the Byz man in my life would tell me bits of things as they come up. I’m still learning about Latin Rite as it is and so I’m getting bits and pieces of Eastern Rite as I learn about them in Latin Rite.

Give me time to find the post I am thinking of that gave me this impression. I just don’t have time right now to do a search. I wasn’t thinking specifically of fasting, per se. I will get back to this thread with a link to the post I was thinking. Srsly! I promise!

 

[LeoXIV]

First and foremost, I’m not going to try and discourage anyone from changing Rites. I will try and discourage someone from completely LEAVING the Catholic church, but this is not the situation.

That said, why should your friend change rites? How would that make it any easier?

I realize that Latin Rite probably has some more obligations (maybe? Not sure) than Eastern Rite. So maybe that is how it would make things easier for your friend.

I only ask because I am currently dating a Byzantine Catholic. We alternate between Mass (Latin Rite - me) and Divine Liturgy (Eastern Rite - him). I find both to be very very beautiful rites.

I do know (I read it somewhere here on CAF - I’ll have to look but don’t have time right now) that a Latin Rite can attend Eastern Rite Divine Liturgies, they are, however, bound by the Latin Rite and their holy days of obligation, and other things. Not exactly sure. Maybe if your friend did switch rites that would free your friend from Latin Rite obligations.

The way we’re living our life is that I’m staying Latin Rite and he is staying Eastern Rite. We alternate between Mass and Divine Liturgy. The only “issue” would be marriage. Which rite? Well, we don’t know yet since we’re not looking at that right now.

So far, things are pretty easy for us.

Again, I’m not trying to discourage. It may very well be that your friend should change rites and he’ll be able to advance spiritually. I’m just curious as to why you think it would be easier for your friend to switch rites. I may have missed something so that it why I am asking.

He seems to make a stronger spiritual connection with the eastern rite than the latin. He’s not saying that the Latin rite is deficient in anyway, but his heart, mind, and soul seem more in-tune with that of the Eastern traditions. To be honest he has been contemplating switching rites for several years - but has been staying in the Latin Rite due to the fact it is the tradition of his ancestors and he wanted to honour that (plus his family likes the fact that they all go to the same parish). But recently he has said that, in truth, attending the Novus Ordo liturgy and remaining Latin Rite for that purpose doesn’t really make sense, since his ancestors wouldn’t recognize the liturgy anyway. Sad, but true.

He has some Eastern Orthodox friends and attended a Divine Liturgy or All-Night Fast (can’t remember which one) and came back absolutely enthusiastic and enlightened. He started attending a UGCC Liturgy soon after, and positively loves it because it envelopes him so completely and he can remain in union with Rome.

 

[GodIsGracious]

Where did you get this idea?

Traditional fasting practices are actually stricter in most Eastern Catholic Churches.

Cluny, ok, I believe this is the post and the thread that led me to believe that there were more (possibly, dunno) obligations in the Latin Rite. Doing a search for “latin rite oblication” showed mostly questions on whether attending an Eastern Rite would fulfill a Latin Rite’s sunday obligation. Note the last few lines in the post.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=5271178&postcount=2

Like I said, “maybe.” Because I honestly don’t know. I KNOW there’s another post I saw somewhere. I just can’t seem to find it.

He seems to make a stronger spiritual connection with the eastern rite than the latin. He’s not saying that the Latin rite is deficient in anyway, but his heart, mind, and soul seem more in-tune with that of the Eastern traditions. To be honest he has been contemplating switching rites for several years - but has been staying in the Latin Rite due to the fact it is the tradition of his ancestors and he wanted to honour that (plus his family likes the fact that they all go to the same parish). But recently he has said that, in truth, attending the Novus Ordo liturgy and remaining Latin Rite for that purpose doesn’t really make sense, since his ancestors wouldn’t recognize the liturgy anyway. Sad, but true.

He has some Eastern Orthodox friends and attended a Divine Liturgy or All-Night Fast (can’t remember which one) and came back absolutely enthusiastic and enlightened. He started attending a UGCC Liturgy soon after, and positively loves it because it envelopes him so completely and he can remain in union with Rome.

ah ha! Ok. Interesting. Perhaps it is more your friend’s style. They are both definitely distinct and different.

I can relate because I attendmy particular Latin Rite parish because of the architecture.

Good luck to your friend!

 

[mlouise007]

Maybe if your friend did switch rites that would free your friend from Latin Rite obligations.

If would. He would then follow the practices of the Church sui juris he was a member of.

The Eastern and Orthodox don’t have this concept of Sunday Obligation, Holy Day of Obligation in the way the RCC does. That is not to say that attending and participating in Divine Liturgy isn’t a central act of living an Orthodox or ECC life. It assuredly is.

I would also add that the meaning and place of Feasts and Feast Days in the East is much greater than in the RCC, including both a Vigil the night before and a Liturgy the day of the Feast. You’ve probably experienced this with the Byzantine Catholic you are dating. Fasting is of course interwoven with these Feasts and Feast Days. This contributes greatly to the overall sacramental-liturgical nature of each day and week.

I’ll put in a plug for Catherine Alexander’s wonderful interviews with the Monks of Holy Resurrection Romanian Catholic Monastery, in this case there are two in particular: Fasting in the Byzantine Church Year with Fr. Moses and Feasting in the Byzantine Church Year with Fr. Moses.

While in the RCC there are these Feast Days and wonderful traditions associated with them historically those traditions seem to largely be lost. Joanna Bogle’s series “Feasts and Seasons” is a wonderful exposure to many of those.

Blessings- Marylouise

 

[mardukm]

Dear sister mlouise,

While in the RCC there are these Feast Days and wonderful traditions associated with them historically those traditions seem to largely be lost.

This only seems to be the case in Western nations. The MAJORITY of Catholics (who are in Asian, Latin, and African countries) are as religious about keeping their Latin Traditions as much as the Easterns and Orientals are for their own, AFAIK. I think it has to do with the environment/society one grows up in, in general.

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[GodIsGracious]

Dear sister mlouise,

This only seems to be the case in Western nations. The MAJORITY of Catholics (who are in Asian, Latin, and African countries) are as religious about keeping their Latin Traditions as much as the Easterns and Orientals are for their own, AFAIK. I think it has to do with the environment/society one grows up in, in general.

Blessings,
Marduk

Agreed.

I have a Mexican/Spanish heritage. The Catholic faith is HUGE in our family, even though we are in America.

 

[mlouise007]

Dear sister mlouise,

This only seems to be the case in Western nations. The MAJORITY of Catholics (who are in Asian, Latin, and African countries) are as religious about keeping their Latin Traditions as much as the Easterns and Orientals are for their own, AFAIK. I think it has to do with the environment/society one grows up in, in general.

Blessings,
Marduk

I have a Mexican/Spanish heritage. The Catholic faith is HUGE in our family, even though we are in America.

Yes! Thank you both very much for that correction. My post reflected the poverty I feel in my local parishes when it comes to Feasts.

Even though I live in one of the most culturally diverse area in the US, and I think the traditions are often huge in the family for those communities here also, unfortunately I don’t see it translating a lot to the local parish level, with a few exceptions. We have the Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe and Simbang Gabi every year in my Deanery. Otherwise I think most of the Feast traditions end up celebrated in what our Diocese calls ethnic [commuter] parishes, along language/country of origin. It’s a sad lack of enriching the life of the neighborhood parish. On the other hand I guess it also represents a natural desire to be where one finds “my paisanos” as my dad called it. In addition to Mass at my local parish most weekends I myself also rotate commuting some distance to two parishes for “cultural” reasons- one Deaf and one Byzantine. LOL

Thanks again!
-Marylouise

 

[Cluny]

He has some Eastern Orthodox friends and attended a Divine Liturgy or All-Night Fast (can’t remember which one) and came back absolutely enthusiastic and enlightened.

I think you mean the All-night Vigil.

This term has two meanings:

1. Vespers and Matins (with maybe First Hour) aggregated; frequently abbreviated, espcially in Matins. This might last a couple of hours or so.
2. Vespers, Compline, Midnight, Matins, Hours (with as few abbreviations as possible) culminating in the Divine Liturgy, which can literally last all night.

 

[GodIsGracious]

Yes! Thank you both very much for that correction. My post reflected the poverty I feel in my local parishes when it comes to Feasts.

I think this is a problem nationwide. Americans (in general) are too consumed with daily living rather than paying attention to spiritual living.

Even though I live in one of the most culturally diverse area in the US, and I think the traditions are often huge in the family for those communities here also, unfortunately I don’t see it translating a lot to the local parish level, with a few exceptions. We have the Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe and Simbang Gabi every year in my Deanery. Otherwise I think most of the Feast traditions end up celebrated in what our Diocese calls ethnic [commuter] parishes, along language/country of origin. It’s a sad lack of enriching the life of the neighborhood parish. On the other hand I guess it also represents a natural desire to be where one finds “my paisanos” as my dad called it. In addition to Mass at my local parish most weekends I myself also rotate commuting some distance to two parishes for “cultural” reasons- one Deaf and one Byzantine. LOL

Thanks again!
-Marylouise

I like the “variety” of rotating between Roman Catholic and Byzantine Catholic services. “Cultural reasons” as well.

 

[LeoXIV]

I think you mean the All-night Vigil.

This term has two meanings:

1. Vespers and Matins (with maybe First Hour) aggregated; frequently abbreviated, espcially in Matins. This might last a couple of hours or so.
2. Vespers, Compline, Midnight, Matins, Hours (with as few abbreviations as possible) culminating in the Divine Liturgy, which can literally last all night.

Thanks so much, I couldn’t remember exactly but All-night Vigil was what he went to.