Pews in European churches

[Phemie]

This is true but only because postures after the Suscipiat were not specified. The populus surgit (people rise) appears in IGMR 146 and only the responses to be said appear after that. My guess is that this was intentionally left that way so the bishops could decide on postures after the Orate Fratres, whether to remain standing, or to kneel.

Not sure what you mean here. The universal GIRM says that you stand at the Orate Fratres and remain standing until the end of Mass except for the Consecration and they name the end of the Consecration as the point where the priest genuflects and you may choose to kneel or sit after Communion instead of standing.

Brendan64 is technically right, though, when he mentions that the entire EP can be construed as the Consecration. At least a case may be made for it in light of at least one rite which doesn’t have the words of Consecration, as we know them.

That may be true, but the GIRM is clear says that the priest genuflects AFTER the Consecration. So in the Latin Rite Consecration is considered to have occurred by the point at which the priest says “Mystery of Faith,” regardless of what happens in the Holy Qurbana of Addai and Mari.

 

[patmiron]

=victrolatim;13163406]I’ve discovered while perusing photos of various European churches that I very seldom see pews, rather things that remind me of rows of wooden dining room chairs. How does the congregation kneel? Or are the rubrics/attitudes different in Europe? I’ve always been curious about this.

Your question brings to mind severl points. THANKS for asking.

1. Piety is a PERSONAL response to OUR God. BUT It is ALSO a taught and learned response.

I have over the years heard differing reasons why those churches do not have kneelers.

If memory serves Saint Peters; the SEAT of the World Wide Roman-Catholic Church does have them???

I recall that then Cardinal Francis George; having just recently taken over the Archdiocese of Chicago; upon visiting one of his seminaries; took the Rector aside and told him to have his seminarians KNEEL in from of the Blessed Sacrament. The Rector pointed out that “we have no kneelers” and they would have to then kneel on the HARD floor… His Eminence replied; YES; I KNOW>

I can’t verify the accuracy of this account; but it DOES point out that in the VERY Presence of our God: Really, Truly and Substantially Present; WE ARE obligated to demonstrate the greatest possible form of Divine Worship; which is Kneeling!

Romans 14:11
For it is written: As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

Philippians 2:10
That in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those that are in heaven, on earth, and under the earth

To which I add my AMEN!

Pat Miron

 

[ProVobis]

Not sure what you mean here. The universal GIRM says that you stand at the Orate Fratres and remain standing until the end of Mass except for the Consecration and they name the end of the Consecration as the point where the priest genuflects and you may choose to kneel or sit after Communion instead of standing.

I guess then I don’t know what you mean by “universal GIRM.” Is there such a thing? I use as reference the 2002 IGMR (Institutio Generalis Missalis Romani) on which each country’s GIRM is supposedly based. I have noted before some of the differences between the US GIRM and Australia’s GIRM, for example, so I wouldn’t be surprised if some areas kneel while others stand some time after the IGMR “populus surgit” directive at the Orate Fratres.

Not trying to cloud the issue but doesn’t custom per Canon Law have some application here?

 

[Phemie]

I guess then I don’t know what you mean by “universal GIRM.” Is there such a thing? I use as reference the 2002 IGMR (Institutio Generalis Missalis Romani) on which each country’s GIRM is supposedly based. I have noted before some of the differences between the US GIRM and Australia’s GIRM, for example, so I wouldn’t be surprised if some areas kneel while others stand some time after the IGMR “populus surgit” directive at the Orate Fratres.

The Universal GIRM is the Latin one. Each Bishops Conference uses that one and adapts it with the Vatican’s approval. The only place the universal GIRM says to kneel is at Consecration and then says that if one can’t kneel one is to make a profound bow when the priest genuflects “after the Consecration.” Obviously, he genuflects after the Consecration of the bread and again after the Consecration of the wine.

 

[Brendan_64]

I recall that then Cardinal Francis George; having just recently taken over the Archdiocese of Chicago; upon visiting one of his seminaries; took the Rector aside and told him to have his seminarians KNEEL in from of the Blessed Sacrament. The Rector pointed out that “we have no kneelers” and they would have to then kneel on the HARD floor… His Eminence replied; YES; I KNOW>

I can’t verify the accuracy of this account; but it DOES point out that in the VERY Presence of our God: Really, Truly and Substantially Present; WE ARE obligated to demonstrate the greatest possible form of Divine Worship; which is Kneeling!

It is a bit sad to think that the lack of kneelers is seen as a reason for not kneeling in front of Our Lord, and for seminarians at that. If Christ could carry His Cross, beaten and bleeding all the way up the Via Della Rosa to be crucified, then the least we can do is kneel in His presence regardless of whether or not we have kneelers. Are we so soft that we dare not do anything that involves even a little physical discomfort?