Petros and petra

  • Thread starter Thread starter allisonP
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
A

allisonP

Guest
Mathew 18
You are peter (petro) and upon this rock(petra) I will build my church.
Ok my Bible say’s(new american sandard) that the word Peter is petro in greek meaning stone and that the word rock in greek is petra.

Is that right?
If so is it possible to believe that jesus was referring to two different things?

Peter is called the stone but the rock is where he will build his church?
 
40.png
allisonP:
Mathew 18
You are peter (petro) and upon this rock(petra) I will build my church.
Ok my Bible say’s(new american sandard) that the word Peter is petro in greek meaning stone and that the word rock in greek is petra.

Is that right?
If so is it possible to believe that jesus was referring to two different things?

Peter is called the stone but the rock is where he will build his church?
Click to expand...
A lot of non Catholics, particularly anti-Catholics make all sorts of quibbles about what Jesus is talking about here.

First, Catholics believe that Jesus is THE Rock, but grammatically, in Mt. 16:18, Peter is the Rock upon which Jesus says he will build his Church. At the very least, when one digs into this particular scripture, one must grapple with the question of what you are thinking if you are content to be part of a Christian body which denies the successors of Peter.

There are several threads on this “rock” question. My favorite is this one: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=45207&highlight=petros . If you do a search for Petros/Petra, you will find most of them.
 
Benedict,
Let me say I am not anti-catholic.
I asked this question sincerly because I read it this morning and because I have been praying for guidence when I read.
I just wanted some opinons from catholics on this who may have already done some studying on this.
Thank you for your response.
Allie
 
I just read the link you gave me!
OH my! I stepped on your toes didnt I? :eek:
I am so sorry!!!
In my hunger for truth I as alot of questions on here that come from real ignorance on my part and I am the first to admit it. :o
 
40.png
allisonP:
Mathew 18
You are peter (petro) and upon this rock(petra) I will build my church.
Ok my Bible say’s(new american sandard) that the word Peter is petro in greek meaning stone and that the word rock in greek is petra.

Is that right?
If so is it possible to believe that jesus was referring to two different things?

Peter is called the stone but the rock is where he will build his church?
Click to expand...
First of all, the commentary seems to be refering to Classical Greek. The Bible was written in Koine Greek, and the word for ‘stone’ in Koine Greek is lithos.

If you read other passages, you will see that Peter is actually called Kephas (Latin spelling Cephas)

That is the Aramaic term for ‘rock’.

The Petros\Petra is a masculinization. In much the same way as we get the word “Jesus” from the Hebrew “Yeshua”. When the Latin Bible was being written, there is no letter ‘Y’ in Latin, that sound is made with a “I” or later a “J”. In addition, that ‘ua’ ending in “Yeshua” would have appeared feminine. So it the name was written with the mascuiline ‘us’ ending - Jesus.

Is it not the same name?
 
40.png
allisonP:
I just read the link you gave me!
OH my! I stepped on your toes didnt I? :eek:
I am so sorry!!!
In my hunger for truth I as alot of questions on here that come from real ignorance on my part and I am the first to admit it. :o
Click to expand...
No problem 🙂 That’s what we are here for, to answer questions.

😃
 
40.png
allisonP:
I just read the link you gave me!
OH my! I stepped on your toes didnt I? :eek:
I am so sorry!!!
In my hunger for truth I as alot of questions on here that come from real ignorance on my part and I am the first to admit it. :o
Click to expand...
Hey! No offense taken at all!

I sensed that you were truly asking a question, even though I am rather surprised that you seem to be unfamiliar with the whole rigamarole surrounding this.

Is the rock Peter? Peter’s Confession? Christ? Hm. For Catholics, it is “all of the above.” The key for us is that we do not try to separate Peter from his confession.

Niggling point: Benedicite (with an “e” – not Benedict) is my signature; my handle is mercygate. Benedicite is Latin for “Blessed be” and is an old form of greeting in monasteries. When you ask permission to speak, you say: Benedicite (Bay-nay-DEE-chee-tay). Doesn’t that just make your day? 😉
 
I like to keep it simple just go to Eph 2:20 which plainly says that the foundation of the church is the prophets and apostles with Jesus as the cornerstone.
 
Daniel Marsh:
I like to keep it simple just go to Eph 2:20 which plainly says that the foundation of the church is the prophets and apostles with Jesus as the cornerstone.
Click to expand...
You quote isn’t quite correct
20 built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the capstone
Click to expand...
 
petra is feminine.

In the Greek, then, Jesus could not have called Simon bar Jona Petra, unless He wanted to give him a woman’s name!
 
The important thing is that Jesus really did change this apostle’s name–from Simon to Rock (Kepha or Cephas). The other apostles recognized the new name given by Jesus and called him that thereafter. If Jesus had meant to refer to something other than Peter as Rock, that name change would not have occurred.

After the name change, the other apostles did not refer to him as Simon or Simon bar Jonah; they called him Cephas --i.e., Rock, or Peter.
 
mercygate,

That’s my favorite thread on the subject, too!

Side note: As several posters have called you “Benedict”, are you considering changing your signature? Or is this your cunning way of teaching Latin (as the Holy Father has asked)?

God Bless,
RyanL
 
40.png
adrift:
You quote isn’t quite correct
Click to expand...
Interresting, Eph 2:20

being built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the chief cornerstone; (WEB)

being built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the chief corner stone; (ASV)

Resting on the base of the Apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the chief keystone, (BBE)

being built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the corner-stone, (DBY)

And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; (KJV)

And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner-stone; (WBS)

You are a building which has been reared on the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets, the cornerstone being Christ Jesus Himself, (WEY)

being built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being chief corner-‘stone’, (YLT)

a cap stone implies that the building is complete?

a cornerstore is the first stone laid.

1 Peter 2:6

Because it is contained in Scripture, “Behold, I lay in Zion a chief cornerstone, chosen, and precious: He who believes in him will not be disappointed.” (WEB)

Because it is contained in scripture, Behold, I lay in Zion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: And he that believeth on him shall not be put to shame. (ASV)

Because it is said in the Writings, See, I am placing a keystone in Zion, of great and special value; and the man who has faith in him will not be put to shame. (BBE)

Because it is contained in the scripture: Behold, I lay in Zion a corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believes on him shall not be put to shame. (DBY)

Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. (KJV)

Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner-stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. (WBS)

For it is contained in Scripture, “See, I am placing on Mount Zion a Cornerstone, chosen, and held in honour, and he whose faith rests on Him shall never have reason to feel ashamed.” (WEY)

Wherefore, also, it is contained in the Writing: ‘Lo, I lay in Zion a chief corner-stone, choice, precious, and he who is believing on him may not be put to shame;’ (YLT)

Have a nice day. 👍
 
tjmiller said:
petra is feminine.

In the Greek, then, Jesus could not have called Simon bar Jona Petra, unless He wanted to give him a woman’s name!
Click to expand...

Hi TJ in Greek the word for “army” (stratia) is feminine, and there are men in the army —.thus Peter would not require a womans name. In Greek gender is simply a way to idendify what words go together.

google.com/search?hl=en&q=Greek+Grammar+gender
 
But “Army” is not, to my knowledge, a proper name - although it would be interesting to see whether any Greek women were ever in fact so named…I don’t think I would want to have been married to one, though… 😛
 
40.png
tjmiller:
But “Army” is not, to my knowledge, a proper name - although it would be interesting to see whether any Greek women were ever in fact so named…I don’t think I would want to have been married to one, though… 😛
Click to expand...
lol
 
You folks seem to be forgetting that Our Divine Lord never uttered the word “petra” or “petros” – both of which are Greek. Our Divine Lord spoke Aramaic. So what he would have said at the time is “Thou are Cephas, and on this cephas I will build by Church” (without the English of course). He would not have said “Thou art Petros, and on this petra I will build my Church.”

Moreover, the Gospel of St. Matthew was originally written in Aramaic by the Holy Apostle and Martyr St. Matthew as the Fathers of the Church unanimously affirm. The Greek texts we have are merely translations of the Aramaic text. You might as well argue that pierre (the French word for rock) and Pierre (the proper name of Peter) are used synonymously by Our Divine Lord because he says “Tu es Pierre, and sur cette pierre je batirai mon eglise” in La Bible de Jerusalem.
 
There doesn’t look to be any arguments voiced on this thread not discussed thoroughly here (thread previously linked by mercygate). That being the case, I thank all who participated; this thread is now closed.

Mane Nobiscum Domine,
Ferdinand Mary
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top