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TheLittleLady
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Actually you can get such a certificate online for a small fee.
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DarkLight
Guest
Right, but that certificate doesn’t actually have any more value than one I printed off my home printer. It’s not got any regulatory weight behind it, all it certifies is that I paid a small fee. And anyone can get one of those certificates, you don’t have to actually prove you need a service dog to get one. The only “value” to that certificate is that it makes it easier to deal with people who don’t know how those certificates actually work.
In order to have a certificate that means something, you’d have to have some sort of genuine regulatory agency that was deciding who did and did not need a service dog and what dogs qualified.
In order to have a certificate that means something, you’d have to have some sort of genuine regulatory agency that was deciding who did and did not need a service dog and what dogs qualified.
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AbideWithMe
Guest
Xanthippe—I’m sorry again; it’s not my intention to seem rude. I’ve had too much that I need to take care of IRL after being sick for awhile, but I really do want to get back to this thread when I can. Thanks for finding the sign.
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Xanthippe_Voorhees
Guest
You’re welcome.
No worries.
I’m glad you are on the mend.
No worries.
I’m glad you are on the mend.
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SuperLuigi
Guest
This kind of thing has obviously been abused. It’s really up to the owners and management as to which (if any) animals are allowed on their property.
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DarkLight
Guest
That isn’t the way it works legally in the U.S. You do legally have to allow service animals in establishments open to the public, unless the animal is being disruptive or there’s a health or safety hazard. You can’t require registration because there isn’t any real official registration to be had. You can ask whether the animal is a service animal, and what specific task or tasks the animal has been trained to perform. (That being the legal definition of a service animal - one who is trained to perform a specific task for the benefit of a disabled person.)
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Xanthippe_Voorhees
Guest
The caveat to that—only dogs and miniature horses are legally allowed to be service animals. So cats, rabbits, monkies, etc can be flat out not allowed.That isn’t the way it works legally in the U.S. You do legally have to allow service animals in establishments open to the public, unless the animal is being disruptive or there’s a health or safety hazard. You can’t require registration because there isn’t any real official registration to be had. You can ask whether the animal is a service animal, and what specific task or tasks the animal has been trained to perform. (That being the legal definition of a service animal - one who is trained to perform a specific task for the benefit of a disabled person.)
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SuperLuigi
Guest
Okay, Darklight, you win. I think it should be like I said, but you’re right in that it isn’t.
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DarkLight
Guest
It’s a difficult issue, I think. I completely agree that it does get abused by people who use it to just bring pets in. At the same time I do support laws that allow people with a legitimate need to have a service animal to be able to go in the same stores as everyone else. Otherwise you run the risk of “sorry, you don’t get to go grocery shopping because you need a service dog and our other customers would rather just not have dogs there.” Those in need of service dogs aren’t a big enough proportion of the population to really put economic pressure on stores to allow them.
I wouldn’t be opposed to a legitimate registry if it could be done without adding significant expense or delays, but that’s kind of hard. With a lot of the types of dogs, there are people who genuinely need them who may appear completely healthy.
I wouldn’t be opposed to a legitimate registry if it could be done without adding significant expense or delays, but that’s kind of hard. With a lot of the types of dogs, there are people who genuinely need them who may appear completely healthy.
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Xanthippe_Voorhees
Guest
I’d like to see CGC (Canine Good Citizen) for all service dogs. Typically, a young dog (min 13 months old) must pass the CGC to even be on the path to a service dog.It’s a difficult issue, I think. I completely agree that it does get abused by people who use it to just bring pets in. At the same time I do support laws that allow people with a legitimate need to have a service animal to be able to go in the same stores as everyone else. Otherwise you run the risk of “sorry, you don’t get to go grocery shopping because you need a service dog and our other customers would rather just not have dogs there.” Those in need of service dogs aren’t a big enough proportion of the population to really put economic pressure on stores to allow them.
I wouldn’t be opposed to a legitimate registry if it could be done without adding significant expense or delays, but that’s kind of hard. With a lot of the types of dogs, there are people who genuinely need them who may appear completely healthy.
Honestly, I’d like ESA’s who have been approved for in-public service to also require CGC. I think many people would have much less of an issue with dogs in public if they had CGC.
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TheLittleLady
Guest
Something like a disabled parking permit. Your treating physician completes the paperwork and you take it to the DMV/Revenue office and get your permit.
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AbideWithMe
Guest
Xanthippe, what is your primary concern with dogs in stores? In your opening post I don’t see any reason to have safety concerns, but maybe you do?
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Xanthippe_Voorhees
Guest
In hardware stores, more than once, I’ve nearly injured a pet dog who’s running willy-nilly back and forth on a 6+foot leash and dives under my lumber cart. Not those standard carts but the big giant ones for carrying 8+ foot lumber pieces. They’re unwieldy at best, nevermind having to watch out for a misbehaving dog.Xanthippe, what is your primary concern with dogs in stores? In your opening post I don’t see any reason to have safety concerns, but maybe you do?
As a mother with small children (and a special needs niece), I am concerned with misbehaving dogs, especially little dogs. Small dogs (those under 20 pounds) account for about 80% of the nearly 5 MILLION non-fatal bite injuries in the US. Of the 20 most common “purebred” dogs to bite, small dogs make up 15 of them. Which is why a yippy dog in a shopping cart near my toddler concerns me greatly. Service dogs do not yip, nor are they ever off-leash so those dogs are obviously mal-trained pets.
I have a dog. I have her Canine Good Citizen certified. I consider this the lowest form of training socially permissible for taking a dog out of the house for ANY reason besides the vet. Unfortunately, most people do not train their pets at all and STILL take them out of their homes.
So what it boils down to is an issue of decorum and safety. An off-leash dog, untrained small dog is like carrying around and constantly brandishing a loaded pellet/airsoft gun…not likely to kill but can, and will, do harm.
Those who are bringing non-service dogs into stores, ignoring the no pet rules, are simply rude and thoughtless persons who care only for their needs. Humans deserve the freedom to go places without the fear of troublesome animals…especally when those rules are laid out on the door.
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TheLittleLady
Guest
Ask people who work in a store. The worst problem is the dogs pee, male dogs will lift their leg and pee on an entire display (yes, in the grocery store), store employees clean up dog poo in every aisle
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crenfro
Guest
Hello.
Just to clarify, were you in the grocery store or the hardware store? At the start of your post you said “grocery store,” but later down in the post you stated “posted on the door to the hardware store ‘no pets’…” A lot of hardware stores carry dog gear and sometimes you have to bring in the dog to make sure the collar, leash, whatever fits, and the woman may have had an understanding with the store about her dog.
Also, it’s good to teach your little one about how to treat dogs. It’s much better to ask permission first of the owner if you can pet or otherwise show the dog interest/affection. Dogs, especially little dogs, get threatened very easily.
My rule for bringing my pets to the store is that it must be a store where dogs are allowed plus it needs to be very cool outside → 50 degrees F is my cut-off limit, otherwise it’s too warm for them to sit in the car. And no matter what the temperature, the car window should always be open at least a crack.
Also, dogs should go through basic obedience classes before they’re allowed to be in people society. I haven’t had time yet to bring my younger dog to obedience class so he gets banished to the basement when people come over. He isn’t ready to be around people.
I do think that dogs should be allowed anywhere people go, but that if they’re not well-behaved they need to stay home until their person is responsible enough to teach them manners. It’s usually the person’s fault that a dog is not well-behaved, not the dog’s, is my opinion.
Now as for people manners, … I hesitate to comment.
A lot of people who cling to their pets have been rejected and/or abused a some point in their life and this is the only creature who has given them unconditional love.
I’m sorry if this isn’t the answer you’re looking for. You sound like you were having an exasperating day and didn’t need a dirty look from someone on top of the exasperation. I hope you don’t encounter any more rude dogs or people.
my two cents…
Just to clarify, were you in the grocery store or the hardware store? At the start of your post you said “grocery store,” but later down in the post you stated “posted on the door to the hardware store ‘no pets’…” A lot of hardware stores carry dog gear and sometimes you have to bring in the dog to make sure the collar, leash, whatever fits, and the woman may have had an understanding with the store about her dog.
Also, it’s good to teach your little one about how to treat dogs. It’s much better to ask permission first of the owner if you can pet or otherwise show the dog interest/affection. Dogs, especially little dogs, get threatened very easily.
My rule for bringing my pets to the store is that it must be a store where dogs are allowed plus it needs to be very cool outside → 50 degrees F is my cut-off limit, otherwise it’s too warm for them to sit in the car. And no matter what the temperature, the car window should always be open at least a crack.
Also, dogs should go through basic obedience classes before they’re allowed to be in people society. I haven’t had time yet to bring my younger dog to obedience class so he gets banished to the basement when people come over. He isn’t ready to be around people.
I do think that dogs should be allowed anywhere people go, but that if they’re not well-behaved they need to stay home until their person is responsible enough to teach them manners. It’s usually the person’s fault that a dog is not well-behaved, not the dog’s, is my opinion.
Now as for people manners, … I hesitate to comment.
A lot of people who cling to their pets have been rejected and/or abused a some point in their life and this is the only creature who has given them unconditional love.
I’m sorry if this isn’t the answer you’re looking for. You sound like you were having an exasperating day and didn’t need a dirty look from someone on top of the exasperation. I hope you don’t encounter any more rude dogs or people.
my two cents…
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Xanthippe_Voorhees
Guest
No pets in stores if they are not permitted via a notice on the door.
Most people observe this in the grocery store. The do not a chain hardware stores.
Chain hardware stores do not carry pet items. Perhaps a local one does, but not Home Depot.
Period.
Don’t out your put in your car if you’re doing errands.
My child knows how to treat dogs because she’s around them. It does not change the statistical danger of an unprovoked bite. I do not allow my child near the dogs of people who can’t read signs on the door. If they can’t read a sign, they cannot be trusted to take care of an animal.
Most people observe this in the grocery store. The do not a chain hardware stores.
Chain hardware stores do not carry pet items. Perhaps a local one does, but not Home Depot.
Period.
Don’t out your put in your car if you’re doing errands.
My child knows how to treat dogs because she’s around them. It does not change the statistical danger of an unprovoked bite. I do not allow my child near the dogs of people who can’t read signs on the door. If they can’t read a sign, they cannot be trusted to take care of an animal.
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Irishmom2
Guest
Unless it is an actual service dog, I never understand why people feel the need to bring dogs everywhere.
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