Pew poll says half of Catholics think that abortion should be legal

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The goal is to bring so much love to this world that no woman ever feels afraid to have a child.
 
SuperLuigi said:
In that case should we make slavery legal?
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Some have argued that it already is legal. For example, prisoners are required to work at slave wages and their confinement is a form of enslavement. In time of war different countries have set up concentration camps for their citizens on racial or religious grounds. And some countries force young people to serve in an army or be imprisoned.
 
To be clear, I was talking about chattel slavery in the USA. You are quite correct that slavery does exist elsewhere and not even metaphorically. They do still sell people for labour.

I think the prison issue is somewhat different, but I had not considered that either.
 
I’ve known a few “Catholics” who were actually avidly pro-choice. It is incredible sad to see how much faithfulness to the Church’s teachings and morality among the faithful have dwindled over the past decades. The spirit of lukewarmness and egotism have plagued our society, and the faithful fall prey to it because of poor cathecesis and desire to gain human respect. We must pray for them everyday and make reparation every First Saturday.
 
It’s quite breathtaking how people can just waltz up to Communion and have that stance. Then again, it also happened in the days of slavery.

Be nice if we’d get the whole big picture just once.
 
JanSobieskiIII said:
Well if they don’t believe abortion is gravely immoral then they are committing heresy and are therefore excommunicated so they’re most likely not Catholic anymore.

Abortion and Excommunication - Catholic Ethics

"Those Catholics who promote abortion are automatically excommunicated for two reasons. First, they have fallen into the sin of heresy by believing that abortion is not always gravely immoral (canons 751 and 1364). Second, these Catholics are providing substantial assistance for women to obtain abortions by influencing public policy to make abortions legal, and to keep abortions legal, and to broaden access to abortion. Those who provide such substantial assistance commit a mortal sin and incur a sentence of automatic excommunication (canon 1398). "

"Any Catholic politician who casts a vote with the intention of legalizing abortion, or of protecting laws allowing abortion, or of widening access to abortion, commits a mortal sin. "
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I think we need to beware on a Catholic forum to not confuse people who may be here to learn the Catholic faith. Excommunicated Catholics are actually still Catholics in the eyes of the Church. One could say they are not practicing the fullness of the faith and certainly the excommunicated are not to receive the sacraments until reconciled. Nor are they to serve in parish roles. But to say they are not Catholic anymore is in itself not in line with what the Church teaches.
 
Thou shalt not murder.

In a relationship of two, when one always leaves the partnership in a body bag - devoid of any choice of their own, crushed into a pulp - that’s exactly what it is.

Murder. Separate DNA, seperate body, separate existence.

For all around Jesus feet in the fields of heaven, crawl those who were denied the right to live by the unrighteous that took that life from them.

I sincerely hope such people burn. Let alone get ‘excommunicated’. No wonder people in this word treat rules and laws like a joke.

When you are going to commit crimes, or advocate and give freedom/support to them and get little more than a ‘’aww naughty boy! You have to go in the naughty corner now; but you’re still part of the club don’t worry little jimmy!’ remark…well. I think that’s mostly a line in the sand for me sorry.
 
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Sy_Noe said:
One could say they are not practicing the fullness of the faith… But to say they are not Catholic anymore is in itself not in line with what the Church teaches.
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Yes, just like Adolf Hitler was a baptised and confirmed Catholic.
 
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I think statistics are manipulated. And skewed by the ignorance of the respondents. Someone may respond that they are a “practicing Catholic” even though they only go to Mass a few times a year, etc. There is a serious problem with metacognition in the world today. Relativism exacerbates this. “I want to believe I practice my faith, even though I don’t practice it by actually following the precepts of the Church.”
 
Such details are omitted or not accounted for when polls like these are reported but I shared a Pew poll that considered Mass attendance frequency among White Americans. And I also noted that not everyone who attends Mass weekly fully believes in Catholicism, they just attend because it’s part of a routine or because they hold libertarian politics in that same post.
I know many on CAF have said some parishes are failing to some extent in teaching what the Catholic Church teaches and in explaining why they are what they are. Parishes don’t necessarily bear full responsibility. Many parents don’t treat their Faith as something important and if they act that way, why would anyone assume the children will think Faith is important?
 
I’ve received a stupid private message from an obsessive user on this forum.

Get a real life & worry less about my private life.

My answer to your suggestion?

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Happy Valentine’s Day 💘
 
Sy_Noe said:
Excommunicated Catholics are actually still Catholics in the eyes of the Church. One could say they are not practicing the fullness of the faith and certainly the excommunicated are not to receive the sacraments until reconciled. Nor are they to serve in parish roles. But to say they are not Catholic anymore is in itself not in line with what the Church teaches.
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I think a distinction needs to be made. They are no longer members of the Church (as membership is properly defined) and are therefore outside the Church (when looking at the Church as a visible, identifiable society). However, the indestructible effect of Baptism means the person retains a bond with the Church and remains subject to her jurisdiction.

Mystici Corporis:
  1. Actually only those are to be included as members of the Church who have been baptized and profess the true faith, and who have not been so unfortunate as to separate themselves from the unity of the Body, or been excluded by legitimate authority for grave faults committed.
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Catechism of St. Pius X:
11 Q. Who are they who are outside the true Church?
A. Outside the true Church are: Infidels, Jews, heretics, apostates, schismatics, and the excommunicated.
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Ott’s Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma:
Although public apostates and heretics, schismatics and excommunicati vitandi are outside the legal organisation of the Church, still their relationship to the Church is essentially different from that of the unbaptised. As the baptismal character which effects incorporation in the Church is indestructible, the baptised person, in spite of his ceasing to be a member of the Church, cannot cut himself off so completely from the Church, that every bond with the Church is dissolved.
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The Church believes that once you are baptized that there is an indelible mark on the person’s soul making them forever a Catholic. As Father Grondin noted the Church takes that stance not only from a metaphysical standpoint but also from a membership standpoint.
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Ex-Catholics being counted as Catholics Non-Catholic Religions
This is a follow-up to a question I asked in the Ask An Apologist section this morning. Hello, How does the Catholic Church determine the number of Catholics in both the United States as well as the world? Does Omnium in mentem, which removes the process by which one can formally defect from the Church mean that the totals given in the Annuarium Statisticum Ecclesiae include those who are practicing a non-Catholic Christian faith, a non-Christian faith, or no faith at all? The Annuarium …
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… and the consensus among the Sodomites was the whole population against 10 righteous, and God showed what he thought of the poll. Then there is the matter of taking polls when a matter of doctrine has already been decided.
 
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I wish this study included info on how those polled identified themselves as Catholic… as in practicing vs. baptized vs. “raised Catholic” ect.
 
Curious11 said:
I actually think it should be legal. Because if it isn’t, maybe women could start getting abortions in illegal places at a greater danger to themselves. I think it should be discouraged, however, I don’t like abortion but banning it could be dangerous. I don’t know. Feel free to try to set me straight
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When abortion is legal it becomes socially acceptable. The more socially acceptable something is, the less people will be discouraged from doing it. Abortion is dangerous, deadly dangerous, it results in the death of an innocent child every time. The killing of innocent children should never be legal.

Do you really think that it would be OK to say, “Although it is not illegal to kill an innocent child, we would discourage you from doing this, although if you do do it you will not be prosecuted as you will not have broken the law”? Would it be OK to say this about any other human being (newborn babies, toddlers, old people etc)?
 
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Yeah that’s a pretty good argument. I’m more pro-life but not 100%
 
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