Pharissess similiar to our leaders?

[trogiah]

emom:

When I am reading the Bible and come across Jesus talking to the Pharissess and Sagisses, I just can’t help compare them to our Pope, Biships and Priests. /

Regarding this part of your question, consider the following from the 23rd chapter of Matthew

1 Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to his disciples,
2 saying, “The scribes and the Pharisees have taken their seat on the chair of Moses. 3 Therefore, do and observe all things whatsoever they tell you, but do not follow their example. For they preach but they do not practice”
I think you are not wrong to, in some respects, compare the religious leaders of Jesus’s time with our religious leaders today. There are some who do not do there jobs very well, who do not really follow God’s commands as they should - but does that mean somehow that we should leave the Catholic Church, I would say not.

The passage from Scripture seems to indicate that God intends us to respect religious leaders even when there leadership is flawed.

Good luck and God’s peace

-Jim

 

[Ferdinand_Mary]

Thread moved from Sacred Scriptures to Apologetics forum.

 

[Church_Militant]

emom:

I didn’t mean to offend anyone. I have to compile questions fast because I do have a 4 and 6 year old that I get distracted and my thoughts aren’t really clear. Alot of my questions will probably be in a form of a question that my protestant friends ask me. With I cannot explain, I have been raised in the faith, but no one explained why. They just explained to do it because we have to out of our love to Jesus. When I went to our Priest about similiar question about this, he just told me to have faith and go to Mass.

Hi Emom!
Sounds like you need something to fill in all those blanks in your knowlege of the faith, especially since your Evangelical friends are attacking your faith. I’m glad you came here to talk to us because we can sure be of help.

First, you speak of a lack of time to attend parish classes with little ones…let’s get that fixed right away. The Catholic Home Study Service offers FREE Catholic courses through the mail and that you can send in your answers from Online. They are VERY good. I know because I have completed them all and begged for more. There are seven listed courses and at least a couple more for those who complete all these seven. You will not be disapointed at all and can do them at your own pace. They are meant for folks like us, and are financed by the Knights of Columbus. I personally recommend “We Believe…” as a starting off place, but they are all good.

The Mary Foundation offers FREE Catholic CDs and cassette tapes that will fill in some of the gaps as well. I use their Mary Foundation Rosary to pray it in my car whenever I have a drive of 20 minutes or so. It also has the Divine Mercy Chaplet on it which I pray on drives of 10 minutes or so. Their CDs are GREAT!

Most of your other questions can easily be answered by simply wandering through the CA ma(name removed by moderator)age Library and looking up the topic in question, or by using that page’s search engine.

One piece of advice: Most Evangelicals are trained to “witness” to others, and some target Catholics because they have been told by books, tapes, websites, and from their pulpits, that we are not Christians. This is bunkum, (as you’ll very quickly see once you get into the study of the Catholic faith) and you need to view any comments on Catholicism from them with some skepticism to say the very least. Have a look at my testimony and see what I went through to come home to the faith.

Please feel free to PM me with anything that I can help with, and know that you are in my prayers.
Pax tecum,

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

emom,

You probably think it’s wrong to pray the rosary because you haven’t been taught the mysteries behind the rosary which we are supposed to meditate on while saying it. Please visit scripturecatholic.com and order the book Catholicism & Fundamentalism by Karl Keating and Rome Sweet Home by Dr. Scott Hahn (professor of theology at Franciscan University and former Presbyterian anti-Catholic minister). Also tune in to releventradio.com/, ewtn.com/, avemariaradio.net/. I also recommend Fr Lukefahr’s Catholic Home Study Service. Since you are having problems dealing with Mary, Mother of God (Christ was fully human and fully God!), please get the book “Christ’s Mother and Ours”. The attack about the repetitive prayer is a self defeating one protestants use. Our Savior instructed us to say “Our Father who art in Heaven…”. Please, get a few books. Also, none of your questions are stupid. It means that God is working in you, trying you, and encouraging you to live and learn your Faith in a secular world with all kinds of wolves in sheep’s clothes. All of us have had doubts at one time or another, and that’s just because we’re human. Luckily God gave us One Church and not 30,000 (and rising) protestant denominations to choose from. I’d also recommend picking up a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church from your local bookstore.

Another thing that I would check out would the the Mary Foundation where you can get free audio CDs with lectures on the Catholic Faith.

One thing that you need to understand is that the protestants definition of “worship” is very different from the Catholics. Our definition of worship is accepting Christ into us in the Eucharist. Christ really is present there. “This IS my body…” and “This IS my blood…” And when Jesus told his followers they must eat his flesh and drink his blood, many Jews left Him (similar to many “evangelicals” today). The Savior wouldn’t have tricked people into thinking it was only symbollically His Body and Blood. The pope is the literal successor of Saint Peter and the head of our church on Earth. When Jesus asked the people who they thought He was, it was only Saint Peter responded and said “You are the Son of the Living God.” Jesus told Peter three times, “feed my sheep,” “feed my sheep,” “feed my sheep,”.

Hope this helps.

God bless,

 

[AquinasXVI]

The angels in heaven repeat their prayers perpetually (Holy, Holy, Holy Lord!!!) We’re just joining in. As for “Hail Mary,” we are repeating what the Angel said, if our brothers can quote St. Paul all day, we should have the right to quote St. Gabriel all day too.

Let us all be glad that the rebuking of the Phariesees and the Saducees are in the gospels, for they are a clear reminder to our clergy not to be like that.

Also, it would be unfair to Nicodemus who was part of the Sanhedrin whom loved the Lord to say they were all corrupt. It would be further unfair to compare the malicious members of these Jewish leaders to the entirety of the Catholic Heirarchy of 2000 years. Let’s keep the ratios in mind when making these comparisons.

Regarding the cult thing. Well, it’s actually called Catholic Culture–the one that Christ exhorts us to build.

Gracias.

in XT.

 

[SueKrum]

Libero:

Sometimes I do feel like mass can be a bit cult - like when everyone is chanting the Nicene Creed…

Do you feel cult like when you say the pledge of alegence in school or where ever?

 

[estesbob]

emom:

When I am reading the Bible and come across Jesus talking to the Pharissess and Sagisses, I just can’t help compare them to our Pope, Biships and Priests. Our Catholic religion is always stressing saying the rosary. But didn’t Jesus rebuke us repeating the same prayers like the pagan religions?

I don’t know why I still keep on feeling that the rosary is wrong.

Also, how do I respond to Christians who believe that our prayer to marry is worship to her? I tell them it is not. But they keep on saying what do you mean? “Hail Mary?” That word there is worship.

What does it mean for us to say “mother of God” I know that it doesn’t mean that Mary created God. But she was an earthly mother?

HMMM??? It si hypocritical for Church leaders to promote the teachings of the Church???

 

[Libero]

Do you feel cult like when you say the pledge of alegence in school or where ever?

Nope, I don’t have to, I always did find the pledge of alegence a bit weird though…

 

[rwoehmke]

bluezone7:

Meditate on the mysteries during the Rosary do not focus on the words so much. Imagine as if you were right there at that moment in human history, and you will see the Rosary is all about JESUS, not Mary. The reason other Christians claim we worship Mary and other saints is because other Christians refer to worship as prayers, singing, etc. Catholics do not see this as worship … worship is adoration. Mary is the mother of Jesus. Jesus is God the Son according to true Christians. Then rationally Mary is the mother of God.

I have long pondered on how worship differs from reverence and prayers to Saints. I have concluded that it is almost impossible for someone to observe and be able to tell which a person is doing. Maybe in praying aloud one could discern by what is being said, but lacking that the difference is totally interior. It depends in large part on what ones intention is, whether to worship or reverence and honor or perhaps to petition. Gestures and posture, kneeling, bowing, etc. cannot convey the fact of the matter. It is not surprising then that our seperated brethren can’t “see” a difference, but we know what we are doing.

 

[reen12]

The Romans had a saying, through Catullus:

Ave, atque vale. “Hail, and farewell.”

Ave = “hail” [we would say: “Greetings”!]

It’s a greeting [a salute] to Mary…not worship.

reen12

 

[Sherlock]

emom:

When I am reading the Bible and come across Jesus talking to the Pharissess and Sagisses, I just can’t help compare them to our Pope, Biships and Priests. ?

Wow, that’s hostile. Just curious: what about Pope Benedict, in particular, makes you think he is a Pharisee?

emom:

Our Catholic religion is always stressing saying the rosary. But didn’t Jesus rebuke us repeating the same prayers like the pagan religions??

Funny, I went to Catholic schools and I never thought that the rosary was “stressed”. I have since come to find it to be a powerful prayer (how could meditating on important events in Jesus’s life not be?), and certainly it is encouraged, but “always stressing” is a bit much—Catholicism stresses many things, such as the Eucharist, the importance of confession, of spiritual growth…I just don’t see what you’re seeing. As for repeated prayers: this is a pretty basic item here—it’s vain, repeated prayers (the pagans thought that they had to say the right name of the god, or say it the right number of times, in order to be heard) that is the problem. You will see repeated prayers in Scripture, and if you say the Our Father more than once, you have repeated yourself—so why would Jesus give us a prayer, if repeating it would be a bad thing to do?

emom:

I don’t know why I still keep on feeling that the rosary is wrong.

Are you hanging around people who think that it is? Why is meditating on the events of Jesus’s life wrong?

emom:

Also, how do I respond to Christians who believe that our prayer to marry is worship to her? I tell them it is not. But they keep on saying what do you mean? “Hail Mary?” That word there is worship.

The term for the worship due God and God alone is “latria”—we do not even use the same term for the saints (“dulia”) or for Mary (“hyper-dulia”). If you’re wondering why the Latin matters, it’s because other languages change with time. For instance, people used to address judges as “Your Worship”, and Christian people have knelt before their kings and queens. In no case did anyone think that the judge was God, or think that the kings or queens were. As for asking for Mary’s prayers: why not? Don’t you ask others to pray for you if you need prayer? Are you aware of the high position (and intercessory role) of the Queen Mother in the Davidic Kingdom? And “Ave”–“Hail”—means “hail”–it’s a greeting, fer Pete’s sake. Tell me what part of that is, as you claim, “worship”.

emom:

What does it mean for us to say “mother of God” I know that it doesn’t mean that Mary created God. But she was an earthly mother?

Mary gave birth to the person Jesus. Jesus had a divine nature and a human nature, but mothers don’t give birth to natures, they give birth to persons—whole persons, not parts of persons. So, although Mary is not the creator of God (a ridiculous impossibility), she is nonethless the Mother of God in the sense that she gave birth to Jesus, who was fully God and fully man.

 

[reen12]

quote: Sherlock

…the pagans thought that they had to say the right name of the god, or say it the right number of times, in order to be heard…

I didn’t know that, Sherlock. Can you tell me more about
this?

Thanks,

reen12

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

emom:

When I am reading the Bible and come across Jesus talking to the Pharissess and Sagisses, I just can’t help compare them to our Pope, Biships and Priests. Our Catholic religion is always stressing saying the rosary. But didn’t Jesus rebuke us repeating the same prayers like the pagan religions?

I don’t know why I still keep on feeling that the rosary is wrong.

Also, how do I respond to Christians who believe that our prayer to marry is worship to her? I tell them it is not. But they keep on saying what do you mean? “Hail Mary?” That word there is worship.

What does it mean for us to say “mother of God” I know that it doesn’t mean that Mary created God. But she was an earthly mother?

I think any form of religious life can degenerate into Pharisaism - Catholicism is not immune from this. Equally, it is not unique in being able to be corruopted like this.​

If the rosary bothers you - don’t worry about it. It is not the rosary, or Mary, that matters - it’s Christ. Since it is undoubtedly the will of Mary - if she is a Christian at all - that we should Love her Son above all, we are “do[ing] what He tells us” by obeying Him, and glorifying Him. That is what the rosary is for - glorifying Christ. And there are countless of glorifying Him. We will honour Mary, by glorifying Him. The rosary is a means to that, to help us love and glorify God: if it doesn’t help you - find another way to love God that does help you. What could Mary want more, than that we should love God ? ##

 

[estesbob]

One of the reason we pray the Rosary is Mary asked us to-very specifically at Fatima. As Catholics we dont have to be shackled by the restrictions of “Sola Scriptura”. There is no reason for us to try and justify everyhting we do or beleive by finding a relevant scripture quote. We have two thousands years of teachings, traditions and even visits by the Blessed Mother to rely on.