Philip's Fast

[Mary_Poppins]

Can anyone tell me what the recommendations for St. Philip’s fast are? I’m struggling with letting go of Latin Rite practices that tell me definitively what I must do, and embracing Eastern Catholicism which is much more rigorous but less “defined” if you will. I’d like to be following this fast better than I am, but I don’t like all this danged personal responsibility when it comes to deciding “how much”! I miss my comforting “minimum requirements.”

Can someone help? It would be especially helpful if people could give me examples of what they do with their families during the fasting seasons- or, is there a list online somewhere that someone may know of which gives the dates and fasting recommendations for Eastern Catholics?

 

[Angel_Gabriel]

This is taken from wikipedia but I’ve seen several similar descriptions from various Orthodox and Eastern Catholic parish websites.

*"In the Eastern Orthodox Church, the fast traditionally entails fasting from red meat, poultry, meat products, eggs, dairy products, fish, oil, and wine. Fish, wine and oil are allowed on Saturdays and Sundays, and oil and wine are allowed on Tuesdays and Thursdays. The fasting rules permit fish, and/or wine and oil on certain feast days that occur during the course of the fast: Evangelist Matthew (November 16), Apostle Andrew (November 30), Great-martyr Barbara (December 4), St. Nicholas (December 6), St. Spiridon and St. Herman (December 12), St. Ignatius (December 20), etc. The Nativity Fast is not as severe as Great Lent or the Dormition Fast.

As is always the case with Orthodox fasting rules, persons who are ill, the very young or elderly, and nursing mothers are exempt from fasting. Each individual is expected to confer with their confessor regarding any exemptions from the fasting rules, but should never place themselves in physical danger.

There has been some ambiguity about the restriction of fish, whether it means the allowance of invertebrate fish or all fish. Often, even on days when fish is not allowed, shellfish may be consumed. More detailed guidelines vary by jurisdiction, but the rules strictly state that from the December 20 to December 24 (inclusively), no fish may be eaten.

The Eve of Nativity (December 24) is a strict fast day, called Paramony (lit. “preparation”), on which no solid food should be eaten until the first star is seen in the evening sky (or at the very least, until after the Vesperal Divine Liturgy that day). If Paramony falls on a Saturday or Sunday, the day is not observed as a strict fast, but a meal with wine and oil is allowed after the Divine Liturgy, which would be celebrated in the morning."*

 

[Cavaradossi]

Can anyone tell me what the recommendations for St. Philip’s fast are? I’m struggling with letting go of Latin Rite practices that tell me definitively what I must do, and embracing Eastern Catholicism which is much more rigorous but less “defined” if you will. I’d like to be following this fast better than I am, but I don’t like all this danged personal responsibility when it comes to deciding “how much”! I miss my comforting “minimum requirements.”

Can someone help? It would be especially helpful if people could give me examples of what they do with their families during the fasting seasons- or, is there a list online somewhere that someone may know of which gives the dates and fasting recommendations for Eastern Catholics?

The strictest rule would go as follows. On Monday, Wednesday and Friday, a strict fast is observed (that is, no meat, dairy, eggs, fish, oil or wine on these days, and also only eating one meal in the evening). On Tuesdays and Thursdays, oil and wine are permitted. On Saturday and Sunday, fish, oil, and wine are permitted. Between December 20th and December 25th, lenten fasting rules are followed. On any major feast, like the Entrance of the Theotokos, fish is permitted, even if it falls on a day of strict fasting. Should a minor feast fall on a day of strict fasting (like the feast of St. Ignatius of Antioch on December 20th, it elevates the day to an oil and wine day). There is no fasting from December 26th to January 4th. The Eve of Theophany on January 5th is strict fasting, unless it falls on a Saturday or Sunday, when oil and wine are permitted.

There exists, however, a less strict fasting custom observed by some where Wednesday and Friday are days of strict fasting, while on all other days, fish, oil, and wine are permitted. This rule, however, switches to a lenten fast from the 13th of December ending on the 25th of December. The period between the 26th of December and the 4th of January if similarly fast free, with the same rules for the Eve of Theophany on the 5th of January.

 

[Angel_Gabriel]

Can someone help? It would be especially helpful if people could give me examples of what they do with their families during the fasting seasons- or, is there a list online somewhere that someone may know of which gives the dates and fasting recommendations for Eastern Catholics?

my DH and I basically follow the strict form of the fast (essentially it’s a vegan diet with the exception of fish). But we do eat 3 meals and /or snacks everyday…it wouldn’t be healthy for either one of us to eat only once a day since we are both fairly active all day. and the purpose of it isn’t to cause you to be ill! I don’t’ make my kids follow it since they’re all pretty young. They eat what I make for dinner but for lunch and breakfast they have their usual eggs etc.

Also, we try to increase our prayer life and fast from sin as well (easier said than done I’m afraid! )

 

[theistgal]

I miss my comforting “minimum requirements.”

Our Eastern Catholic priest ALWAYS gives us the “minimum requirements” for every fast, so you wouldn’t be missing them too much!

 

[Symeon]

Mary, I know it sounds like a typical canned response, but if you are somewhat new to the more rigorous fast, talk to your eastern priest about it. He will be able to know you and your situation better than us strangers on the internet. The idea should be to start small, start with a plan you commit yourself to and will keep. Then, over the years work your way up to the more strict fast.

By the way, I discovered a really good talk on Ancient Faith that “aired” at the beginning of the Nativity Fast in 2009, by fr. deacon Matthew Steenberg (who has since been ordained to the priesthood and is now known as fr. Irenei). He discusses some gems from St. John Chrysostom on fasting, below.

ancientfaith.com/podcasts/holyfathers/st._john_chrysostom_on_the_charity_of_fasting

Fasting of the body is food for the soul.

Do not say to me, I fasted for so many days. I did not eat this or I did not eat that. I did not drink wine, that I endured want. Instead, show me if thou, from an angry man, has become instead gentle. If from a cruel man, thou hast become benevolent. If thou art filled with anger, why oppress thy flesh? If hatred and avarice are within thee, of what benefit is it that thou drinkest water instead of wine? Do not show forth a useless fast, for fasting alone does not ascend to heaven.

 

[Mary_Poppins]

Thank you so much- for all the helpful responses. I’m fairly new to fasting, since I’m Roman Rite canonically, but attend a Byzantine Catholic church. Unfortunately we do not currently have a priest, and those from the city that I could talk to do not seem to follow the fast themselves, as there is so much crossover between Roman Rite and Ukrainian Greek Rite where I am. It’s more than likely that I would be told that we don’t have to fast anymore since Vatican II.

I struggle with many sins, for sure- that it would be better to refrain from than fasting- still I wonder if fasting would help me to become more self-disciplined, and then hopefully strengthened to avoid the sin. Or does it go the other way round, first avoid sins and then you will be strengthened to do stricter fasts? If I’m honest, I just think fasting is fun, which is a sure sign I’m approaching it wrong- It’s just so neat that people pull together and share recipes and commiserate, it seems to really draw the community together just as much or even more than the feasts do- I find it inspiring! It’s kinda like I wanna be in the cool kid’s club!

 

[theistgal]

If I’m honest, I just think fasting is fun, which is a sure sign I’m approaching it wrong- It’s just so neat that people pull together and share recipes and commiserate, it seems to really draw the community together just as much or even more than the feasts do- I find it inspiring! It’s kinda like I wanna be in the cool kid’s club!

I know what you mean, and that’s not necessarily wrong.

If you’re the primary cook for your household, fasting times can be a challenge - and challenges can be invigorating! So in that sense, sure, it’s fun!

Also, most of the Eastern churches I’ve been involved with will have special events during fasting times - special services (Vespers, etc.) which aren’t part of the normal cycle. Again, fun in a way!

Not so much the cool kids’ club as the happy church family club!

 

[Symeon]

still I wonder if fasting would help me to become more self-disciplined, and then hopefully strengthened to avoid the sin

This is definitely the case. Fasting helps us overcome the passions. If we can get into the habit of voluntarily denying ourselves what is good through fasting, when temptations come (and they begin as thoughts) we can more readily recognize them for what they are and have the strength to resist.Needless to say none of this happens without the grace of God. To live a holy life we need a synergy of our own ascetic efforts and grace.

I’m honest, I just think fasting is fun. which is a sure sign I’m approaching it wrong

Don’t worry about that. A few weeks of bean burritos can cure you of that attitude.

Seriously though, start small and be consistent with a plan you can keep to, and, done with the right spirit (go read the transcript from my link above) fasting can help us grow closer to our Lord.

 

[Mary_Poppins]

Don’t worry about that. A few weeks of bean burritos can cure you of that attitude.

what a relief!

 

[5Loaves]

I think Symeon’s advise is very good.

Thank you so much- for all the helpful responses. I’m fairly new to fasting, since I’m Roman Rite canonically, but attend a Byzantine Catholic church. Unfortunately we do not currently have a priest, and those from the city that I could talk to do not seem to follow the fast themselves, as there is so much crossover between Roman Rite and Ukrainian Greek Rite where I am. It’s more than likely that I would be told that we don’t have to fast anymore since Vatican II.

You could also ask an Orthodox priest or deacon about this. The Greeks and Antiochians are less strict than Russians but all can give good teaching about the goals of fasting in the East.

BTW Symeon, Fr Irenei Steenberg is now Archimandrite Irenei He’s the main force behind the new Orthodox Institute here in SF. I was part of the “Liturgical English Study Group” he formed and led earlier this year. I can’t listen to the AFR podcast where I am at the moment so not sure if I’ve head it before. I found his teaching in the Study Group quite interesting.

 

[Symeon]

BTW Symeon, Fr Irenei Steenberg is now Archimandrite Irenei He’s the main force behind the new Orthodox Institute here in SF. I was part of the “Liturgical English Study Group” he formed and led earlier this year. I can’t listen to the AFR podcast where I am at the moment so not sure if I’ve head it before. I found his teaching in the Study Group quite interesting.

Thanks, yes, I forgot it’s now Archimandrite Irenei. I only recently discovered his “From The Holy Fathers” podcast, which is really excellent in my opinion. I’ve found it very helpful.

This will be getting off topic, but I had heard about that “Liturgical English Study Group,” though I wasn’t clear on its goals. Did you discuss specific translation issues (e.g “now and ever and forever” vs “unto ages of ages”) Did the group have anything to do with David James’s “A Psalter for Prayer”?

 

[Mary_Poppins]

sorry- I just wanted poke my head back in to say thanks for the great link, Symeon- very informative!

carry on-

 

[5Loaves]

This will be getting off topic, but I had heard about that “Liturgical English Study Group,” though I wasn’t clear on its goals. Did you discuss specific translation issues (e.g “now and ever and forever” vs “unto ages of ages”) Did the group have anything to do with David James’s “A Psalter for Prayer”?

I’ll PM you.

 

[Tradycja]

Thank you so much- for all the helpful responses. I’m fairly new to fasting, since I’m Roman Rite canonically, but attend a Byzantine Catholic church. Unfortunately we do not currently have a priest, and those from the city that I could talk to do not seem to follow the fast themselves, as there is so much crossover between Roman Rite and Ukrainian Greek Rite where I am. It’s more than likely that I would be told that we don’t have to fast anymore since Vatican II.

PM me with what Eparchy you are in, and depending on your response, I will send you what my priest said about “minimum requirements”.

And by the way if you have not officially changed rites yet…your minimum requirements are the requirements of the Latin rite. You are not bound to the rules of the UGCC if you are not canonically part of it.

 

[Mary_Poppins]

PM me with what Eparchy you are in, and depending on your response, I will send you what my priest said about “minimum requirements”.

And by the way if you have not officially changed rites yet…your minimum requirements are the requirements of the Latin rite. You are not bound to the rules of the UGCC if you are not canonically part of it.

Thank you- I appreciate that- I was really intending to be kinda tongue-in-cheek about the “minimum requirements” crack…

I haven’t officially changed rites yet… that’s the final frontier…no turning back… But if I’m attending there, receiving sacraments there, my children are receiving sacraments there… it doesn’t sit quite right with me to follow the Roman canons for some reason. It just seems…off. Confusing…also, I guess I’m using that as my safety net, right now, and I tend to think that God wants me to let go of such legal scruples, and just- pray and fast. It’s really confusing though!

thanks for the help!

 

[5Loaves]

Thank you- I appreciate that- I was really intending to be kinda tongue-in-cheek about the “minimum requirements” crack…

I haven’t officially changed rites yet… that’s the final frontier…no turning back… But if I’m attending there, receiving sacraments there, my children are receiving sacraments there… it doesn’t sit quite right with me to follow the Roman canons for some reason. It just seems…off. Confusing…also, I guess I’m using that as my safety net, right now, and I tend to think that God wants me to let go of such legal scruples, and just- pray and fast. It’s really confusing though!

thanks for the help!

Really your priest is in the best position to guide you on this. He knows you, your journey, your family, your Church…

 

[exarctly]

I actually have a similar concern. I know that we are encouraged to keep more of a traditional (though voluntary fast) - and I am Ruthenian by the way. And my Pastor writes in the bulletin that we should abstain from meat and dairy monday weds and friday.

But maybe it is also the coming from the Latin background, but it is difficult for me to not just know what the minimum I have to do is, so I can know how to at the least avoid disobeying the requirement. Of course, I should and sometimes do want to keep the fast in a more voluntary way, but sometimes I advise friends or family or want to help them at least keep the fast as required. So, basically, if anyone knows exactly what the minimum requirements for Ruthenians is this season I would appreciate knowing. You can PM or reply here. But it is difficult for me to hear one thing (that may be voluntary) and then struggle with guilt if I don’t keep it, even though I am not sure that it is being ‘suggested’ or ‘required.’

I think that the answer is that other than Christmas eve (where a strict fast is kept) really it is only Fridays that we are required to a simple (and not strict fast). So, it really isn’t any different than the rest of the year, save for the fact that we are encouraged to fast in other ways as well and to observe the traditional fast if we can in addition to the minimum of simple abstinence on Fridays and strict abstinence on the eve of Christmas.

 

[exarctly]

I think I found this from my Churches (Ruthenian) canon law, from 2007.

Canon 880 §2
§1. The special penitential seasons are:
1o. The Great Fast
2o. The Peter and Paul Fast
3o. The Dormition Fast [August 1-14]
4o. The Philip Fast [November 15-December 24]
§2. Strict abstinence is to be observed on the first day of the Great Fast and on Great Friday. Simple abstinence is to be observed on Wednesdays and Fridays of the Great Fast.
§3. Simple abstinence or an equivalent penance is to be observed on all Fridays throughout the year.

Now according to that, it seems to mark certain seasons as penitential, and we are always encouraged to do more (fast, confession, charity, prayer etc), but it seems to imply that the only days where wednesdays are required is during Great lent. And only strict fast on the first day of Lent and on Great Friday.

However, the calendar we receive every year with reminders and guidelines always seems to imply that we strict fast on the day of the beheading of John the Baptist, the day before the Baptism of Jesus, and on Christmas eve. I wonder if the calendar is just highly recommending these and they are not actually required by canon law? But then, why not just say that on the calendar? Yes, adjusting from Latin Rite is not always easy. But I kind of just want to know how to keep the minimum so that I can start (or encourage others) there and then add additional from that point.

 

[5Loaves]

I actually have a similar concern. I know that we are encouraged to keep more of a traditional (though voluntary fast) - and I am Ruthenian by the way. And my Pastor writes in the bulletin that we should abstain from meat and dairy monday weds and friday.

But maybe it is also the coming from the Latin background, but it is difficult for me to not just know what the minimum I have to do is, so I can know how to at the least avoid disobeying the requirement. Of course, I should and sometimes do want to keep the fast in a more voluntary way, but sometimes I advise friends or family or want to help them at least keep the fast as required. So, basically, if anyone knows exactly what the minimum requirements for Ruthenians is this season I would appreciate knowing. You can PM or reply here. But it is difficult for me to hear one thing (that may be voluntary) and then struggle with guilt if I don’t keep it, even though I am not sure that it is being ‘suggested’ or ‘required.’

I think that the answer is that other than Christmas eve (where a strict fast is kept) really it is only Fridays that we are required to a simple (and not strict fast). So, it really isn’t any different than the rest of the year, save for the fact that we are encouraged to fast in other ways as well and to observe the traditional fast if we can in addition to the minimum of simple abstinence on Fridays and strict abstinence on the eve of Christmas.

If one is* focused* on what not to eat, that is not fasting as understood in the Eastern/Orthodox Churches.

There is so much good writing out there on the place and purpose of fasting and feasting. Anything by Fr Alexander Schmemann, and Met. Kallistos Ware is a good resource. Or one of the many podcasts on Ancient Faith Radio on fasts such as this one. Or this with Fr Moses, who is a member of CAF EC Section. These are important resources but we are always told to fast only with the aid of our spiritual father.

Prayer is the heart of the fast.