Philosophical Question(s) on God

[natedagw824]

Hi there,

I hope I put this in the right forum

First let me say that I am a die-hard Catholic. With that said, I am taking an Introduction to Philosophy course at the University of Michigan and right now we are talking about the existence of God. We are looking at both sides of the argument: A few class sessions ago we studied the Design argument for God’s existence and now we are studying the moral argument for God’s existence.
Explanations of the arguments:

The Design Argument:
Basically, this argument states that all the intelligent design in the universe had to be designed by a designer; AKA the watch had to be made by a watch maker.

The Moral Argument:
This argument states that every human being has morals; where do our “morals” come from? Why do we all have a sense of “right” and “wrong?” Do our morals come from our upbringing or do they come from God?

In the next few class sessions we are going to study the Argument of Evil against God’s Existence. I’ll be back to let you know what that is about.

Now onto my questions:

In this class, the teacher is an athiest( Big shocker there huh?). He says he doesnt believe in God because God allows horrible things to happen to mankind. However, our teacher has brought up some interesting questions about God and His existence. My teacher’s insight has troubled me and I would like some feedback on these questions:

1. If God is a “perfect” God, why do we live in an imperfect world? Is the universe really perfect? Is nature really balanced, or is nature really fair to the animals or to us?
2. If God does have a plan for us and if all of our days are pre-determined, then how do we make a choice? Are our choices incorporated into God’s plan?
3. Evolution. Did we evolve from animals? If so, was evolution a part of God’s plan?
4. Dinosaurs. Why is it that these creatures are not mentioned in the Bible?
5. Eternity. My teacher brought this up: Will we really be happy in eternity? Will we ever get bored in Heaven?
6. God’s Wrath. God loves us more than we will ever know. God the Father sent His own Son here to die for us so that our sins could be forgiven. Why would a God who loves us so very much send us to Hell or to Purgatory?

Conclusion:

Now, I want to make one thing very VERY clear: I am NOT an athiest. These are simply questions that my professor has brought to the table for us, students, to think about. I am NOT trying to sway any of you in ur faith. Like I said in the beginning, I am a very devout Catholic.
Now, with that said, I would like your opinion on these questions. I, for one, would love to stand up amongst the athiests in my class and defend God!
Any feedback u provide will be used to defend God and His creation in my Philosophy class.

Thank you and God bless you,

Nathan

 

[Mirdath]

Fair warning, I am a former Catholic and now agnostic – but since you want answers from a religious perspective, I’ll endeavor to give those as best I can

1) If God is a “perfect” God, why do we live in an imperfect world? Is the universe really perfect? Is nature really balanced, or is nature really fair to the animals or to us?

This is actually the so-called ‘Problem of Evil’ you’re about to go over in class: if God is both all-powerful and all-loving, why does he let evil exist?

The Catholic answer is simple: God wants us to choose to love him. Adoration from those who cannot help but adore is not truly love. This ability to choose requires that evil exist – otherwise there is no choice.

2) If God does have a plan for us and if all of our days are pre-determined, then how do we make a choice? Are our choices incorporated into God’s plan?

I believe the general answer to this one is that while God is all-knowing and therefore knows how we’ll act, he does not force us into that action. Predestination is not a Catholic doctrine.

My take on omniscience vs. free will is that God knows all possible choices we can make and, should he have a divine plan for us, has accounted for all these posssibilities; he lets us choose which path along that plan we’ll take.

3) Evolution. Did we evolve from animals? If so, was evolution a part of God’s plan?

That’s the current accepted theory of how it happened, and if you believe God has a plan for everyone and the entire universe, it’d have to be so. Belief in evolution does not contradict Church teachings.

4) Dinosaurs. Why is it that these creatures are not mentioned in the Bible?

Because they died out millions of years before the authors of the Bible were born The days of Genesis are not necessarily literal 24-hour days. The biblical account of creation is not that different in content from the creation myths of many other primal religions – it is the theme that matters in early Genesis, not the story-trappings in which it is presented. Genesis was written for an audience that had no way to measure the age of rocks and fossils, or to analyze the evolution of species. A mythic story of how the world was created would be much easier for that audience to grasp.

5) Eternity. My teacher brought this up: Will we really be happy in eternity? Will we ever get bored in Heaven?

Eternity is outside sequential time. Where we here count one second from the next, someone existing in eternity has no sense of time passing. He or she simply is, all at once. No time, no boredom. Happiness? For those who make it to Paradise, at least.

6) God’s Wrath. God loves us more than we will ever know. God the Father sent His own Son here to die for us so that our sins could be forgiven. Why would a God who loves us so very much send us to Hell or to Purgatory?

While God judges people for their sins, it is their mortal sin – their choice to act in deliberate offense to God – which chooses their destination in the afterlife. God, then, damns no one: we damn ourselves, and it is through God’s mercy and grace by which we can avoid our deserved punishment.

Hope that helps you out. Good luck – debate is fun, and better for all concerned if it’s well informed

 

[newbie1234]

Hi there,

I hope I put this in the right forum

First let me say that I am a die-hard Catholic. With that said, I am taking an Introduction to Philosophy course at the University of Michigan and right now we are talking about the existence of God. We are looking at both sides of the argument: A few class sessions ago we studied the Design argument for God’s existence and now we are studying the moral argument for God’s existence.
Explanations of the arguments:

The Design Argument:
Basically, this argument states that all the intelligent design in the universe had to be designed by a designer; AKA the watch had to be made by a watch maker.

The Moral Argument:
This argument states that every human being has morals; where do our “morals” come from? Why do we all have a sense of “right” and “wrong?” Do our morals come from our upbringing or do they come from God?

In the next few class sessions we are going to study the Argument of Evil against God’s Existence. I’ll be back to let you know what that is about.

Now onto my questions:

In this class, the teacher is an athiest( Big shocker there huh?). He says he doesnt believe in God because God allows horrible things to happen to mankind. However, our teacher has brought up some interesting questions about God and His existence. My teacher’s insight has troubled me and I would like some feedback on these questions:

1. If God is a “perfect” God, why do we live in an imperfect world? Is the universe really perfect? Is nature really balanced, or is nature really fair to the animals or to us?
2. If God does have a plan for us and if all of our days are pre-determined, then how do we make a choice? Are our choices incorporated into God’s plan?
3. Evolution. Did we evolve from animals? If so, was evolution a part of God’s plan?
4. Dinosaurs. Why is it that these creatures are not mentioned in the Bible?
5. Eternity. My teacher brought this up: Will we really be happy in eternity? Will we ever get bored in Heaven?
6. God’s Wrath. God loves us more than we will ever know. God the Father sent His own Son here to die for us so that our sins could be forgiven. Why would a God who loves us so very much send us to Hell or to Purgatory?

Conclusion:

Now, I want to make one thing very VERY clear: I am NOT an athiest. These are simply questions that my professor has brought to the table for us, students, to think about. I am NOT trying to sway any of you in ur faith. Like I said in the beginning, I am a very devout Catholic.
Now, with that said, I would like your opinion on these questions. I, for one, would love to stand up amongst the athiests in my class and defend God!
Any feedback u provide will be used to defend God and His creation in my Philosophy class.

Thank you and God bless you,

Nathan

We live in an imperfect world because of sin.
God made it perfect in the garden of eden.
Man’s disobedience changed everything.
Read gen3 to see how everything changed after ADam sinned.
2. We have free will.
God already knows the outcome of our choices.
3 Bible believing Christians do not espouse evolution.
We believe in a literal six day creation and a young earth less than 10000 yrs old.
4 Dragons are mentioned in many chapters
behemoth mentioned in Job
5. I hope heaven will be fun.
But it’s got to be better than the eternal flames of hell where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
6. God loves us so much that He made it so easy to get to heaven. All we have to do is believe in his Son and repent. How hard is that?
Ask your atheist teacher this:An atheist claims there is no God. Does that mean he knows everything that exists in all the universe and God is nowhere to be found?
So as an atheist,he has all knowledge of everything that exists in all the universe. That is impressive.

 

[zachh]

The Design Argument:
Basically, this argument states that all the intelligent design in the universe had to be designed by a designer; AKA the watch had to be made by a watch maker.

The design argument shouldn’t be confused with the watch maker argument. Paley’s watch maker argument was classically refuted by David Hume in Dialogues Concerning Natural Religion. Basically, Hume was able to ascribe very non-desirable qualities to the God of the watch maker argument. His essay is hard to understand and I can’t find a good summary, so you might want to do a little research on that part.

Read this page carefully to understand the current view of the designer argument. It’s a little different from the watch maker argument, but it is different in such a way that Hume’s arguments don’t apply.

1. If God is a “perfect” God, why do we live in an imperfect world? Is the universe really perfect? Is nature really balanced, or is nature really fair to the animals or to us?

From the beginning of theology, it is been known that this world isn’t perfect and that it is a perversion of a perfect view. The entire story of man’s salvation is a story where man is corrupt from this perfect image and he must battle his corruption to achieve the lost perfection. The reason for the corruption will eventually be explained.

1. If God does have a plan for us and if all of our days are pre-determined, then how do we make a choice? Are our choices incorporated into God’s plan?

This is a hard concept for atheists to understand, so I’d just be brief about it. God’s omniscience is something that is an orthodox theological concept. Free will is as well. God’s knowledge of the future is based on the knowledge of what we will freely choose. Just because God knows that I will do my homework doesn’t mean that I didn’t have a choice in the matter. I could have just as easily not done my homework. Just because something will happen doesn’t mean that it couldn’t have happened.

1. Evolution. Did we evolve from animals? If so, was evolution a part of God’s plan?

The Catholic Church allows for us to decide on what we believe. Personally, evolution seems like the most tenable explanation. I still hold though that the consciousness which humanity has didn’t evolve but was given to us by God.

1. Dinosaurs. Why is it that these creatures are not mentioned in the Bible?

Dinosaurs aren’t really necessary to our salvation. The Bible isn’t a history book but a book about man’s fall, problems, and how we may be redeemed. Besides, if you were a Jew living in pre-messiah times (or for that matter someone living before the 1800’s), would you think much of a giant creature that lives millions of years before you? It’s the same thing with atoms: just because the Bible doesn’t mention them doesn’t mean that it forces one who believes in the Bible to disbelieve in atoms. Atoms aren’t essential to our salvation; moreover, atoms weren’t somewhat understood until very recently and now we don’t have a crystal clear understanding of them

The question is why should dinosaurs have been included with the Bible, not why weren’t they.

1. Eternity. My teacher brought this up: Will we really be happy in eternity? Will we ever get bored in Heaven?

Heaven is the joining of God in His kingdom. That hardly sounds boring or unhappy.

1. God’s Wrath. God loves us more than we will ever know. God the Father sent His own Son here to die for us so that our sins could be forgiven. Why would a God who loves us so very much send us to Hell or to Purgatory?

Philosophically, your professor may be satisfied with the following answer:

Free will is the ultimate sign of God’s love. Instead of forcing us to do something that we might not want to do, God gave us the opportunity to either reject him or accept him. In doing so, He gave us the ability to have an actual loving relationship with him. If we wouldn’t have been given the choice, then we would be forced to love God, and forced love isn’t real love at all.

From this free will comes a great responsibility for our actions. We can either accept God’s grace and choose to love him or we can reject His grace and choose to turn ourselves away from him. In that sense, God does not send anyone to anywhere that they didn’t want to go.

That is the answer that I gave while I was a Protestant, except for “accept God’s grace” was just “accept God.” I think that it is compatible with orthodox Catholic views, but don’t quote me on it.

Also, although I know where you’re coming from when you want to stand up and defend the faith, it’s very hard for someone even with a lot of experience to do it eloquently. I would simply research what your professor has said, quote a really good source, give a little explanation, and sit down. And always remember that in apologetics, always speak with love in your heart.

 

[Brian2944]

I’ll try my best…here goes:

#1. God wanted to make a MORAL universe. Could God have created a perfect universe?..of course, but then you would have robots with no character and no freedom to love. Only in a moral universe are characters able to emerge and only if given the option to not love is true love possible.

#2. God dwells outside of time. He does not think on a sequence of events like we do. He “sees” the day of your birth, every second of your life, and your death in the present…right now. So with that in mind, if you’re watching somebody doing something (like reading a book), does the fact that you see them doing it change their free will to do so?? God does not “see” past or future…only the now. No effect on free will.

#3. I have no clue…I believe in evolution being a part of God’s design…“a big bang requires a big banger!”. And PROVEN science will never contradict God, science is the the study of God’s art. We know the truth through the Church, now science must meet its standards.

#4. The bible is a spiritual book, not a science or history book. Dinosaurs have nothing to do with salvation, morality, or eternal life.

#5. No boredom. Once again we will be outside of time, and be in the prescence of Divine love, peace, joy, and happiness. He is pure happiness, He is much, much more than we could ever fathom.

#6. God sends no soul to hell. Put simply He gives us what we want. If we loved and served Him in this life, he allows us to live with Him in the next life. If we rejected Him in this life, he will not make us be with Him for eternity. And if God is the ONLY source for eternal happiness and love, than being away from Him will in turn be the opposite of happiness and love (The farther away you get from light, the darker it gets…hell)

Hope this helps, let me know if you need some more help.

God Bless

 

[Nita]

2) If God does have a plan for us and if all of our days are pre-determined, then how do we make a choice? Are our choices incorporated into God’s plan?

I believe the general answer to this one is that while God is all-knowing and therefore knows how we’ll act, he does not force us into that action. Predestination is not a Catholic doctrine.

)

Actually, the Catholic Church does teach predestination - but not Calvinistic predestination. There is very little on it in the Catechism.
#600 To God, all moments of time are present in their immediacy. When therefore he establishes his eternal plan of “predestination,” he includes in it each person’s free response to his grace. …
The index for a few more references under “predestination”.

For more info, go to www.newadvent.org/cathen/ and do a search on Predestination.

Nita

 

[zachh]

Also do a search for things like “reprobate”. That should lead you onto the trail of the teaching of the Catholic Church.

 

[Contarini]

Hi there,

I hope I put this in the right forum

First let me say that I am a die-hard Catholic. With that said, I am taking an Introduction to Philosophy course at the University of Michigan and right now we are talking about the existence of God. We are looking at both sides of the argument: A few class sessions ago we studied the Design argument for God’s existence and now we are studying the moral argument for God’s existence.

These are relatively modern arguments. Has your professor not talked about Anselm’s ontological argument or Aquinas’s “five ways”? If he hasn’t, then he isn’t doing his job. He’s cheating by giving you relatively flimsy modern arguments (though I think they have some weight) instead of the classic stuff.

Aquinas did much better–the two arguments he gives *against *God’s existence are the same ones most popular with atheists today (the existence of evil and the sufficiency of natural explanation). If you haven’t read Aquinas’s discussion of this, you should: it’s very brief and succinct (see especially article 3) and you can find it easily online.

In this class, the teacher is an athiest( Big shocker there huh?).

No, but not as universal as you might think. I knew an atheist grad student in philosophy at Duke who complained that it was hard to find a teaching job in the field without being a Christian (because most starting-level jobs in philosophy are
in Christian liberal arts colleges, or so he claimed). I think
he was exaggerating, but there has been a huge boom in Christian philosophy (particularly among evangelical Protestants–Catholics of course never stopped doing it!) in
the past few decades.

He says he doesnt believe in God because God allows horrible things to happen to mankind.

Well, that’s a reason that I respect. If I were an atheist, that would be my reason too. It’s certainly the main reason I struggle with believing in God.

However, our teacher has brought up some interesting questions about God and His existence. My teacher’s insight has troubled me and I would like some feedback on these questions:

1. If God is a “perfect” God, why do we live in an imperfect world? Is the universe really perfect? Is nature really balanced, or is nature really fair to the animals or to us?

Well, Christians don’t say that nature is balanced. Christians say that our world is flawed and that (see Romans 8) creation is groaning for redemption. The question is: why did God allow this to happen? And I don’t think there is a good response to this. One standard one is to appeal to free will, which leads into your next question. I don’t find that response as persuasive as some do. A more traditional starting point is Aquinas’s response in the passage I cited earlier:

As Augustine says (Enchiridion xi): “Since God is the highest good, He would not allow any evil to exist in His works, unless His omnipotence and goodness were such as to bring good even out of evil.” This is part of the infinite goodness of God, that He should allow evil to exist, and out of it produce good.

I think that in some form, combined with a robust doctrine of free will (which won’t do the work on its own IMHO), this is the best approach. But it can seem rather cold-blooded, as if God were a great artist who used human agony as part of the total effect.

 

[Contarini]

1. If God does have a plan for us and if all of our days are pre-determined, then how do we make a choice? Are our choices incorporated into God’s plan?

The simple answer is yes. The problem is that we tend to think of God as some big Planner in the Sky, sitting outside of us and manipulating us like puppets. That is not how it works. God is the cause of our very act of existence. God is more intimately present to us than we are to ourselves. So when we act, it is only because God is acting in us. This doesn’t inhibit our freedom–it is what makes freedom possible. God’s action and our action are not two mutually incompatible things.

What remains to be explained, again, is how we manage to choose evil. God is the author of what is real and good in our actions, but not of the distortion that makes our actions evil. That comes from ourselves alone, when we draw back from cooperation with God’s action in us.

1. Evolution. Did we evolve from animals? If so, was evolution a part of God’s plan?

I would say yes and yes. But of course this is not a matter of faith. It appears that this is how it happened, so this is how God did it. Of course there are those who are not convinced that this is how it happened, and that’s OK.

1. Dinosaurs. Why is it that these creatures are not mentioned in the Bible?

Why would they be? Armadillos aren’t mentioned either, or aardvarks if you really want to start at the beginning of the alphabet.

Actually, a case has been made that Job 40 and 41 may refer to dinosaurs under the names “behemoth” and “leviathan.” These creatures certainly sound more like dinosaurs than like any creatures that we know today (behemoth is often identified as a hippopotamus or an elephant, and leviathan as a whale or a crocodile, but if so then the Biblical descriptions are very loose and metaphorical). I don’t buy this argument, because I accept the consensus of scientists that dinosaurs became extinct long before humans appeared (still, there is the Loch Ness Monster and similar stories, so I’m not 100% sure about this!). But you have no reason to worry about why the Bible doesn’t mention dinosaurs. If you think it’s a priori reasonable to suppose that the Bible would mention dinosaurs (which I don’t particularly), then Job provides an easy answer.

1. Eternity. My teacher brought this up: Will we really be happy in eternity? Will we ever get bored in Heaven?

That really makes me think poorly of your professor, frankly. This is one of the silliest objections atheists make. Boredom is a function of our own limitations, pure and simple. And since God is infinite, it would be impossible to be bored with God. I suspect that this objection often comes from ex-Christians who remember dreary Sunday mornings in church and assume that heaven is like that. It’s not a very thoughtful argument.

BTW, your professor may assume that in the Christian conception our state in heaven is static and unchanging. Some have spoken this way, but not all–Gregory of Nyssa, for instance, says that we will go on changing and growing infinitely throughout eternity. Since God is infinite goodness, there is room for (literally) an eternity of growth without any fear that we will ever come to an end of God.

1. God’s Wrath. God loves us more than we will ever know. God the Father sent His own Son here to die for us so that our sins could be forgiven. Why would a God who loves us so very much send us to Hell or to Purgatory?

Hell and Purgatory are simply the result of our own evil. God does not arbitrarily choose to send us there. A being who has irrevocably chosen to reject God cannot possibly be happy in God’s presence. A being who is not yet perfectly sanctified will experience God’s presence as painful until that sanctification is complete (this may not be an entirely orthodox interpretation of hell and purgatory from a Catholic point of view–I think it is, but I’m not a Catholic so don’t take my word for it!). This really boils down, once again, to the question of why God allows evil. The problem of hell is the most acute form of the problem of evil.

I should note that one great 20th-century Catholic theologian, Hans Urs von Balthasar, thought that it was possible–not inevitable, but possible–that everyone would eventually be saved. This is of course very controversial, and many would call it heresy. But the Magisterium has never condemned this view, even though it’s widely held among Catholic theologians, and the current Pope has spoken very highly of von Balthasar. So (again, from my imperfect, non-Catholic perspective) this appears to be a legitimate (if highly dubious) option for Catholics.

In Christ,

Edwin

 

[Contarini]

The Catholic answer is simple:

No, it’s not. Aquinas, for instance, does not mention this in his response to the problem of evil. Your suggestion is a Catholic answer, but it’s not the most classic or traditional one and is certainly not *the *Catholic answer.

God wants us to choose to love him. Adoration from those who cannot help but adore is not truly love.

Augustine said that the greatest freedom will be in heaven when we are unable to sin.

This ability to choose requires that evil exist – otherwise there is no choice.

It may require the possibility of evil, but it certainly doesn’t require the existence of evil. (I got into huge trouble on my prelims for saying that Aquinas thought evil was necessary, so this is a point to which I’m very sensitive!)

I believe the general answer to this one is that while God is all-knowing and therefore knows how we’ll act, he does not force us into that action. Predestination is not a Catholic doctrine.

As others have pointed out, this is exactly false. Predestination is a very Catholic doctrine indeed. Certainly a form of predestination in which God forces us to act in a certain way is not Catholic doctrine, but this isn’t even a good description of the Calvinist view. It’s pretty hard to find someone who thinks that God forces us–that is one of those absurd positions that people use as foils for their own view, but which no one actually believes.

My take on omniscience vs. free will is that God knows all possible choices we can make and, should he have a divine plan for us, has accounted for all these posssibilities; he lets us choose which path along that plan we’ll take.

That is one view held by Catholics. It is a relatively modern view although it seems dominant today.

5) Eternity. My teacher brought this up: Will we really be happy in eternity? Will we ever get bored in Heaven?

Eternity is outside sequential time. Where we here count one second from the next, someone existing in eternity has no sense of time passing. He or she simply is, all at once.

That’s one view. Gregory of Nyssa has a somewhat different take.

Edwin

 

[Maranatha]

I suggest you get Handbook of Christian Apologetics by Dr. Peter Kreeft and Ronald Tacelli. This will be a valuable resource that review beginer philosophical arguments from a Dr. of philosophy who is also Catholic. You can get some of this same information quickly at peterkreeft.com/home.htm.

 

[Ruben]

Since some good answers have been provided already that I cannot improve upon, I would though like to mention the three motives of credibility that Fulton Sheen talks about in his 50 part series on the faith (can be found on keepthefaith.org or saintjoe.com). The following may not fit into the typical philosophical arguments that we often hear in academics but I did want to mention them because they can possibly offer some additional insight and edification when addressing the basic question on the existence of God.

The three motives of credibility Archbishop Sheen talks on are that Jesus is the only founder of a world religion that was ever pre-announced, that his miracles established his credentials, and that nothing Jesus never taught was contrary to reason. Sheen goes into much more detail as to the meaning and implications of these arguments than I could here do justice to, so I recommend checking out his talks.

 

[Trad_Catholic_1]

Hi there,

I hope I put this in the right forum

First let me say that I am a die-hard Catholic. With that said, I am taking an Introduction to Philosophy course at the University of Michigan and right now we are talking about the existence of God. We are looking at both sides of the argument: A few class sessions ago we studied the Design argument for God’s existence and now we are studying the moral argument for God’s existence.
Explanations of the arguments:

The Design Argument:
Basically, this argument states that all the intelligent design in the universe had to be designed by a designer; AKA the watch had to be made by a watch maker.

The Moral Argument:
This argument states that every human being has morals; where do our “morals” come from? Why do we all have a sense of “right” and “wrong?” Do our morals come from our upbringing or do they come from God?

In the next few class sessions we are going to study the Argument of Evil against God’s Existence. I’ll be back to let you know what that is about.

Now onto my questions:

In this class, the teacher is an athiest( Big shocker there huh?). He says he doesnt believe in God because God allows horrible things to happen to mankind. However, our teacher has brought up some interesting questions about God and His existence. My teacher’s insight has troubled me and I would like some feedback on these questions:

1. If God is a “perfect” God, why do we live in an imperfect world? Is the universe really perfect? Is nature really balanced, or is nature really fair to the animals or to us?
2. If God does have a plan for us and if all of our days are pre-determined, then how do we make a choice? Are our choices incorporated into God’s plan?
3. Evolution. Did we evolve from animals? If so, was evolution a part of God’s plan?
4. Dinosaurs. Why is it that these creatures are not mentioned in the Bible?
5. Eternity. My teacher brought this up: Will we really be happy in eternity? Will we ever get bored in Heaven?
6. God’s Wrath. God loves us more than we will ever know. God the Father sent His own Son here to die for us so that our sins could be forgiven. Why would a God who loves us so very much send us to Hell or to Purgatory?

Conclusion:

Now, I want to make one thing very VERY clear: I am NOT an athiest. These are simply questions that my professor has brought to the table for us, students, to think about. I am NOT trying to sway any of you in ur faith. Like I said in the beginning, I am a very devout Catholic.
Now, with that said, I would like your opinion on these questions. I, for one, would love to stand up amongst the athiests in my class and defend God!
Any feedback u provide will be used to defend God and His creation in my Philosophy class.

Thank you and God bless you,

Nathan

These are all theological questions that the Church has already answered. There may be alternative explanations but the Church’s responses are valid from a philosophical perspective. So it becomes: “As a Catholic my position is that…” etc.

You need to back up a little. You say your teacher’s insight has troubled you. When your teacher states he is an atheist and doesn’t believe that God exists, he must first define which or what God he doesn’t believe exists, because “God” covers so many different conceptions from crude tribalism to sophisticated notions of an Infinite Substance. Philosophically, atheism is a very difficult position to sustain because it can only exist in relation to some perceived diety anyway.

Paul.

 

[Malcolm_McLean]

Hi there,
The Design Argument:
Basically, this argument states that all the intelligent design in the universe had to be designed by a designer; AKA the watch had to be made by a watch maker.

The Moral Argument:
This argument states that every human being has morals; where do our “morals” come from? Why do we all have a sense of “right” and “wrong?” Do our morals come from our upbringing or do they come from God?

Believer: “There be Bigfeet in those there forests”.
Sceptic: “Nonsense. The Candian forests are not productive enough to support large ape-like animals. They would starve.”

It is very unlikely that Bigfoot is real, but the argument against them is very weak. If the forests can support bears, they can support other large mammals.

It is extremely easy to offer a weak argument for a strong position. If you recognise that, and that it also applies to causes you personally believe in very strongly, you should pass your course with flying colours.

 

[Mirdath]

As others have pointed out, this is exactly false. Predestination is a very Catholic doctrine indeed. Certainly a form of predestination in which God forces us to act in a certain way is not Catholic doctrine, but this isn’t even a good description of the Calvinist view. It’s pretty hard to find someone who thinks that God forces us–that is one of those absurd positions that people use as foils for their own view, but which no one actually believes.

Okay, okay, I was referring to Calvinist predestination, stop jumping on me!

 

[tm30]

1. If God is a “perfect” God, why do we live in an imperfect world? Is the universe really perfect? Is nature really balanced, or is nature really fair to the animals or to us?

1. If God does have a plan for us and if all of our days are pre-determined, then how do we make a choice? Are our choices incorporated into God’s plan?

1. Evolution. Did we evolve from animals? If so, was evolution a part of God’s plan?

1. Dinosaurs. Why is it that these creatures are not mentioned in the Bible?

1. Eternity. My teacher brought this up: Will we really be happy in eternity? Will we ever get bored in Heaven?

1. God’s Wrath. God loves us more than we will ever know. God the Father sent His own Son here to die for us so that our sins could be forgiven. Why would a God who loves us so very much send us to Hell or to Purgatory?

ANSWERS(?)

1. Who says the world is imperfect? Ever see a strand of DNA? The world is perfect. Sin has brought it to disorder. All of nature, all of science is ordered for the benefit of God’s greatest creation, man. Since man is the only creation made in God’s image, we can’t refer to the food chain below us as being more or less fair to one creature or another. They are all there to facilitate the welfare of man and the environment in which he worships God.
2. God has already seen what we will do with our free will. God is removed from time, and has heard each and every one of our prayers. If you read this sentence and decide not to pray anymore, God knew you would do that. If you keep doing what you’re doing, in pursuit of salvation, He knows that, too. His “plan” was to give you that choice. Because it’s a fait accompli from His perspective, that doesn’t mean you can “escape” your next choice, and it doesn’t mean you’re consigned to some potential choice because God already knew it ahead of you. It’s a question almost too big to wrap our feeble minds around, but then again, all we have to worry about has been summed up by the Blessed Mother: “Do whatever He tells you.”
3. Possibly maybe, but it’s irrelevant as long as it’s agreed that human beings (not some hybrid between man and ape) are endowed with a soul in the image of God. We don’t read the Creation story in a literalistic sense. How God manifested the universe and got us from Point A to Point B is debatable, but any conclusion MUST agree that God is THE Creator, and man is HIS creation, in HIS image.
4. There are thousands upon thousands of creatures not mentioned in the Bible. In the case of “pre-historic” creatures, see #3. It’s highly unlikely the universe was created in a spate of time as measured by our orbit alone, i,e., seven, 24-hour days. We don’t know how long the earth existed before God created Adam. Science dates the earth in millions of years. Any faith that reads the Creation story as a 7-day wonder is conradicted by a truth of science, and the Church (going back to Augustine, even) has long considered Genesis 1 as historical truth, but conveyed to the Hebrews in a literary convention that they could grasp (i.e., not scientifically).
5. A creation seeks to emulate its creator. God is happiness in HIs own right. Perfect joy. When we are in heaven, we will be perfectly united to our Creator, and thus, perfectly emulating His love, and so, perfectly happy. Remember what Paul said, “Eye has not seen, ear has not heard…” To question whether we’ll be bored is about as fatalistic as one can be.
6. We separate ourselves by our own choice. God didn’t tell Adam and Eve to betray Him. Jesus didn’t force Judas to betray Him. The soul, at death, will be disposed to its own truth. We eat and drink judgment upon ourselves. So far as Purgatory goes, we simply cannot enjoy the beatific vision (perfection) if we are attached to sin in any way at our death. God is so loving that, even though we are barred from that beatific vision, we are not simply left with no other option but hell. If we have not removed ourselves from the Book of Life, then we can still enjoy God’s merciful purification in Purgatory.

Hope that helps.

 

[mlchance]

He says he doesnt believe in God because God allows horrible things to happen to mankind.

If that is indeed the way the instructor put his objection, it’d be polite to point out that it seems self-refuting. How can God both not be and yet be the cause of anything?

As for the rest, there isn’t an original thought in the entire list. There are numerous cogent refutations of every single on, as I’m sure others will happily point out.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[Ignatius]

Hi there,

I hope I put this in the right forum

First let me say that I am a die-hard Catholic. With that said, I am taking an Introduction to Philosophy course at the University of Michigan and right now we are talking about the existence of God. We are looking at both sides of the argument: A few class sessions ago we studied the Design argument for God’s existence and now we are studying the moral argument for God’s existence.
Explanations of the arguments:

The Design Argument:
Basically, this argument states that all the intelligent design in the universe had to be designed by a designer; AKA the watch had to be made by a watch maker.

The Moral Argument:
This argument states that every human being has morals; where do our “morals” come from? Why do we all have a sense of “right” and “wrong?” Do our morals come from our upbringing or do they come from God?

In the next few class sessions we are going to study the Argument of Evil against God’s Existence. I’ll be back to let you know what that is about.

Now onto my questions:

In this class, the teacher is an atheist( Big shocker there huh?). He says he doesn’t believe in God because God allows horrible things to happen to mankind. However, our teacher has brought up some interesting questions about God and His existence. My teacher’s insight has troubled me and I would like some feedback on these questions:

1. If God is a “perfect” God, why do we live in an imperfect world? Is the universe really perfect? Is nature really balanced, or is nature really fair to the animals or to us?
2. If God does have a plan for us and if all of our days are pre-determined, then how do we make a choice? Are our choices incorporated into God’s plan?
3. Evolution. Did we evolve from animals? If so, was evolution a part of God’s plan?
4. Dinosaurs. Why is it that these creatures are not mentioned in the Bible?
5. Eternity. My teacher brought this up: Will we really be happy in eternity? Will we ever get bored in Heaven?
6. God’s Wrath. God loves us more than we will ever know. God the Father sent His own Son here to die for us so that our sins could be forgiven. Why would a God who loves us so very much send us to Hell or to Purgatory?

Conclusion:

Now, I want to make one thing very VERY clear: I am NOT an atheist. These are simply questions that my professor has brought to the table for us, students, to think about. I am NOT trying to sway any of you in ur faith. Like I said in the beginning, I am a very devout Catholic.
Now, with that said, I would like your opinion on these questions. I, for one, would love to stand up amongst the atheists in my class and defend God!
Any feedback u provide will be used to defend God and His creation in my Philosophy class.

Thank you and God bless you,

Nathan

Kudos for an excellent question and an erudite and intelligent post.

This is not a new thing, it was so from the beginning:

Psa 14:1The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.”
Psa 14:2 The LORD looks down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there are any that act wisely, that seek after God.
Psa 14:3 They have all gone astray, they are all alike corrupt; there is none that does good, no, not one.
Psa 14:4 Have they no knowledge, all the evildoers who eat up my people as they eat bread, and do not call upon the LORD?

Beside they will not accept your arguments. It should be obvious to even the most meager of intellect that all of the elements necessary for the makeup of a model T Ford exist in the Sahara desert. The model T is vastly more simple than even a sand flea and there are billions of them in the Sahara desert so, according to the theory of chance development of the universe, model T’s should also have been formed merely by chance.

However, for whatever reason, God has made it so that His existence is not empirically provable and so it requires us to trust in Him and have Faith.

 

[natedagw824]

Kudos for an excellent question and an erudite and intelligent post.

This is not a new thing, it was so from the beginning:

Psa 14:1The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.”
Psa 14:2 The LORD looks down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there are any that act wisely, that seek after God.
Psa 14:3 They have all gone astray, they are all alike corrupt; there is none that does good, no, not one.
Psa 14:4 Have they no knowledge, all the evildoers who eat up my people as they eat bread, and do not call upon the LORD?

Beside they will not accept your arguments. It should be obvious to even the most meager of intellect that all of the elements necessary for the makeup of a model T Ford exist in the Sahara desert. The model T is vastly more simple than even a sand flea and there are billions of them in the Sahara desert so, according to the theory of chance development of the universe, model T’s should also have been formed merely by chance.

However, for whatever reason, God has made it so that His existence is not empirically provable and so it requires us to trust in Him and have Faith.

Thank you for the very kind reply,

Nathan

 

[natedagw824]

Well I’m back with another question,

Like I said at the beginning of my post; I was born and raised Catholic, but I have some questions about God and the Blessed Mother. Just to let you know, I’m not an athiest.

Anyway, I have a question about our Blessed Mother:

1. Since, she is the Mother of God, doesn’t that give her “more seniority” over God?

I have struggled with this concept for awhile; if you could answer my question I would really appreciate it.

By the way, are there any other good Catholic websites out there on the net?

Thanks for your help,

Nathan