Pharmacists? Other healthcare workers?

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shelby2014

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How do you reconcile the Catholic Church’s view on contraceptives with your job?

I ask because I used to be a pharmacy technician before I became Catholic - and it didn’t bother me then. But we gave out a LOT of birth control, not to mention Plan B. And now there is a new drug.

What I am wondering is, can I ever have this job again, now that I am Catholic? How do you get around it?

Other healthcare professionals - I assume you run into similar issues, but I am wondering how the pharmacists do it.
 
Luigi_Daniele said:
I don’t dispense them 🙂 Problem solved;)
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Really? 🙂 🙂

But HOW?

I worked with a Catholic once, and I think he dispensed them. But in the pharmacy we worked in, if there was only one pharmacist, and he refused to dispense birth control, then there would be this huge backup and stuff.

Did you allow others to dispense them? If a customer was being rung up, did you do the counseling on side effects? I am just so curious because, frankly, being a pharmacy tech was the last time I actually enjoyed working. But techs do a lot more of the ringing up and stuff.

I guess, if a prescription for birth control comes in, how much interaction do you allow yourself to have with it before crossing a moral line?
 
shelby2014 said:
Really? 🙂 🙂

But HOW?

I worked with a Catholic once, and I think he dispensed them. But in the pharmacy we worked in, if there was only one pharmacist, and he refused to dispense birth control, then there would be this huge backup and stuff.

Did you allow others to dispense them? If a customer was being rung up, did you do the counseling on side effects? I am just so curious because, frankly, being a pharmacy tech was the last time I actually enjoyed working. But techs do a lot more of the ringing up and stuff.

I guess, if a prescription for birth control comes in, how much interaction do you allow yourself to have with it before crossing a moral line?
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I don’t stock them at all. The docs have figured that out by now, so I almost never see a script.😉 If you google Pharmacits for Life International, you will probably be able to find a pharmacy near you that refuses to dispense them, too.
 
You own your own pharmacy?

Are there any pharmacists who have to work for corporate pharmacies or in states where it is “required by law” to dispense certain items or recommend a pharmacy that will? (I think our state requires us to send people to a pharmacy that will dispense Plan B if we won’t)
 
Google Pharmacists for Life International 😉

Here’s the link pfli.org/

Might be able to find a prolife pharmacy near you. 🙂
 
That is very narrow minded to assume the worst of people getting birth control. It is legitimately prescribed for medical conditions as well as for birth control.
 
There are a few points to consider in this situation.
  1. Does your State/Country have a conscience clause that will allow the health care professional the right to refuse to participate or dole out BC based on their religious beleifs?
From my research most places do. So, its illegal to force a health care professional to give out the pill or assist in say abortion or euthanasia or sterilisation procedures if they are morally/religiously against them.
  1. You are a professional. Its not your place to judge. It is a patient’s right under law to get said drugs/procedures, whether we like it or not. Therefore, its important to declare up front to your manager or the patient if there are any problems you have morally with part of your job.
I was once in a situation where a woman was going to have a second trimester abortion and the Gynae ward was full so she put on our ward pre-op. The nurse caring for her was going to have to get her ready for her abortion, take her to the abortion ward, and then bring her back after the abortion and provide post op cares. I was allocated this patient.

I made it VERY clear to my manager that this was not going to happen. Period. I also informed the manager that I felt I would not be able to tolerate being in teh same room as this woman and so best to put me at the other end of the ward. That one I lost on. However - as a beautiful “God works in mysterious ways” story, three of the other women in that six bedded room were miscarrying! The woman in the bed next to the abortion woman was going through her seventh miscarriage. The two got to talking as female patients do, and next thing you know the abortion was called off and the social worker was called up to help arrange an adoption.

Its a little more tricky to be upfront with a patient if you are against what they are doing or getting. I find it best to be honest without being tactless. So, I say to a patient who asks for advice on the MAP “I’m not really comfortable giving advice on that matter, I feel as if I could provide information that could be wrong for you… however, have you thought about all your options?” or “Oh, I dont’ really know too much about that sorry, heck, I wouldnt’ even know where to find out that info”. A patient seeking such a thing will easily find someone else to ask who might dole out the info.
  1. Whether there are conscience clauses or not, long and short of it, don’t take a job where you are morally adverse to part of the job. For example, I love public health nursing. I did a student placement with the public health team. Then I found out a big part of the job was going into schools and doling out the MAP to girls as young as 12 without parental consent and without reporting it to authorrities of under aged sex (law protect’s those girls’ privacy, we can only report if we think its child abuse, and two stupid kids playing around isn’t considered abuse), Also, part of the job was organising abortions for these kids, and taking them out of school, driving them to the clinic. Thankfully I only over heard conversations about this and didn’t have to be involved. Also a lot of the job involves sex ed.
All of these things I hate with a vengance, and it made me incredibly sad becasue I love the rest of the job - vaccination programmes, helping kids who are impoverished, organsing health services in the community.

Its also the same with practice nursing - a lot of contraception and aboriton organisation, and the same with nursing in the army. Both jobs I wanted.

However, those actions are part of the job description. So it would be both unprofessional and morally wrong for me to take a job knowing those things are part of the job and then say to the boss “Oh, and BTW, I think abortion is murder so I wont be doing that, oh, and contraception is gravely disordered”.

All those public health nurses I was with on that job were pro-abortion. One of them told me up front “You have to be to do this job”. D:

I mean, you wouldn’t take a job at an abortion clinic if you didn’t believe in abortion. Its the same thing. You have a right to refuse to pariticpate in an abortion - but not if you’re supposed to be operating under the title of “staff nurse, Sunnyside abortion clinic”, or whatever.
 
I can’t answer for the birth control, as I am not a pharmacist.

However…as to end of life issues…

I’ve run across times where we will have to end life support: i.e. respect the patient’s wishes, remove the breathing tube, turn off the ventilator, and let the person die with (IMHO) dignity.

I do not have a problem with this at all. If the family wants this, if the living will states this, and I have a doctor’s order to extubate and d/c the vent…I will do it.

There are respiratory therapists who could not do this…and they have the right to refuse. I’ve actually had a therapist ask me to extubate a patient, b/c they could not.
I understand where they are coming from.

Then, there’s the converse argument. I’ve treated a patient who, for all intents and purposes, was brain dead, and the ethics committee was actually convened b/c the family wanted everything done regardless (i.e. a full code).
At the time, the hospital was Catholic, part of Catholic Health East. I, personally, was VERY distressed working with this brain dead patient with NO quality of life…but…this was my job. This was the family’s wish…so, no matter what I thought, I had to do my job, and I did it to the best of my ability.

One time I was assisting a transfer of a patient (who was vent dependent) from our long term acute care hospital to the hospice floor…it was in the same building, different floor.

Now…mind-hospice means the the patient would have comfort measures only…after about 3 days, the vent would be turned off, and the patient would be treated for pain only.

Well, don’t you know…on the way up to hospice, she’s telling me (we get pretty adept at reading lips after a bit) while I am bagging her, that she doesn’t want the vent turned off, and we aren’t going to turn the vent off, are we?

Well. So, I am telling the nurse who is transferring the patient…we cannot in all conscience, transfer her. She wants to stay on the vent…so, me and the other RT assisting in the transfer are VERY disturbed about this and we take her BACK to the LTACH…and make sure this is what she really wants.

Seemed that the family member was wanting the person to go to hospice, but the PERSON THEMSELVES was telling us they wanted something different (and yes, she was lucid). SO…back to the LTACH we went.

Turned out the person was talked into going to hospice anyhow. I, witnessing what I did that night…I would have had a LOT of trouble making that transfer. I later heard that the person actually was able to live without the vent for a bit b/f she died. I hope her passing was pleasant…well, considering…
 
I do not prescribe them. As a healthcare provider I feel it is my duty to educate patients and let them make informed choices so I do counsel patients on ALL contraception options including abstinence and NFP including all the risks, benefits as side effects. But I do not prescribe artificial contraception, not even for medical conditions. I do see the benefit in some conditions but I cannot prescribe them in good conscience knowing that I could be causing an abortion (BCP do not ALWAYS prevent ovulation and can prevent the implantation of a fertilized egg causing the loss of that life). Especially with all the other treatments available now for women’s health issues with all the research that the Pope Paul IV Institute does. As a medical profession I do feel you cannot withhold a treatment from a patient especially if it is the standard of care (this would be like failing to tell a cancer patient there is a life saving treatment called chemo just because you don’t prescribe it), so I do tell patients where they can go to get artificial contraception if that is what they choose to do after be fully educated on it and all the alternatives.

It is not easy to work in the medical community with these views which tend to differ greatly from the majority, but living a Christian life is not meant to be easy. Remember that Jesus suffered and died for us and worry more about what HE thinks than what others think. Just because other “catholics” do it does not make it right. And to be honest after getting over the initial shock that I don’t prescribe birth control most of my colleagues have been respectful of my beliefs and I think some of the Catholic ones even admire my adherence to Christ’s teachings.

I will keep you in my prayers as I know how difficult it can be to discuss all this with potential employers fearing you could lose a job over it. There are other medical professionals out there with the same beliefs for support if you need it.
 
For a few months now I’ve been working for CVS/Pharmacy here in the United States and have become troubled by having to sell birth control to customers. We also sell PlanB and another emergency contraceptive though that’s done at the pharmacy and I work in the front store. Recently I’ve been debating whether or not I should quit my job over this and currently am not entirely sure what I should do.
 
You can find out if another co-worker can ring up the item for you and sell it for you, or I would just find another job elsewhere. There are plenty of jobs out there that don’t require you to sell things you find objectionable, and probably with better perks.
 
My mum found this very difficult especially with RU486 (the morning after pill) because she was the only pharmacist on duty usually but it wasn’t her pharmacy. What could she do but lose her job or simply sell the products of the store? The problem I believe is legislation. We have to present this issue to the people who can do something about it. Write to your local member of Parliament/Government and ask them to review their pharmaceutical laws. Make a change for the better for everyone. Also, write to our doctors and ask them to review their practises but also to find out what pressures they experience as medical professionals.
 
Mifepristone is RU846 or abortion pill.

The morning after pill is the progestin levonorgestrel, or estrogen and progestin.
 
I have been a registered nurse for many years and recently returned to school to become a nurse practitioner. Soon I will rotate through women’s health and the issue of prescribing birth control and counseling people on ‘safe sex’ has been weighing heavily on my mind. I forsee being in this situation during my OB/GYN rotation in school. So far, I have danced around it in pharmacology case studies offering ‘NFP’ advice instead of choosing a BCP. But the real patients are coming and I am still trying to figure out how to deal with morally objectionable issues.

Being not well-schooled in ethics, I have been trying to come up with other situations that that place the worker in a morally objectionable situation, but different than birth control.
  1. A divorced male patient comes in requesting a prescription for Viagra. As a health care provider, it is not my place to judge the morality of his situation then prescribe. Not sure how to handle this one.
  2. A realtor is showing houses to an unmarried couple. Is the realtor participating in evil by assisting this couple with purchase of their home?
  3. What about that store clerk who sells condoms?
 
Sojourner3 said:
I have been a registered nurse for many years and recently returned to school to become a nurse practitioner. Soon I will rotate through women’s health and the issue of prescribing birth control and counseling people on ‘safe sex’ has been weighing heavily on my mind. I forsee being in this situation during my OB/GYN rotation in school. So far, I have danced around it in pharmacology case studies offering ‘NFP’ advice instead of choosing a BCP. But the real patients are coming and I am still trying to figure out how to deal with morally objectionable issues.
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But you, as a nurse, will have a teaching opportunity. You as a nurse know the harmful side effects of artificial birth control, and can educate your patients about the ADEs of ABCs and teach them about NFP and open up that world for them. Some people will listen, but unfortunately, some will not. So then I guess you will have to decide for yourself what to do with those patients who decide they want ABCs after all. My mother belongs to a big practice. One of the doctors is Catholic and will only prescribe ABCs for medical reasons. But the other doctors in the practice are non-catholic and patients can get ABCs from them instead.

As a patient, I would not want to hear about my doctor’s or nurse’s moral objections to anything I ask about. I couldn’t care less what they think is “right” or “wrong”. I even had a Jewish doctor tell my mom that eating pork of any kind was bad for her and should be completely eliminated from her diet. And yes, that’s only pork, but opinions are the same about everything that is of certain value to a patient, isn’t it? 🙂 However, I would very much appreciate hearing about the objections my doctors or nurses have based on medicine. I see nothing wrong with telling a patient that you feel so strongly that ABCs are harmful to women, and therefore will not be prescribing them – and then refer her to someone else for the ABCs she has to have. But you have done your job by giving her the facts and healthier alternatives. You can’t make people not take ABCs but you can influence their drive to do so by providing them with unbiased facts.

I don’t have to tell you, but the older we get, the more detrimental to our health ABCs are. And women need to know that. Couple that with smoking, and that’s a nice recipe for disaster. They really shouldn’t be taking them unless they have to, like in order to treat a medical condition that they cannot get relief from any other way.

However, I would not take medical advice from a pharmacist or a pharmacy tech. To me, my interactions with my own doctor or nurse are none of their business and I don’t tolerate any interference at all. I make sure whatever I need can be obtained by my pharmacy or I don’t patronize that pharmacy. But some people will listen to their pharmacist. It’s really up to the patient. For me, the big double sided sheet of information stapled to the prescription is sufficient and if I have any questions about the medication, I’ll call the pharmacy and ask. I couldn’t care less about his/her personal opinion.
Sojourner3 said:
Being not well-schooled in ethics, I have been trying to come up with other situations that that place the worker in a morally objectionable situation, but different than birth control.
  1. A divorced male patient comes in requesting a prescription for Viagra. As a health care provider, it is not my place to judge the morality of his situation then prescribe. Not sure how to handle this one.
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I don’t know either. Will you be practicing alone, or will you be part of a bigger group? If you’re part of a bigger group, refer him to someone else in your practice. If not, you’ll probably lose that patient if you can’t come up with sound medical reasons not to prescribe it. But that’s MOHO. And besides, it’s not up to us to judge what is going on in our patients’ lives. For all we know, they could be trying to reconcile with their spouse.
Sojourner3 said:
  1. A realtor is showing houses to an unmarried couple. Is the realtor participating in evil by assisting this couple with purchase of their home?
  2. What about that store clerk who sells condoms?
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Right. I see what you’re saying. I think that one will live their lives in a lot of conflict if they worry over someone else’s business every time they act to do a job. To me this is the same as the “Starbucks supports PP” thread or the “Walmart supports PP” thread. If you try to boycott everything that has any kind of indirect or direct support of something one opposes, you’ll be living in a bubble…but the choice is yours. You’re the only one who can make those decisions for yourself.
 
Interesting you describe RU846 the “abortion pill” when the morning after and contraceptive pills are both known abortifacients. But thanks for the correction anyway.
 
I would look for a job where I felt my beliefs were not asked to be compromised.

I interviewed yesterday for a job as the RN Manager of a women’s health clinic which will offer alternatives to ABC, teach about abstinence, give help with adoptions, offer free pregnancy testing and teach about alternatives to abortion. I really want this job. Please keep me in your prayers! Thanks!
 
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