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Ejperchenough
Guest
Nothing, that’s why I asked if I should say anything or just ignore it.
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EasterJoy
Guest
Yes–when you do not have children, it is very hard to tell your friends and family who are deep in the trenches of child-rearing that your interest in their travails is limited and your expertise is essentially nil. It is very hard because it can be very hazardous!Excellent post!! I have 14 nieces and nephews and most of my friends have kids (I’m also very blessed to have a group of single friends without kids). It would be nice to have a girls’ night where the sole topic of conversation didn’t revolve around kids. I just have very little offer. Plus wouldn’t it be nice to have a conversation that everyone can participate in!! Would also be nice to have a short telephone conversation without having to listen to them carry on a conversation with their child(ren) at the same time, but that’s another topic
It is a no-win situation, because the only thing the two of you–that is, you and the parent talking about the trials of parenting–could agree on is that they are the experts and you are not. You cannot make guesses about what might help their situation, as another parent *might *dare to do (if they were brave), because you will be open to the charge of being a know-it-all who would sing a different tune if she had kids of her own (because most parents realize this is exactly where they were, prior to having children, LOL!) You can’t say that you are bored, because it will be taken as an indication that you don’t share their love of their children. Nothing could be farther from the truth, yet people think this. They would not believe that an audience who did not want to hear about the niggling daily problems of a judge is anti-justice. They wouldn’t believe that someone who has a limit to how much they want to hear about a business owner’s problems is anti-business. They would not themselves think that their limit in patience to hearing about their unmarried sister’s cats makes them anti-pet. Let the others betray boredom at their parenting stories, though, and all of a sudden the charge of being anti-child (and even pro-abortion!?!) is raised. No, sometimes the non-parent is inexplicably expected to act thrilled to be included in the day-to-day details of the rearing of some of the great persons the world is ever going to see, and keep their mouth shut except in support and admiration.
Mind you, I say this as a parent with an advanced degree who spent 15 years as a SAHM: News flash: Doing the most important thing in the world does not make every mundane detail of your trials into something interesting to those with no expertise. Doing the most important thing in the world does not mean you don’t have to have any other topic of conversation in order to be an interesting conversational partner. Doing the most important thing in the world does not mean the rest of the world revolves around what you are doing. If you think so, you really need to get out more!
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Ejperchenough
Guest
Believe me I would rather have absolutely no conversation with this person, she starts it, asks about the baby and whatever I reply the conversation goes to her dog examples. Fortunately I don’t see her regularly, she’s an ex colleague.
I do not carry the conversation any further the minute such a statement is said, and just ignore it. I asked for your opinions because I thought if I need to say something or keep ignoring it.
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EasterJoy
Guest
I would vote for the possibility that she starts the baby conversation in order to set up a quid pro quo to babble about her dog. Whether she thinks dogs are the same as babies, that is anyone’s guess–it is hardly beyond the realm of possibility, just not the only possibility–but she certainly seems to believe that dog-lover talk deserves equal time with parenting talk.
I am afraid she has taught you to give her this response: “How is the baby doing? Oh, the baby is doing fine. Actually, we’re all doing fairly well. What have you been up to?” When she starts prattling about the dog, you may then say, “But what about you? What have you been up to?” If she doesn’t come up with an actual person-to-person connection that has nothing to do with her dog, you get away at your first opportunity. If she doesn’t prattle about her dog, but jumps into some other topic, then perhaps this may have been what she wanted all along. You can’t know until you give her a try.
After all, you can’t re-train her. You can’t interrogate her about what on earth she’s thinking. You probably don’t want to know where she thinks her dog ranks with respect to your child. Don’t go there, then. Just try to find mutual ground, and if it cannot be found, free her to find a like-minded soul who will enjoy her company. It won’t be you, so you may as well turn her loose for better prospects.
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marymary1975
Guest
I haven’t said that you cannot be pro life and an animal activist!!! I my own self, am fully pro life and pro animals. But there are people that have their priorities messed up and are fully pro abortion while being animal activist. I know three specifically. One of them to the extreme that she is a full vegetarian because she is against killing animals for food but she supports abortion fully up until birth. The other one I know not that long ago posted on FB something that all life is precious and that it should be a crime to euthanize any animal…but she thinks it is perfectly fine to kill an unborn baby. That is the kind of people that based on the OP’s post that I have a problem with and those are the ones who are problematic, not someone who simply calls their Pets my babies.
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marymary1975
Guest
Many years ago I had a divorce case in my office where the wife wanted to request during the divorce, custody of the dog and request dog support. I am not joking this was a real case. We all looked and her and told her in chorus you are crazy, no you can’t ask for “dog custody.” She got extremely upset at us and insisted that she was the client and we had to do what she wanted. I said I am sorry but I am not going to a court to have the judge yelled at me for half an hour and call me an idiot just because your priorities are wrong. She ended up during us because we wouldn’t get her “dog custody”
So again, yes there are people with priorities messed up. Situations of cohabiting couples on ABC who treat their pets as human they also have their priorities messes up and people who think an animal life is more valuable than an unborn child have their priorities messed up.
However there are many animal lover that they are not like that and they are very clear that animals are not humans, they just love animals in the same way st Francis did.
But the people with messed priorities they heavily big me too.
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Allegra
Guest
I must have missed something. As a dog is property (and in some cases, valuable property) why would it be improper for a woman who is filing divorce to ask for custody of a dog in a divorce proceeding? I mean, people ask for houses, cars, china, jewelry, etc. Why not a dog? Dog support is a little stupid, but custody seems normal to me. (Unless she wanted “joint custody”)
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EasterJoy
Guest
This seems odd to me, too. Asking for a boat and money to keep it in a slip would just be a property division issue. Why would a dog be different?
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severus68
Guest
I agree. There was a recent case in the US where one of the spouses took their two dogs and dumped them somewhere to spite the other. Another of a man killing his wife’s dog to get back at her.And yes, except for a very few exceptions, animals are considered property throughout the world.
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runwaymodel
Guest
Maybe the dog has medical bills or frequents the vet? Those add up too, especially in affluent cities where they overcharge even basic procedures, so actually I don’t see anything outrageous about “dog support”. It’s like, essential maintenance I suppose.
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GEddie
Guest
True, some dogs or cats are high-maintenance.
However, there is no legal rubric for the awarding of dog support, so I can see why a judge might consider this a waste of time.
ICXC NIKA
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runwaymodel
Guest
Sure there is. You can negotiate anything in a divorce—I’ve seen/heard of crazier. If I were a judge I would think fighting over expensive furniture or a boat is a waste of time…certainly not a pet and their needs. But that’s why judges can’t put personal opinion on these things: it’s what the divorcing parties want/is important to them.
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Lost_Sheep
Guest
In some ways, pets are better than kids:When asked if I ever had children, I sometimes anwser that all my kids had four feet and I do know the difference between a pet and a kid (the pet doesn’t leave at age 18).
You don’t have to buy them clothes every year as they grow.
You can feed them the same thing everyday.
You don’t have to pay for an education.
You can leave them alone all day.
You don’t have to worry about hanging with the wrong crowd.
You don’t have to buy them a cell phone.
They’ll never ask to borrow the car.
If they misbehave you can lock them in the basement.
If they get pregnant you can sell your “grandchildren.”
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DeniseNY
Guest
In some ways, pets are better than kids:
You don’t have to buy them clothes every year as they grow.
You can feed them the same thing everyday.
You don’t have to pay for an education.
You can leave them alone all day.
You don’t have to worry about hanging with the wrong crowd.
You don’t have to buy them a cell phone.
They’ll never ask to borrow the car.
If they misbehave you can lock them in the basement.
If they get pregnant you can sell your “grandchildren.”
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lifeisbeautiful
Guest
Interesting, I have met people that clearly view animals as equals to humans. There are plenty of people out there that spend fortunes on their pets as well. I don’t think misplaced value on animals is as rare as some people are suggesting.
I do think it is an issue that affects society as a whole, when children are perceived as equal or less important than animals. I am part of a FB group for my town and it is crazy to see how some people truly feel that animals need to be treated like any other family member (it is not acceptable to move to a new area for a new job if you are unable to find a house that accepts your pets (it doesn’t matter that an apt is all you can afford, it is morally reprehensible to give up “member of your family” to move for a job), it isn’t the dog’s fault that the kid bothered the dog and the kid was hurt by the dog, you should keep the dog and just keep your kid away, you wouldn’t do that to any of your other children, etc etc). I have spoken with people that feel that animals are just like humans, they have the same type of feelings, and similar intelligence, etc etc… but just don’t communicate the same way we do. There are people that would be willing to risk their lives for their pets.
That being said, when faced with a situation where a person is saying something that implies animals have equal rights and dignity as humans, your reaction should really depend on the situation itself. I do feel that a lot of people that feel this way have been hurt in one way or another, and so it is very important to act in charity and love. In some cases there is nothing to be said. In others, there may be an opportunity to say something. It isn’t wrong to love and care for animals; people just need to be able to realize that animals are just not equal to humans.
There are people that are aware of the difference between animals and humans, but maybe they live alone and animals are their company. Animals do bless God and give Him glory as part of His creation, and it is perfectly ok to be grateful for the animal that keeps you company and for the animal to bring you joy. I think sometimes this can be confused with elevating animals to human status, when it is simply someone being thankful for God’s creation.
About divorce cases (and I have no doubt in my mind that in many cases animals are not seen as just another piece of furniture etc):
animallaw.info/intro/custody-pets-divorce
I do think it is an issue that affects society as a whole, when children are perceived as equal or less important than animals. I am part of a FB group for my town and it is crazy to see how some people truly feel that animals need to be treated like any other family member (it is not acceptable to move to a new area for a new job if you are unable to find a house that accepts your pets (it doesn’t matter that an apt is all you can afford, it is morally reprehensible to give up “member of your family” to move for a job), it isn’t the dog’s fault that the kid bothered the dog and the kid was hurt by the dog, you should keep the dog and just keep your kid away, you wouldn’t do that to any of your other children, etc etc). I have spoken with people that feel that animals are just like humans, they have the same type of feelings, and similar intelligence, etc etc… but just don’t communicate the same way we do. There are people that would be willing to risk their lives for their pets.
Catechism said:
That being said, when faced with a situation where a person is saying something that implies animals have equal rights and dignity as humans, your reaction should really depend on the situation itself. I do feel that a lot of people that feel this way have been hurt in one way or another, and so it is very important to act in charity and love. In some cases there is nothing to be said. In others, there may be an opportunity to say something. It isn’t wrong to love and care for animals; people just need to be able to realize that animals are just not equal to humans.
Catechism said:
There are people that are aware of the difference between animals and humans, but maybe they live alone and animals are their company. Animals do bless God and give Him glory as part of His creation, and it is perfectly ok to be grateful for the animal that keeps you company and for the animal to bring you joy. I think sometimes this can be confused with elevating animals to human status, when it is simply someone being thankful for God’s creation.
About divorce cases (and I have no doubt in my mind that in many cases animals are not seen as just another piece of furniture etc):
animallaw.info/intro/custody-pets-divorce
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gardenswithkids
Guest
Until you wrote this, I wondered why you’d be sharing how your baby is sleeping. It sounded originally like you were the one initiating the conversation about your baby’s sleep habits.
Yes, I’ve looked around and noticed the changing trend towards treating pets–especially dogs- like people. Conversely, that means they treat people like dogs. I suspect many such people have something going on that disrupts the normal way of dealing with their fellow human beings.
Not everyone is good at communication. You saw this here in how your original post didn’t accurately explain the situation you wanted to talk about. With this further clarification, I’d bet that the person really wanted to do the talking and give you unsolicited "advice: but started by asking a question. I’ve had strangers give me parenting advice while standing in line at the grocery store. On one such occasion the woman went on to tell me she had no children–and she mistakenly assumed I was a new parent when the child was 8th baby. She seemed nice enough and well meaning, but I detected that something was “off”.
Walking around holding a baby often serves as a conversation starter. People strike up conversations and offer their opinions, whether you ask for them or not. You probably just encountered a pet owner who wanted to talk. How I’d respond to such a person would depend on a variety of things, including if I thought the person was mentally balanced. Sometimes it’s best to just smile and nod, then change the conversation or excuse ourselves.
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Lost_Sheep
Guest
“The righteous man cares for the needs of his animals” -Proverbs 12:10
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GEddie
Guest
No-one has said we shouldn’t.
You and I are on the same page, like I said, my dog is my baby. But I’d be first to admit she’s not human.
ICXC NIKA.
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marymary1975
Guest
Because a dog is not a child. You correctly mentioned that animals are just property and as property they usually hold very very little value. You cannot ask for “custody” of a dog, because they are not human and their value is so low that for a Court it would be ridiculous to include it as valuable property. Houses as well as cars hold a monetary value. If you sell them you will get considerable money for them. Hiw much money would you get fir the private sale of a dog? Not much. So that is where the difference lies. They Are treated on the same way as any non valuable property.
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Lost_Sheep
Guest
My wife and I can say with a clear conscience that when we got married 29 years ago we fully intended to start a family. Unfortunately, things didn’t work out that way.
So our dogs are our “kids”.
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