PHILOSOPHY: Introduction

[Abba]

Good morning folks!

Top of the morning to you all, :tiphat:

I am going to start a series of threads that will be covering the basics of philosophy. I have my old logic book here; A Concise Logic, William Halverson and hundreds of philosophy books and of course access to the internet. But, it is one thing to read and study and another to discuss the topic and ask questions and make comments. I find that discussing helps to better understand and integrate/digest the information.

I do not only need a review but, I also have much to learn. MindOverMatter2, has the logic down pact and I have invited him to participate and everyone is invited. I also understand that a lot of the participants in the philosophy forum are not familiar with the vocabulary used in philosophical discussions and this series will give us the opportunity to learn these terms and become familiar with some of the stars in philosophy and their contributions.

Keep in mind, that a lot of the posters are college students, professors and professionals; but, there are a lot of folks like myself that are moms, working people etc… so don’t feel intimidated. Let’s get the basics down pact.

In this series, no previous knowledge is assumed and no question is too stupid. Let’s have fun.

Please make questions and comments and share your thoughts. What topic will you like covered? etc…

Blessings,

Abba

 

[promethius]

;8499462:

Blessings,

Abba

Why do you call yourself this name?

 

[Scoobyshme]

Why do you call yourself this name?

I think your PC messed up. The name is Abba on my PC.

 

[Abba]

I think your PC messed up. The name is Abba on my PC.

Hello Scooby,

I think, promethius is referring to Abba. It may not be to that number of the post. Just in case, I’ll answer for why; Abba.

But, I have to put my chauffeur hat right now and take my son to the university. I have to stay in the parking lot and wait for him. This will only be until December. Oh, well, it allows me time with my son as it is an hour drive to there and an hour back. Next year he will be living in campus and I will miss him. So, I am making the best of it.

So, I’ll answer when I get back.

 

[Abba]

Why do you call yourself this name?

Hello promethius,

I had to chose a private name to keep my identity confidential. So, I chose Abba as a username. Why, Abba? Because I receive a lot of joy to know that I can call God - Abba.

I use it to end my posts and say good by etc… as if it was my name and I address people by their username. I participate in another forum where this is done more often than in this one and I find that it is good because the person is being addressed that you are communicating with verses just posting without acknowledging the person that is being addressed.

Hope this answer your question. I am truly filled with joy when I think about how we can call God; Abba. It is very special to me. So, I chose that as the username.

Gotta go…

Peace,

Abba

 

[promethius]

I think your PC messed up. The name is Abba on my PC.

No, it didn’t, I deleted the name from the quote section because Abba is the proper name of the person of God the father (from the greek word ba for father and the aramaic honorific A-, which converts it from a title to a name). This is the name we are forbidden from calling men, and the real meaning of “call no man Abba on earth, for you have but one Abba who is in heaven”… a reference to the fact that Caesar thought himself to be god of the state and therefore demanded to be addressed by the early christians as Abba Caesar… taking the name of God as his own. Christians died as martyrs when they refused to call Caesar by this name. Hence, I took it out so that the perception would not be that I was calling someone else by this name.

 

[promethius]

8500482:

Hope this answer your question. I am truly filled with joy when I think about how we can call God; Abba. It is very special to me. So, I chose that as the username.

I hope you understand why I must forgo calling you by this name, and would suggest that you request a user name change if that is possible. I detailed in the post above why the name Abba is forbidden for us to call any man on earth… because it is not a title, but rather a proper name of God… somewhat similar to a Jew naming their child Yahweh… it would be considered gravely disrespectful to God to take this name as our own…

 

[Abba]

Dear promethius,

I can see that you feel very strongly about your understanding regarding the word, Abba. I can see if this was a Protestant forum how there would be a problem as Protestants understand that by this saying of Jesus, Jesus meant not to call any man Father. Because of this misunderstanding of what Jesus meant, Protestants do not call their ‘pastors’ - Fathers. Catholics call priests Fathers and let me just say that when I call a priest Father - I have a great spiritual peace. I really mean ‘Father’ when I call a priest ‘Father’ because for my soul that is who he is to me - my spiritual Father.

Jesus was referring to the scribes and Pharisees, who had been adding and deleting the teachings that they were suppose to be passing down and establishing their own traditions and thereby tainting or clouding the correct teaching and in doing so hindering the flock and they wanted to be called ‘father’ or ‘teacher’ and the buck seem to stop with them. As though they were ‘masters’ not servants of holy traditions and God. Our priests sacrifice themselves for Jesus and serve Jesus and the Catholic Church is faithful to the teachings of Our Lord Jesus Christ. When I call a priest “Father” I am acknowledging and corresponding with him as my spiritual Father of the teachings of Our Lord Jesus Christ and Sacred Tradition not his traditions and not him as a person but as a servant of Our Lord.

Paul addressed the faithfuls as 'My children…" and in the letter to the Corinthians (1 Cor 4:15 ) he wrote: “For if you were to have countless tutors in Christ, yet you would not have many fathers; for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel” If I were in that audience, I would understand that I could call Bishop Paul, Father. There are many examples in the Bible that demonstrate that Jesus was not referring to the use of the word Father and looking back in the Old Testament we recall that Lazarus referred to Abraham as Father and he was not corrected by Abraham.

The word Abba is used in the Bible three times.

Mark 14:36

36And he said, "Abba, Father, all things are possible for you. Remove this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will

Romans 8:15
15For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!”

Galatians 4:6

6And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!”

It is with the Spirit that we cry out: Abba!

Abba - biblical scholars have determined is Aramaic for Daddy. We can call my Father, your Father, our Father - Daddy!

Imagine the impact on the Jewish community! Here were the Jewish people waiting for the Messiah to come in power and defend them from their enemies and Jesus comes wearing sandals and telling them that they can call God - Daddy! The Holy spirit in me and through Jesus cries out to the Father almost as an explosion - Abba, Father!

I love God and, he loves me and you and each and every person reading this thread and every human being that has existed, exists now and ever will exist. He loves us so much and I know it and I love him and sometimes that is exactly what I want to call him - Daddy.

Go ahead, call him Abba - Daddy.

If I have failed to explain myself, please keep in mind, that if I was incorrect, the moderators of this forum and the other Catholic forums where I participate and where I have the same user name would not allow the use of the name if you were right and I was wrong. If you do not understand and it bothers you, please select me as someone whose posts you do not want to see. I forget what that is called but there is that option in this program.

Now there are people that use their user name as a forum nickname or they may close with their first real name. When people use their first real name I address them with their real name and when they close with their username I address them with their user name, for example, Scooby. In another forum I participate in, someone’s username is AveMaria and the man closes with that username and so I address him with that username. I don’t have a problem with that, because the usernames are chosen by people because the person’s name is spiritually special to them and it serves as a reminder and to honor that person. Of course, you can forgo addressing me as ‘Abba’ if you prefer, I just like addressing people by their username to make human contact.

May the peace of Our Lord Jesus Christ be with you and may our Blessed Mother Mary protect you and guide you to her son,

Abba

 

[grannymh]

Good morning folks!

Top of the morning to you all, :tiphat:

I am going to start a series of threads that will be covering the basics of philosophy. I have my old logic book here; A Concise Logic, William Halverson and hundreds of philosophy books and of course access to the internet. But, it is one thing to read and study and another to discuss the topic and ask questions and make comments. I find that discussing helps to better understand and integrate/digest the information.

I do not only need a review but, I also have much to learn. MindOverMatter2, has the logic down pact and I have invited him to participate and everyone is invited. I also understand that a lot of the participants in the philosophy forum are not familiar with the vocabulary used in philosophical discussions and this series will give us the opportunity to learn these terms and become familiar with some of the stars in philosophy and their contributions.

Keep in mind, that a lot of the posters are college students, professors and professionals; but, there are a lot of folks like myself that are moms, working people etc… so don’t feel intimidated. Let’s get the basics down pact.

In this series, no previous knowledge is assumed and no question is too stupid. Let’s have fun.

Please make questions and comments and share your thoughts. What topic will you like covered? etc…

Blessings,

Abba

Please count me in as a participant – or at least a reader.

Blessings,
granny

The human person is worthy of profound respect from the moment of conception.

 

[Abba]

Please count me in as a participant – or at least a reader.

Blessings,
granny

The human person is worthy of profound respect from the moment of conception.

Terrific!

 

[Shike]

Please count me in as a participant – or at least a reader.

Blessings,
granny

The human person is worthy of profound respect from the moment of conception.

I am always interested as well. I suggest making different threads for each topic and keeping the thread name a similar format such as: “Intro to philosophy - law of non-contradiction” ect. All in all, sounds like a great idea… go for it!

As for your username, promethius has a very excellent point.

Now I don’t think anyone should object to your exegesis on the name (Protestants could learn something from that)… really, I can see someone accepting almost everything you said in that post. I even think someone should accept your spiritual insights of calling God by the name of Father and even Daddy.

But using it as your name seems disrespectful. Wasn’t there someone on these forums that used to go around with the name ‘God’? Pretty sure he was banned. But ‘aveMaria’ is definitely alright because it means “Hail Mary”.

Oh, and the moderators aren’t perfect. Nor could or should they micromanage everything.

But it seems you’ve been around these forums for a while, so it looks like folks will have to put up with it.

Ciao,
Michael

 

[promethius]

8501844:

I can see that you feel very strongly about your understanding regarding the word, Abba. I can see if this was a Protestant forum how there would be a problem as Protestants understand that by this saying of Jesus, Jesus meant not to call any man Father. Because of this misunderstanding of what Jesus meant, Protestants do not call their ‘pastors’ - Fathers. Catholics call priests Fathers and let me just say that when I call a priest Father - I have a great spiritual peace. I really mean ‘Father’ when I call a priest ‘Father’ because for my soul that is who he is to me - my spiritual Father.

A wonderful point, however, your exegesis is incorrect. Protestants do not call their pastors father because they share your confusion about the meaning of the term “Abba”.

What we call priests is not a derivative of the word “Abba”. It is a derivative of the word Pater (latin) or Ho Pater (greek), or Ahb (arabic), or Av (hebrew), etc. These are formal non-honorifics. These use father as a title.

As I already stated, the word Abba is a combination of the greek familiar word “ba” meaning “dad” or “daddy” with the aramaic honorific A- which converts the greek term into a proper name… not a title. In other words, the word Abba is a aramaic-greek word which is NOT a title, NOT something we would call a man. It is the name of God, like, as I said, the Tetragammon.

Jesus was referring to the scribes and Pharisees, who had been adding and deleting the teachings that they were suppose to be passing down and establishing their own traditions and thereby tainting or clouding the correct teaching and in doing so hindering the flock and they wanted to be called ‘father’ or ‘teacher’ and the buck seem to stop with them. As though they were ‘masters’ not servants of holy traditions and God.

Incorrect historically. The people who were supposed to be called “Abba” were the Caesars. No scribe or pharisee would have wanted to be called Abba because 1) it is a name, not a title and 2) it is a greek/aramaic word, not a hebrew title… which would be spurned by the scribes and the pharisees. Jews who wanted to go as “father” would have requested to be called “ha’av”, not Abba.

Our priests sacrifice themselves for Jesus and serve Jesus and the Catholic Church is faithful to the teachings of Our Lord Jesus Christ. When I call a priest “Father” I am acknowledging and corresponding with him as my spiritual Father of the teachings of Our Lord Jesus Christ and Sacred Tradition not his traditions and not him as a person but as a servant of Our Lord.

Nonetheless, when you call a priest father, you are not calling him “Abba”, but rather pater, a latin title, not a proper name.

Paul addressed the faithfuls as 'My children…" and in the letter to the Corinthians (1 Cor 4:15 ) he wrote: “For if you were to have countless tutors in Christ, yet you would not have many fathers; for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel” If I were in that audience, I would understand that I could call Bishop Paul, Father. There are many examples in the Bible that demonstrate that Jesus was not referring to the use of the word Father and looking back in the Old Testament we recall that Lazarus referred to Abraham as Father and he was not corrected by Abraham.

That is correct, but incorrectly applied. Abba is not a word for the title father (it means a proper name, not a title), hence why Paul does not use Abba when referring to spiritual fatherhood.

I think the mistake you are making is thinking that there was only one greek/aramaic/hebrew word for father. That is incorrect. There were MANY terms in the time of Christ for father, but ONE which was a proper name and which was forbidden to be used for mere men.

The word Abba is used in the Bible three times.

It is with the Spirit that we cry out: Abba!

I’m not disagreeing that we call God by the name Abba. I’m disagreeing that we should ever be asked to call any man by this name for any reason.

Abba - biblical scholars have determined is Aramaic for Daddy. We can call my Father, your Father, our Father - Daddy!

Except that Abba is only a word that APPEARS in the aramaic and greek languages. It is a combination of the two. Ba is correct for the familiar form of “father” in greek, and this is what I would call MY father, had I grown up in Jesus’ day (unless I were in trouble, then I might address him in greek as “ho pater”). Adding the formal honorific turns it into a personal usage of a formal name… God’s name. Abba does not just mean the title “daddy”, it is formally a NAME.

If I have failed to explain myself, please keep in mind, that if I was incorrect, the moderators of this forum and the other Catholic forums where I participate and where I have the same user name would not allow the use of the name if you were right and I was wrong.

this is not an argument. The moderators allow an atheist to go with the handle “non-serviam”… the blasphemous words of Satan when presented the image of Christ in God’s plan. I sincerely doubt that if they’ll allow that, that they’re strictly looking at your name either.

Of course, you can forgo addressing me as ‘Abba’ if you prefer, I just like addressing people by their username to make human contact.

Fair enough, and that is my intention. I just wanted you to understand that my refusal to call you “Abba” is not out of disrespect for you, but out of ultimate respect for God.

 

[Boulder257]

I am also interested int the discussion, so please include me as well. I won’t have much to add (unless you count questions), but I certainly want to listen.

Thanks!

 

[Abba]

promethius, in the years I have used this username I have received many comments and they have all been positive. You are the first person to express having a problem with the use of the word: Abba. The was a man, I remember who express joy at my use of the word. He understood my spirituality.

A wonderful point, however, your exegesis is incorrect. Protestants do not call their pastors father because they share your confusion about the meaning of the term “Abba”.

By extension as Abba means
‘Daddy’ because Jesus said: “Call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven” (Matt. 23:9).

What we call priests is not a derivative of the word “Abba”. It is a derivative of the word Pater (latin) or Ho Pater (greek), or Ahb (arabic), or Av (hebrew), etc. These are formal non-honorifics. These use father as a title.

I never said that ‘Father’ is a derivative of ‘Abba’.

As I already stated, the word Abba is a combination of the greek familiar word “ba” meaning “dad” or "daddy"

Where did you state that Abba means Daddy? I was the one to note that Abba means Daddy.

with the aramaic honorific A- which converts the greek term into a proper name… not a title. In other words, the word Abba is a aramaic-greek word which is NOT a title, NOT something we would call a man. It is the name of God, like, as I said, the Tetragammon.

Nothing is like the Tetragammaton it either is or it isn’t. You cannot declare that Abba is the name of God.

“In the Catholic Church, the first edition of the official Vatican Nova Vulgata Bibliorum Sacrorum, published in 1979, used the form Iahveh for rendering the Tetragrammaton.[83] Later editions of this version replaced “Iahveh” with “Dominus”, in keeping with a long-standing Catholic tradition of avoiding direct usage of the Ineffable Name.
On August 8, 2008, Bishop Arthur J. Serratelli, chairman of the American bishops’ “Committee on Divine Worship”, announced a new directive from the Vatican regarding the use of the name of God in the sacred liturgy. “Specifically, the word ‘Yahweh’ may no longer be ‘used or pronounced’ in songs and prayers during liturgical celebrations.”[84] In fact, for most of the Church’s 2,000-year history use of the name was prohibited in public worship, out of respect for the Divine Name, according to Catholic tradition. After Second Vatican Council (1962–65), some songs and hymns had begun to use the Tetragrammaton, which caused the Vatican to issue a clarification that the Divine Name was not to be used. Hymnals with these hymns have since inserted the word “Lord God” or other two-syllable alternatives in the place of the Tetragrammaton.” en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetragrammaton#Catholic_Church

Further reading: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetragrammaton

Incorrect historically. The people who were supposed to be called “Abba” were the Caesars. No scribe or pharisee would have wanted to be called Abba because 1) it is a name, not a title and 2) it is a greek/aramaic word, not a hebrew title… which would be spurned by the scribes and the pharisees. Jews who wanted to go as “father” would have requested to be called “ha’av”, not Abba.

You are either twisting my words here or have seriously misunderstood what I have tried to state. This is of course, assuming that you really do want to understand what I am trying to share with you not simply trying to win an ‘argument’ which you have started and seem to be going at it all by yourself like Don Quijote fight the wind. Because you are arguing against things I have not said.

Nonetheless, when you call a priest father, you are not calling him “Abba”, but rather pater, a latin title, not a proper name.

I think I know this, there you go, arguing against a position I am not holding. I seriously do not have time for this.
Continue…

 

[Abba]

That is correct, but incorrectly applied. Abba is not a word for the title father (it means a proper name, not a title), hence why Paul does not use Abba when referring to spiritual fatherhood.

You are misunderstand everything I have said and twisting my words around. Jesus taught us that we could call our Father in heaven - Abba - which is an endearing word for father which biblical scholars understand an equivalent to be daddy.

I think the mistake you are making is thinking that there was only one greek/aramaic/hebrew word for father. That is incorrect. There were MANY terms in the time of Christ for father, but ONE which was a proper name and which was forbidden to be used for mere men.

Except that Abba is only a word that APPEARS in the aramaic and greek languages. It is a combination of the two. Ba is correct for the familiar form of “father” in greek, and this is what I would call MY father, had I grown up in Jesus’ day (unless I were in trouble, then I might address him in greek as “ho pater”). Adding the formal honorific turns it into a personal usage of a formal name… God’s name. Abba does not just mean the title “daddy”, it is formally a NAME.

We understand it as an exclamation. I suggest you do some serious research. If you had been more charitable and sincere with you attack ( e.g. clearly addressing what I stated not putting words in my mouth nor twisting what I said and giving credit etc…) I would continue an analysis with you. However as I am finding the discussion unpleasant I suggest that you start a thread and perhaps other can share their understanding with you. I suggest that you pray on it.

Again, you can always select me as a person whose posts you do not want to see. I don’t know how it is done but you go to your user control panel and there you will see an option.

The bottom line is that I have a spiritual understanding that you do not share and Abba is not the name of God. It is an exclamation inspired by the Holy Spirit.

Peace,

Abba

 

[Abba]

But using it as your name seems disrespectful. Wasn’t there someone on these forums that used to go around with the name ‘God’? Pretty sure he was banned. But ‘aveMaria’ is definitely alright because it means “Hail Mary”.

Ciao,
Michael

Ave Maria! is fine and so is Abba! Father! In the same way Ave Maria is an exclamation so is Abba Father! It may help to read what I wrote again, slowly and with an open mind, and then perhaps you will understand.

LETTER OF THE HOLY FATHER
POPE JOHN PAUL II
TO PRIESTS
FOR HOLY THURSDAY 1999
How can we fail to notice the uniqueness of what the Apostle writes? He declares that it is precisely the Spirit who cries out: Abba, Father! Historically in fact, through the mystery of the Incarnation and Redemption, the witness to the fatherhood of God has been the Son of God: it was he who taught us to turn to God and call him “Father”. He himself invoked God as “my Father”, and he taught us to pray to God with the affectionate name of “our Father”. Yet Saint Paul tells us that it is through the inner instruction of the Holy Spirit that the Son’s teaching must, in a certain sense, be brought to life in the soul of those who listen to him. In fact, only through the work of the Spirit are we able to adore God in truth, invoking him as “Abba, Father”. vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_let_14031999_priests_en.html

Peace,

Abba

 

[grannymh]

When Abba is spelled backwards, it is still Abba. That settles the issue of the name.

Abba,

What is the very first thing you would say about philosophy?

 

[StrawberryJam]

May I suggest another thread be started and this one be vacated so that persons wanting to persue this thread do not have to sift through the many posts before granny’s last one?

Could help.

 

[Abba]

When Abba is spelled backwards, it is still Abba. That settles the issue of the name.

Abba,

What is the very first thing you would say about philosophy?

Hello granny,

I am looking forward to when my time comes to be a granny.

It’s the end of a long day for me now, I will try to post tomorrow with more details. Generally, I have been thinking that it will be good to have a beginning and an end to the introduction, we can look at it as an academic year ending May 13th or like at my alma mater May 27th. I was thinking that we can list certain categories that will be covered and the number of thread in each which could be a range of 3 to 7 with a minimum of 3. So, if we have three in each we are done and can continue as we like to the deadline.

The categories can be Logic, Epistemology, General Introduction to the Branches of Philosophy, philosophers and their contributions, vocabulary, etc…

The objective is to understand the fundamentals of philosophy to better be able to present our faith as a unity that is coherent with reality/the world. I remember the words of Peter; 1 Peter 3:15
15 But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect," I have found that a lot of the objections to our faith that individuals have, are unfounded and a good grounding in philosophy helps to get to the core of the matter.

What are you thinking? Is there something in particular you would like to discuss or learn or review? Thank you for your support.

Peace,

Abba

P.s. Lately, I have been reading Heidegger and how he thought that there is such a thing that we can call primordial knowledge. Which, according to Heidegger, is a legitimate mode of obtaining knowledge and, that with this cognitive process revelation is experience. An interesting thought, I am exploring. I have also been reading articles about what some philosophers have thought about mysticism like Walter Kaufman and John Locke and neither of them knew what they were talking about. And, I have been reading Principles of Christian Theology and I disagree with about 75 percent of what the author has written but, I continue to read it as I like the structure of the book and I am learning. It’s just that he does not know what he is talking about in regards to certain things and this affects his presentation and there are things which he has misunderstood. I don’t have the name of the author right now, the book is in my car. Of course, he is not Catholic.

I have also been pondering about Nietzsche, Tolstoy and the other existentialist. I would really like to keep a straight face when I would say that existentialism is philosophy but, I really do not think that it deserves the prominent role that it was given when it was a la mode. It would be of interest to philosophers as the movement that it was in the culture but as such, not as an intellectual endeavor that needed to be taken seriously. Yet, many modern philosopher became prominent, e.g. Nietzsche, Sartre, exactly as promoters of existentialism. I think that it is still of interest because that attitude is the motivator for a lot of non believers. It would be interesting to explore it and have some nice clear discussion. Basically, many modern non-believers think life is absurd and they can find meaning in their life with positivism and the like or as Tolstoy - with God.

I would also like to find out what Heidegger meant when he used the word ‘Being’.

 

[Abba]

May I suggest another thread be started and this one be vacated so that persons wanting to persue this thread do not have to sift through the many posts before granny’s last one?

Could help.

Yeah, StrawberryJam!

I try not to use too many pictures.

What do you think would be good categories or topic for us to cover? I need a bit of a review with the logic. Of course, we all know logic, but, it’s the names attached to the process that I forget and in general it would be good to review. The other day, MindOverMatter2, used the word syllogism and had to Google it. Hey, out of sight out of mind. I have been changing diapers. It would be nice to get a refresher course.