Photographs from 2005 Los Angeles Religious Education Conference

[JKirkLVNV]

AND…it’s still NOT about the TLM vs. MPVI, or the FSSP, or Cardinal Mahoney…it’s about you dumping on a grand old man.

 

[bear06]

Next fact, Traditional Catholics have more babies than Novus Ordo Catholics. Statistically, the Novus Ordo will just die out in time.

There’s a little snobbery. Only people who go to the Tridentine embrace the large family? The average amount of children in my rather large circle is about 7. Guess what? We all attend the “Novus Ordo”.There’s one Tridentine Mass in our diocese and another in a few dioceses over. There are not nearly as many families in those 2 combined. Besides that, some of the folks in our circle of “Novus Ordo” devotees are now having grandchildren and I’m pretty sure that they’ll be attending Mass with their parents.

Liberals will die out, no doubt here. The Novus Ordo, however, will not.

 

[bear06]

JKirkLVNV,

If I may share another fact with you? Bishop Vincent Malone was appointed by JP II. Here is more fruit of JP II’s legacy:
Bishops says let women hear confession and grant absolution
[

For goodness sake. I’ll see your liberal goof and raise you one SSPX bishop, Bishop Williamson, who thinks that “The Poem of the Man-God” is a great piece of work. Nevermind that it’s on the Index Librorum. Once again, it must be that Tridentine Mass (sarcastic remark).]("http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?[/QUOTE)

 

[Trick]

JKirkLVNV:

SHHHHHHHH!!! Don’t give 'em any ideas!

Technically, you may be right. I don’t know. Mass starts with the “In the Name of …” and ends with the “Thanks be to God” after “The Mass is ended, go in peace.”

I get that squirmy, “I’m-embarassed-for-you-and-all-your-ancestors” feeling when I see these pictures, I cannot imagine having to endure an actual performance.

I’m sorry I’ll wisper any such questions in the future !

 

[HagiaSophia]

JKirkLVNV:

AND…it’s still NOT about the TLM vs. MPVI, or the FSSP, or Cardinal Mahoney…it’s about you dumping on a grand old man.

Do you find it a it just a bit odd that when we hear the words of the two Great commandments, Love Thy God… and Love Thy Neighbor… that the person in our own century who lived them out before our very eyes to such an extraordinary degree is castigated for what he was not, rather than praised for what he embodied?

Too many I fear see “the church” as embodied by power, by authority, by administration rather than by what JPII was trying to tell us. It’s about Christ. It’s center is the Eucharist.

As I read some of the comments it brings to mind the rejection of Jesus by the theologians of His own ttime, He came in a way different from what they expected and so they “did not know Him”.

We had a pope living out the very definition of what the church speaks about as the essence of sainthood: a person who displays to an extraordinary and heroic degree the qualities of holiness and goodness and they know him not…

 

[HagiaSophia]

OrthoCath:

JKirkLVNV,

If I may share another fact with you? Bishop Vincent Malone was appointed by JP II. Here is more fruit of JP II’s legacy:

Well let’s look where this kind of logic takes you…

As a citizen of the US YOU are the government, YOU control the laws of the nation, how responsible are you personally for some of what is in office running things, whether locally, regionally or nationally?

It does help when trying to play the blame game to know a bit more about the process by which bishops are put into office. Plenty of disappointments, but plenty of winners too. I notice you didn’t mention a one of them.

It pays also to keep in mind that bishops, like the rest of us are human. They grow, in faith and in expertise as their tenure moves along. Like all humans, some are abysmal failures, some, (like most of us), do good things and then do not-so- good things. Others just have the right touch, do the right thing and as a man by the name of Eisenhower once commented, there are really no great men, there are just men who rise to extraordinary heights as they find themselves involved in great events.

I fear that at the end of my life, I shall not have approached a microdot of what Karol Wojtyla contributed to the world, to the church, to the recognition of Christian thought as a force in the world… How about you?

 

[JKirkLVNV]

HagiaSophia:

I fear that at the end of my life, I shall not have approached a microdot of what Karol Wojtyla contributed to the world, to the church, to the recognition of Christian thought as a force in the world… How about you?

I’m not worthy to fasten his cope!

Ah, Hagia, I love it when you show up!

 

[HagiaSophia]

JKirkLVNV:

I’m not worthy to fasten his cope!

Ah, Hagia, I love it when you show up!

Well bless you for that but you’ve been doing an outstanding job.

 

[Santa_Cruz]

Lisa4Catholics:

I love Mother Angelica and since God started that network I guess the angry Cardinal didn’t have much luck shutting it down

Reading this thread has reminded me of the problems that Saint Teresa of Avila had in her time.

I do believe that Mother Angelica and Saint Teresa of Avila would have been very good friends and support each other. Cardinal Mahoney on the other hand would be calling in the inquisition.:bigyikes:

 

[OrthoCath]

We had a pope living out the very definition of what the church speaks about as the essence of sainthood: a person who displays to an extraordinary and heroic degree the qualities of holiness and goodness and they know him not

We are going to have to agree to disagree. I don’t think JP II was a saint and I hope God has mercy on his soul. I appreciate the magnatitude of the position he held. I am thankful he dedicated his life to Christ. I am glad he tried as a Pope. In the end I think he was a failure and far from a saint. There is so much I disagree with that I don’t know where to begin. He tried to put his hand on dismantling Tradition as much as possible. He even changed the Rosary. He added mysteries that Mary could have never witnessed. He changed the way Popes are elected to make the process last as long as necessary. Thus, it opens the doors for more Liberal Popes in the future. He appointed people to high offices who had questionable past and where miserable in office. He was responsible for hundreds of “Wreckovation” and even contributed to some questionable Christian art. I could go on and on. But I don’t see the point of going down this road.

Let’s look at the present and the future and not the past. The present is that we have Bishops who have questionable Christian theology. We have a Mass that needs much Fixing. I am praying for the upcoming Eucharist Conference. It is reported that the Pope will lift the ban on the Traditional Latin Mass so that any priest can say it without a Bishop permission. Perhaps this will save the Church.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

OrthoCath:

In the end I think he was a failure and far from a saint. There is so much I disagree with that I don’t know where to begin. He tried to put his hand on dismantling Tradition as much as possible. **How did he attempt to dismantel tradition?**He even changed the Rosary. He added mysteries that Mary could have never witnessed. So you must feel the same way about the Prayer to Saint Michael that comes at the end of the TLM? In relative terms of the age of the Church, that’s practically an innovation (Leo XIII). He changed the way Popes are elected to make the process last as long as necessary. Thus, it opens the doors for more Liberal Popes in the future. This is a QUANTUM leap in logic! He appointed people to high offices who had questionable past and where miserable in office. WHO had a questionable past? I’ll ask that instead of asking you to reasonably look at the material (the men) he had to choose from. Who SHOULD he have appointed? Schismatics like Fellay and Williamson? It would have made as much sense to appoint the Ecumenical Patriarch as Cardinal Archpriest of Saint Peter’s Basilica! He was responsible for hundreds of “Wreckovation” and even contributed to some questionable Christian art. **What "wreckovations?"was the Pope responsible for? ** I could go on and on. But I don’t see the point of going down this road. I do. Besides, you’re the one who opened the “long road.” You can make good on your accusations against the memory of this great and holy man, who isn’t here to defend himself against what may well be calumny. For nearly 26 years, he carried a burden exceeded only by the Cross of Christ Itself. Let’s hear how YOU can justify sitting in judgement of HIM!

 

[bear06]

In the end I think he was a failure and far from a saint.

And if he’s canonized, will you be rejecting this?

He tried to put his hand on dismantling Tradition as much as possible.

Obviously you don’t really have a handle on Tradition. It can’t be dismantled but it would appear you don’t believe God’s promise to us on this issue.

He even changed the Rosary. He added mysteries that Mary could have never witnessed.

I’m sorry. Maybe I missed this. Did Mary ever say that we should only meditate on the parts of Christ’s life that she witnessed? Don’t you think she would be happy to have us meditate on even more of Christ’s life. I’ve got news for you. This isn’t the first change for the Rosary. For the life of me, I cannot understand why anyone would have a problem with this! What evil comes from it?

He changed the way Popes are elected to make the process last as long as necessary. Thus, it opens the doors for more Liberal Popes in the future.

I don’t even understand this statement. Would you care to elaborate. How exactly do you think the new election rules “open the doors for more Liberal Popes in the future”?

But I don’t see the point of going down this road.

Obviously you do because you did.

The present is that we have Bishops who have questionable Christian theology.

When have we not? This is where I’d have to say you are historically challenged.

It is reported that the Pope will lift the ban on the Traditional Latin Mass so that any priest can say it without a Bishop permission.

Any priest can say it now in private. I highly doubt that this will occur and I actually don’t think it should. I don’t think the Pope would ever allow a priest to not have to answer to his bishop. Now, it might happen that he would order his bishops to provide for more Tridentine Masses but I don’t see him allowing a priest to do anything against a bishops wish.

 

[Marian_Carroll]

This thread has now meandered into at least 2 or three other areas of discussion and therefore it is now closed. Those wishing to pursue the other subjects are free to initiate discussion threads in the proper sections of the forum.

Thanks to all who participated.