A
Ani_Ibi
Guest
Yes, but can you observe God?
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T
Truthstalker
Guest
Aquinas’ famous dictum comes to mind. We cannot know what He is, we can only know what He is not. and Jesus said, “no one has seen God at any time.”
The strategy of observation falls down. Ha! Presuppositionalism carries the ball!
Did all the atheists stop existing or just stop posting? I do not observe them posting.
G
GregoryPalamas
Guest
Ah, but isn’t this St. John Damascenes argument which Aquinas seeks to refute?
CDL
T
Truthstalker
Guest
You’re beyond me.
A
Ani_Ibi
Guest
But can you surmise that it might be possible for you to observe God in ways which you cannot now imagine?
If so, then the next step is your ability to observe God.
We cannot see a quantum particle. Does that mean that we cannot observe it? Does observation = see?
No. Only the strategy of equating observation with seeing falls down.
Maybe, but you’re running towards your endzone.
A
Ani_Ibi
Guest
Yes. Uncle Greg has to explain. How can we get him to do that? Oh! Let’s ask him.
C
Church_Militant
Guest
I think. Therefore I am.
T
Truthstalker
Guest
See post 5 and following, such as post 9.
J
JMJ_coder
Guest
Hello,
Man on the other hand is a contingent being. We rely on God for our existence. He created us, and He keeps us in existence at every moment by a positive act.
Yes. It is less reasonable that you exist than God exists. God is an uncreated being. He said to Moses “I AM”. One of God’s attributes is that He exists.
Man on the other hand is a contingent being. We rely on God for our existence. He created us, and He keeps us in existence at every moment by a positive act.
E
Everstruggling
Guest
Really? It seems to me like you responded to it.
It is funny that you should respond to someone whose existence you doubt. Seems a little crazy to me. It is a little like me responding to the voices in my head.
Shut up! Can’t you see I’m trying to type now? I’ll set the house on fire later!
Sorry, where was I. Oh yes, your continued response seems to me to be a tacit acceptance of my existence.
J
john_doran
Guest
i have shown it. you are not satisfied. ergo, its being shown and the interlocutor’s being convinced are not the same thing. so: it has been explained, and you simply reject the explanation…where does that leave us?
you’re right. are you suggesting that i implied otherwise? please point out where.
i’m not sure what you’re trying to get at here, but the question i have for you is, in the “null” universe, what “has” the property of “nothingness”?
i have no idea what you’re saying here…
ditto…
no. why would you think that?
E
Everstruggling
Guest
Okay, apparently you are convinced that you have explained how God is a necessary being. To give you the benefit of the doubt, I re-read the post I started on necessary beings. I don’t see any proofs that God is a necessary being. You suggest cause and effect are necessary, though. And suggest God as “the ultimate cause” is necessary. You don’t, however, give any reason why we should call the ultimate cause God.
If you really give it some thought I’m sure you will realize that cause and effect are products of the way our universe is constructed. In a static universe nothing changes. There is no cause and effect because there is no cause. Thus no need for an ultimate cause. “God” is not necessary in the static universe. So it is possible to imagine a world without God in it.
By the way, if you are so convinced that you have already proved your point in another post, why not link to it? I can’t find the proof, at least not in any thread I have posted in.
K
Kitty_Chan
Guest
Ahh very good, lets seeHello,
George Washington didn’t write the Constitution, the Congress did. His signature appeared on it, but how do I know that it wasn’t forged. Congress probable just made up George Washington to bolster their claims of a new nation. Currency, paintings and statues are just artwork, not a living person - an artist’s imaginative work copied by future artists.
Parallel:
God didn’t write the Bible, but inspired it - George Washington didn’t write the Constitution but inspired it, particularly in using a presidential system rather than a monarch system. God did, though, physically write the two tablets containing the law given to Moses. And we can say that He signed the Bible with His approval when He guided the Councils that defined the Canon.
We have more than just paintings and statues of Jesus (though we have those, too). We have the Shroud of Turin and the Veil of Veronica that bear His likeness from His Blood. And we have:
O.K. Take two aspirins and call me in the morning.
ohhhh your asprins have inspired me! There would be doctors documents of George, showing his health and illnesses. So therefore he did exist.
K
Kitty_Chan
Guest
oops triple postings
K
Kitty_Chan
Guest
computers exist to annoy us sometimes
K
Kitty_Chan
Guest
Ahh very good, lets seeHello,
George Washington didn’t write the Constitution, the Congress did. His signature appeared on it, but how do I know that it wasn’t forged. Congress probable just made up George Washington to bolster their claims of a new nation. Currency, paintings and statues are just artwork, not a living person - an artist’s imaginative work copied by future artists.
Parallel:
God didn’t write the Bible, but inspired it - George Washington didn’t write the Constitution but inspired it, particularly in using a presidential system rather than a monarch system. God did, though, physically write the two tablets containing the law given to Moses. And we can say that He signed the Bible with His approval when He guided the Councils that defined the Canon.
We have more than just paintings and statues of Jesus (though we have those, too). We have the Shroud of Turin and the Veil of Veronica that bear His likeness from His Blood. And we have:
O.K. Take two aspirins and call me in the morning.
ohhhh your asprins have inspired me! There would be doctors documents of George, showing his health and illnesses. So therefore he did exist.
K
Kitty_Chan
Guest
Ahh very good, lets seeHello,
George Washington didn’t write the Constitution, the Congress did. His signature appeared on it, but how do I know that it wasn’t forged. Congress probable just made up George Washington to bolster their claims of a new nation. Currency, paintings and statues are just artwork, not a living person - an artist’s imaginative work copied by future artists.
Parallel:
God didn’t write the Bible, but inspired it - George Washington didn’t write the Constitution but inspired it, particularly in using a presidential system rather than a monarch system. God did, though, physically write the two tablets containing the law given to Moses. And we can say that He signed the Bible with His approval when He guided the Councils that defined the Canon.
We have more than just paintings and statues of Jesus (though we have those, too). We have the Shroud of Turin and the Veil of Veronica that bear His likeness from His Blood. And we have:
O.K. Take two aspirins and call me in the morning.
ohhhh your asprins have inspired me! There would be doctors documents of George, showing his health and illnesses. So therefore he did exist.
K
Kitty_Chan
Guest
hello mods! my puter went wacky can you please remove extra ones?? thank you very much
All these threads remind me of Moses when he was speaking to God and God asked him to remove his sandals because the ground was Holy.
Just because Moses was not aware of it didnt mean the ground was not Holy.
maybe this is something else but just because you think you may not exist doesnt mean its true. God knows your there even if you dont know Hes there.
All these threads remind me of Moses when he was speaking to God and God asked him to remove his sandals because the ground was Holy.
Just because Moses was not aware of it didnt mean the ground was not Holy.
maybe this is something else but just because you think you may not exist doesnt mean its true. God knows your there even if you dont know Hes there.
I
I_Leatherman
Guest
Is ‘static universe’ an oxymoron…
1
123rock
Guest
What all of you seem to misunderstand is that we’re not trying to prove anything or claim that something is probable, but what’s most reasonable.
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