Phone and Email

[TheAmazingGrace]

I couldn’t imagine giving anyone unrestricted access to my body and my emotions and NOT giving them unrestricted access to my email. Hubby and I share so much physically, emotionally, etc over the past 19 years of marriage, that’s there’s no way we’d draw a line at something as basic as email or each other’s phones.

Of course, neither of us is particularly inclined to go “snoop” either so it’s really not an issue at all and couldn’t imagine it becoming one.

For emergency access we do have all passwords (for “his” stuff, “my” stuff, “joint” stuff, and each kids “stuff”) on index cards in a special file.

A person’s body and emotions are still their own when they get married.

 

[chevalier]

Should a husband and wife give each other access to each others phone and emails?

Sigh. I usually don’t want to drag myself into a hypothetical, but so be it. The way I would feel about it:

I wouldn’t freak out when seeing my wife go through a box of old photos at the attic, learning more about my life, which was also her life at that point anyway. I wouldn’t mind her opening an envelope addressed just to me if she simply wanted to give me a call and relay the information that had just come in. I would probably want her to have my passwords just in case. I would probably sometimes ask her to check my mail for me. And not just my wife, but even my family members and friends sometimes.

I could multiply these examples to infinity. Say, I certainly wouldn’t mind my own wife checking out the balance on my separate account (i.e. not the big master account we kept together) just to know where we stand financially or where I stand (e.g. if concerned because I looked worried), but going through account history — or browser history for that matter — simply to satisfy her curiosity? No way.

And I wouldn’t do that either. It would be far beneath my dignity, if nothing else (and there are far better reasons that my dignity to not do that).

Someone expecting to get my passwords — for curiosity and for control — would be a different kettle of fish. I would probably have spotted such tendencies during engagement and before, and never married the woman. Or I would have expected her to make a serious, determined effort to work on those things (the decision and the effort matter more than the results; you can live with poor results if you see good-faith effort).

I would be understanding if she was simply insecure — that’s basically something like emotional flu or bronchitis or broken leg. It’s an illness that you can’t really help. Blaming the patient doesn’t assist recovery.

But if she was just trying to tweak the relationship dynamic to gain the upper hand, to informally become the managing partner in our proverbial partnership, that is to skew the relationship dynamic to benefit her and put her in control of the both of us, then I probably wouldn’t have married her. I wouldn’t have considered her marriageable. I would have put on my friend hat, distanced myself from the romantic thing, and tried to get my friend through that battle. Thereafter we could perhaps think about marriage. And perhaps not. I usually tend to end up unable to be attracted to my students or clients or some other form of charges and proteges. It would feel like dating a step daughter.

It would be the same as in the last paragraphs if she was simply acting out of curiosity. And by curiosity I don’t mean intellectual curiosity or desire to learn more about me, which is natural and perfectly all right, but something like going through my history to keep tabs on me. In fact, any such form of keeping tabs usually ends a relationship for me. It wouldn’t even get to the point of marriage. Or so I hope.

If I did end up, one way or the other, being married to someone acting like in the above negative examples, I would refuse to push her down the cliff and stand by as someone I loved degraded herself and her God-given human dignity (which comes from being created in His image and being loved by Him). Just like I wouldn’t watch idly if someone with lung cancer decided to smoke or someone with a bad liver decided to drink, especially someone I loved. Curiosity or lust for control as a vice is similar to any other vice or addiction or sin.

Hence, I would, among other things, end up denying requests for the same things as I would otherwise spontaneously feel like sharing (or granting or doing or whatever). In other words, I would normally be inclined to be an open book and have very little sense of separate property but just want to get some healthy solitude from time to time, but if I ended up with someone struggling with curiosity or control, then I would most certainly assert healthy boundaries. Giving in does not help them!

I would expect the same from someone I married. I would expect her to tell me and deny me if my demand was unjust, not to comply and encourage me as I walked off the cliff. This would be an essential quality in a woman I were to marry, and I would give up much to get it.

What if one refuses to do so even after questionable content (not very bad), was found?

Temptations — defeated, of course — happened even to Our Lord Himself when He became human. Venial sins happen to canonized saints. Most human beings of the so called ‘good Catholic’ subspecies struggle with a couple of vices.

Good, honest people are faithful to their spouses, not perfectly immune to everybody else. If I ‘discovered’ my wife was tempted, that would be nothing I hadn’t already known.

However, if I saw a danger of not realizing that she’s being infatuated with a different man, with some reasons to think it could get out of hand, I would warn her rather than allowing her to walk off the proverbial cliff. I generall warn people when I identify signs of being obliviously but visibly attracted to someone they have no business pursuing. I would hope for someone to give me such a warning if it was happening to me. This is part of our job as Christians, a sort of mutual obligation, even between strangers (not like two Christians can really be strangers to each other), but so much stronger in marriage.

 

[chevalier]

My husband and I have our own email account (in fact i have several personal and work related accounts) and phones and neither has access to the other. Nor do I want access to his and vice versa.

Exactly. It’s one thing if spouse A is open, a different thing if spouse B is snooping.

I wouldn’t really go checking my wife’s email or messages really…unless we’re booking flights or something with her email. We are open enough about our devices and stuff. We often just use each other’s phones, laptops etc. If either of us ever suddenly got secretive about our stuff then I’d be worried maybe (Unless it’s Christmas/birthday time) but for us it’s no big deal.

Either secretiveness or curiosity is trouble.

It more or less works like this:

A normal person doesn’t spy on one’s spouse. But a normal person does get worried about spouse being secretive.
A normal person doesn’t insist on much secrecy from one’s spouse. But a normal person is put off by spousal curiosity.

Balance is key. Outside balance there is vice.

I’ve been married over 25 years, and I have never met a single married couple who actually gave each other unrestricted access to one another’s emotions. If that were so, knowing when to bite one’s tongue would not be such an important part of a contented marriage.

I agree.

So do I.

A person’s body and emotions are still their own when they get married.

Sigh. I’ll be a bore, again. There’s Apostle Paul who says spouses are no longer on their own but belong to each other. And then there’s Pope John Paul II, who clarifies that there is no transfer of ownership is a strict sense, as in one can’t transfer or donate away one’s personality or one’s body (which are inalienable — alteri incommunicabilies, i.e. not transferable to another) in the same sense as if donating a car or a sum of money or even a piece of real estate.

Shunning visible signs of unity is one thing, but the unity between spouses is more of a spiritual nature and does not need extreme superficial manifestations in the physical world such as not allowing one’s spouse a separate toothbrush.

 

[CradleJourney]

I’ve been married over 25 years, and I have never met a single married couple who actually gave each other unrestricted access to one another’s emotions. If that were so, knowing when to bite one’s tongue would not be such an important part of a contented marriage.

Perchance we’re speaking of things in different context or with different cultural values? What I meant was he knows when I’m sad, glad, mad, ticked, frustrated, annoyed, tickled, bored, and so forth - I make no effort to pretend to feel something I don’t - and I couldn’t bear living with someone who wasn’t able to handle knowing how I feel.

Now he doesn’t speak emotions like I do, but I can tell fairly accurately from his body language what’s going on - it’s not that he’s limiting my knowledge of his emotions, he’s just not a talker.

Perhaps we’re just different, perhaps I’m just stating my intent badly.

 

[CradleJourney]

A person’s body and emotions are still their own when they get married.

Yes, they are - but (at least in my relationship) there aren’t any barriers between us either. As other posters mentioned, this whole thing is about trust - and if I’m going to trust this person with being totally intimate with me, then I’m certainly not going to object to his seeing an email I wrote.

 

[pianistclare]

Yes, they are - but (at least in my relationship) there aren’t any barriers between us either. As other posters mentioned, this whole thing is about trust - and if I’m going to trust this person with being totally intimate with me, then I’m certainly not going to object to his seeing an email I wrote.

+1

 

[EasterJoy]

Perchance we’re speaking of things in different context or with different cultural values? What I meant was he knows when I’m sad, glad, mad, ticked, frustrated, annoyed, tickled, bored, and so forth - I make no effort to pretend to feel something I don’t - and I couldn’t bear living with someone who wasn’t able to handle knowing how I feel.

Now he doesn’t speak emotions like I do, but I can tell fairly accurately from his body language what’s going on - it’s not that he’s limiting my knowledge of his emotions, he’s just not a talker.

Perhaps we’re just different, perhaps I’m just stating my intent badly.

The context is whether spouses “should” have total access to each other’s mail and phone.

Let’s get down to it, then: Does getting married mean giving up all expectation of privacy? A couple could do that, it is not forbidden, but let’s hope that no one expects this to be a universal expectation. It certainly should not be something anyone thinks they can prove is a reasonable demand.

 

[mommy_k]

My dh never asked to look at my phone or email, but if he asked that’s fine. I would ask him too, if I felt inclined to see his phone.

I think it’s rude to just pick up a phone and look through it. Same with my handbag. Nothing to hide but it’s just manners for us.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

My dh never asked to look at my phone or email, but if he asked that’s fine. I would ask him too, if I felt inclined to see his phone.

I think it’s rude to just pick up a phone and look through it. Same with my handbag. Nothing to hide but it’s just manners for us.

This question seems like a trap from the op. But I will chime in.
My wife and I have access and commonly use eachother’s devices, email, etc. we have to. Maybe the kids’ choir director has my wife’s email and the soccer coach has mine and practice is canceled etc. and with five kids perhaps one phone is in reach or charged and a quick picture needs to be taken etc.

BUT. There is something instinctive about someone else holding your phone and it making you antsy.! I find myself telling my wife where her phone is if she is googling George Michaels wiki on mine…

There have been time when my wife and I worked for the same employer that emails and work things had to be private and even secret. Even after we didn’t work together, there could be real legal issues if I had access to her work email.
More than one time gifts have been found out because of a text or an email!

But the op seems to be dealing with infidelities and to that I say that there is no amount of access that will satisfy a burned heart. E mail accounts are free, browser histories are deleted, Facebook accounts can be faked, and people can get more than one phone.
Just like haters, cheaters gonna cheat.

 

[mommy_k]

But the op seems to be dealing with infidelities and to that I say that there is no amount of access that will satisfy a burned heart. E mail accounts are free, browser histories are deleted, Facebook accounts can be faked, and people can get more than one phone.
Just like haters, cheaters gonna cheat.

Yes this is so true.

 

[AdamP88]

My dh never asked to look at my phone or email, but if he asked that’s fine. I would ask him too, if I felt inclined to see his phone.

I think it’s rude to just pick up a phone and look through it. Same with my handbag. Nothing to hide but it’s just manners for us.

I think there are different expectations and levels of privacy that people expect.I’d find it perfectly grand for my wife to use/look at my phone or email. I’m not a particularly private person. I come from a large family where we were always in each others faces. Privacy just isn’t high up in my list of important things.

However, if my wife started to question me in an accusing manner about certain phone contacts or something like that…I would be ticked off and I’d make that known to her.

 

[CradleJourney]

The context is whether spouses “should” have total access to each other’s mail and phone.

Let’s get down to it, then: Does getting married mean giving up all expectation of privacy? A couple could do that, it is not forbidden, but let’s hope that no one expects this to be a universal expectation. It certainly should not be something anyone thinks they can prove is a reasonable demand.

Bold mine - and my answer yes, it does for all practical purposes and that’s how my marriage works. Others obviously have a different view / type of relationship - I’m not in their shoes, so I can only speak for myself and what I “know” from my marriage.

 

[chevalier]

Bold mine - and my answer yes, it does for all practical purposes and that’s how my marriage works. Others obviously have a different view / type of relationship - I’m not in their shoes, so I can only speak for myself and what I “know” from my marriage.

Isn’t your answer at least a bit more clear-cut than your rationale warrants? Aren’t you referring to the practical realities of sharing voluntarily, as opposed to outright cancelling any right to privacy?

I hesitate to bring this comparison up, but privacy is a bit like marital relations in how neither party has a perfect right to make unilateral decisions, demands or refusals based solely on how he or she feels about the issue. Both ‘here and now’ and ‘only if I feel like it’ would be in the wrong, as each party gains the right to relations but neither party loses the right to not essentially be raped through blackmail.

It’s similar with privacy or personal space — shouldn’t keep secrets but shouldn’t snoop or pry either. Snooping or prying is against unity, as it puts a single party’s curiosity first, and that’s individualistic, not unitive.

 

[chevalier]

Since stuff like this keeps popping up indirectly over and over:

Spouse A just logging into Spouse B’s mail to see if there’s important information to pass on or act on is something that could be subjective balance subject to cultural and individual differences. Probably not unusual among people who are still on dial-up.

… But Spouse A inspecting Spouse B’s mail or phone to be in the loop on all conversations involving a person of the opposite sex, that’s not normal or healthy or right. It’s little different from having one’s spouse followed (except for financial cost). It’s jealousy and control tendencies, in urgent need of counselling. People need to overcome and help others overcome that sort of thing, not encourage it.

However, if my wife started to question me in an accusing manner about certain phone contacts or something like that…I would be ticked off and I’d make that known to her.

Not that I know you personally, but I think that just like most people you’d be ticked off at an earlier stage — suspicious or jealously curious checking would already be bad enough (hypothetically speaking of course).

 

[AdamP88]

Since stuff like this keeps popping up indirectly over and over:

Spouse A just logging into Spouse B’s mail to see if there’s important information to pass on or act on is something that could be subjective balance subject to cultural and individual differences. Probably not unusual among people who are still on dial-up.

… But Spouse A inspecting Spouse B’s mail or phone to be in the loop on all conversations involving a person of the opposite sex, that’s not normal or healthy or right. It’s little different from having one’s spouse followed (except for financial cost). It’s jealousy and control tendencies, in urgent need of counselling. People need to overcome and help others overcome that sort of thing, not encourage it.

Not that I know you personally, but I think that just like most people you’d be ticked off at an earlier stage — suspicious or jealously curious checking would already be bad enough (hypothetically speaking of course).

Perhaps, but I’ve never had an indication that my wife is suspicious or jealous. Every marriage is different. People have different expectations of privacy. My wife and I trust each other. I don’t think she expects to find anything suspicious on my phone and I don’t really care if she wants to look at emails that may be of importance to both of us.

Like I said, I don’t place privacy highly in the list of important things.

For the record, we have broadband in Ireland.

 

[chevalier]

Perhaps, but I’ve never had an indication that my wife is suspicious or jealous.

Yes, most people don’t, at least people in healthy relationships, which is why this is difficult for people to imagine, so they just say no privacy, everything is an open book etc., without considering even the possibility of actual invasive behaviour.

People have different expectations of privacy. My wife and I trust each other. I don’t think she expects to find anything suspicious on my phone and I don’t really care if she wants to look at emails that may be of importance to both of us.

I generally trust my family and friends with my passwords and mail etc., but it would be different if they made use of that access simply to satisfy their curiosity as opposed to legitimate use.

Like I said, I don’t place privacy highly in the list of important things.

I don’t really either, but I place jealousy and control on the not to do list. And probably quite highly.

Just like I don’t place etiquette high on the list, but actively showing disrespect or saying hurtful things is completely different from just not knowing the proper (or ‘proper’) form.

For the record, we have broadband in Ireland.

Picture or it didn’t happen.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Hubby and I know each other’s passwords and use each other’s stuff and it’s no big deal at all.

We trust the other one isn’t doing anything inappropriate.

We trust no one is snooping.

We trust that neither of us married an idiot and that if we were going to be inappropriate, we would use secret throwaway accounts anyway, so what’s the point of snooping?

That said, if my husband ever for any reason suspected me, I wouldn’t really have a problem with him “snooping” through my phone or email. I’m confident it would quickly put his mind at ease and prevent an awkward confrontation, hurt feelings, drawn out suspicion, marital strife, etc. I also don’t believe I’m necessarily entitled to private interactions with non family members of the opposite sex. Not that either of us has ever gone looking, but we aren’t opposed to it on some greater principle. And I certainly didn’t get married with an expectation of privacy or that anything would be mine and mine alone.

7 years of shared access and so far no issues of abusing access, so we must be doing something right.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Around Xmas and birthdays there’s always a warning to avoid an email or amazon account or to stay away from a certain browser. This year, I accidentally ordered his gift on his account, so I spent 4 days checking his email before he did to make sure there were no shipping updates with the item in the title.

 

[EasterJoy]

Bold mine - and my answer yes, it does for all practical purposes and that’s how my marriage works. Others obviously have a different view / type of relationship - I’m not in their shoes, so I can only speak for myself and what I “know” from my marriage.

This is something that couples are wise to work out before they marry. There isn’t a right answer, but there does need to be an agreed-upon answer, or there could be a lot of strife over it.

My husband is in a line of work where the communications are ethically and sometimes even legally protected, with many things he is forbidden from sharing with me. (We do use the old “I could tell you, but then I’d have to kill you” joke.) I have siblings who think they can go ahead and tell their spouses anything, but that is not the correct way of acting when you’re in a position of trust.

Chevalier, for instance, is an attorney. He simply could not give his spouse carte blanche to read all of his business communications, even if he wanted to. It would be unethical. She might have access for legitimate professional reasons, if she were working in his offices, but that would have nothing to do with her position as his wife. There are many other working situations where the staff would be very upset to find that their co-workers were giving their spouses unfettered access to privileged communications, even if it broke no laws and didn’t violate a specific written policy.

In other words, your spouse is not the only person in your life who trusts you. If your spouse trusts you to tell him or her everything, then no one else on the planet can hope to expect you to keep a confidence. I’m sorry, but that is just not right. There is no reason at all that married persons cannot endure the ordeal of not knowing everything their spouses know and realizing that their spouses keep some secrets even from them. It requires trust, but we all know trust is required, don’t we?

Having said that–of course spouses could agree to give each other all the access that their positions of trust with others allow them to give. I don’t see a problem with that. That is their choice.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Chevalier, for instance, is an attorney. He simply could not give his spouse carte blanche to read all of his business communications, even if he wanted to. It would be unethical. She might have access for legitimate professional reasons, if she were working in his offices, but that would have nothing to do with her position as his wife. There are many other working situations where the staff would be very upset to find that their co-workers were giving their spouses unfettered access to privileged communications, even if it broke no laws and didn’t violate a specific written policy.

We have a similar issue in our marriage. I have a work phone and work laptop he doesn’t touch, and he has a work laptop I stay away from. Mostly that’s for liability (I would feel terrible if I spilled wine on his computer). But we both have strict personal policies about signing into work accounts on personal devices and using work devices for personal stuff. I don’t even check CAF or my email on my work cell or computer. We are both very careful to have a work world and a real world, and the real world is what matters. It’s a privacy and boundaries thing. No one has ever kept too much personal stuff to themselves at work.