Philosophical definition of Truth

  • Thread starter Thread starter Tradycja
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
So you are saying that subjective ideas don’t exist?
No. Obviously “subjective ideas” exist. When Leela intimates that “truth can only belong to sentences”, she is anthropomorphically extending the definition, and thereby limiting it, to requiring a nearby consciousness.

For me, since I know “objective truth” exists, I don’t have a problem communicating with most people. I don’t have to say a word to you. I can merely point out an object. You will instantly agree that it is, and is thereby true. We know this to be the case because, if I point out a mirage-as-water to you, you will instantly know it is non-true.

jd
 
When Leela intimates that “truth can only belong to sentences”, she is anthropomorphically extending the definition, and thereby limiting it, to requiring a nearby consciousness.
This is a mischaracterization of my position. Truth does not “belong to” sentences. Truth is something that applies to sentences. It isonly a sentence that can be said to be either true or false. It doesn’t make sense to say “that rock is true” any more than it would make sense to say “that sentence is igneous and weighs 20 pounds.” There is no anthropomorphication of sentences going on. Human beings are the ones calling the sentences true or false.
 
The traditional Aristotelian/Scholastic definition of truth is as follows:

Truth- the known conformity of what is in the mind and what is outside the mind (logical); the agreement of a being with the intellect (ontological)

One of my friends says that is wrong, the definition of truth is simpler…Truth=Reality.

Any comments?
Our human reality is only a part of it. Since we are a creation from the source of all truth, God. And the only one who can bring us to real truth is Christ since he put truth on in his human form, and thus bridged us toward it. Those who hear truth hear the words of Christ.

Pilate asked him, “So you are a king?” Jesus answered, “You say that I am a king. I was born for this, and I came into the world for this: to testify to the truth. Everyone who is committed to the truth listens to my voice.” - John 18:37
 
I am a moral realist as well.

I think food is a good analogy for morality. Some foods may be just as good for people as others, but we can all agree that poisin is bad for people.

That’s not exactly what a correspondence theory of truth claims about the meaning of the truth of a sentence. “The cat is good” corresponds to reality if the cat exists, if good exists, and the cat is good. …
Best,
Leela
Does Yellowness exist? Certain properties attach to things and have no independant existance. Does oldness exist? Does quickness exist? Goodness is a property that attaches to certain actions.

But despite not having an independant existence these properties can be used to describe reality. When they correctly describe reality they are true when they don’t they are false.

BTW on food - being good for you is one thing that may be objective. But the taste is relative. 🙂
 
Does Yellowness exist? Certain properties attach to things and have no independant existance. Does oldness exist? Does quickness exist? Goodness is a property that attaches to certain actions.

But despite not having an independant existence these properties can be used to describe reality. When they correctly describe reality they are true when they don’t they are false.
I agree with you. I just pointing out that what you are saying about Yellowness is not support of a correspondence theory of truth but a critique of such a theory. Yellowness is not an essence but a relation. It is property that some things have in common. Pragmatists think of everything in terms of relations rather than essences. Numbers are a good example of this sort of thinking.There is no essence of 12 any more than Yellowness is an essence. 12 is 4*3 , 11+1, 24/2, etc. None of these relationships between other numbers is any more “the essence of 12” than any other.
BTW on food - being good for you is one thing that may be objective. But the taste is relative. 🙂
Taste isn’t really any more “relative” than food being good for you. There are some tastes that we have wide agreement on and others that we don’t. Someone may say that they hate onions while another loves onions, but if you put onions on the same scale as eating ****, both people’s taste for onions look much more closely aligned. There are some flavors that are objectively bad.

Best,
Leela
 
Does ‘yellow’ exist? Perhaps not to a color blind person. Meaning, it is dependent on our human sense of sight to be seen as such. What color is it if a dog looked at it? If a cat looked at it? If say, a yellow bird looked at another yellow bird? All these make such ‘truth’ relative to who/what is viewing it, and as such, cannot be classed as truth.

I see ‘truth’ as not relative to any one or two elements, but as such for ‘all’!!! These things like ‘yellow’ may be ‘true’ for us humans with good eye’s, but they are not ‘the Truth’! As Leela said with ‘12’, here too it is relative to the process used to achieve it… like the senses used to see yellow. Can you hear yellow? Can you feel yellow? Can you taste yellow?

A circle has 360 degree’s… one has to look at the center from all those degree’s. A sphere has many more angles of observation, what does the center look like from all of them?

‘Truth’ should be that which is ‘true’ for ‘all’… from the 1 year-old to the 90 year-old… from the one with a college education, to one in first grade… it covers ‘all’. Otherwise, it becomes ‘relative’ to a certain class and exempt from other classes.

Look at the acorn… when planted and it sprouts, even when it has just 2 starter leaves, it is an oak tree… and in all it’s growth, there is no time that it is not an oak tree, even though it changes shape and character as it grows. To me, this is closer to ‘truth’ then what is called ‘true’ at-the-time-and-place-and-under-this-circumstance.

Truth, by definition, simply IS… and with not one exception.
This is where science and philosophy differ.
 
I do not think you should leave the church even if you disagree with some teachings. Always keep in mind that the church is here to help you come to God not to set up mental obstacle courses for you.

Consider what our Pope recently did with the SSPX bishops. I’ll quote wikipedia:

Certainly some scientists and philosophers have tried to change what the word truth means. But I think that is misguided. Truth should and usually does mean the same for both.

Your explanation of yellow doesn’t apply if we say something is yellow when it gives off light containing a certain number of angstroms. The object is still yellow regardless of some people being able to see it.

I think its true that some properties are relative to the person but not all properties. Nor are all topics that philosophy deals with relative. Philosophy deals with truth just as science does and indeed science is really a branch of philosophy.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top