Physical affection in a long-term relationship

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GingerWarrior

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Here’s a brief background story: My boyfriend and I will be dating four years in March. I’m joining the Church this Spring and he’s learning more about it. We weren’t very religious for much of our relationship, and we were sexually active for a large part of it. Once we started getting serious about our faith last year, we decided to abstain. This lasted for 8 months. He and I both became very nonchalant in our faith, and we convinced ourselves that it would be okay to go back to having sex. After a few interventions from God and a serious re-evaluation of myself I told him that I wanted to make a commitment to stay chaste. It’s been about two months now.

Here’s the problem: He does not understand “where the line is” and what we’re “allowed to do” to show our physical affection. I was cuddling him on the couch yesterday while watching TV, and this became a huge deal. Honestly, I don’t know what’s “okay” and what’s not. I thought that as long as you weren’t violating God’s intention for sex, physical affection was okay (hugs, pecks on the cheek, etc). If I’m wrong, though, I need to know…

Also, I love him deeply and want the best for him. I’ve never been an intensely sexual person, but I am attracted to him. He is far more sexually frustrated than I am. He asked me if I’ve ever been tempted to masturbate like he has. I told him yes. This frustrated him again because he feels like I should tell him these things so I don’t “seem like a nun”. Separately from that, he misses making out. For both of these things, I told him that I did not want to risk tempting him, so I refrained from them. He told me that they wouldn’t. He told me that he feels like I’m not attracted to him any more.

I really don’t know how to respond to him. I love him dearly, but the confusion is making things difficult for us right now… I need advice.
 
I have to go to work, but if anyone replies I’ll be checking again tonight or tomorrow. I’ll be praying in the meantime.
 
Ginger, what things would you do if your parents were sitting in the room with you? This is a good guideline for you.

BUT, if even those things-- cuddling on the couch for example-- are things you would do with your parents in the room with you, you should not do them if they tempt your boyfriend to want more or to be sexually frusrated.
 
1ke said:
Ginger, what things would you do if your parents were sitting in the room with you? This is a good guideline for you.
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I can’t believe I didn’t think of that! When we talk about it again I’ll give him that guideline. He’ll probably ask why that’s the line rather than something else, though. What should I say if he does?

Edit: Also, I’ll tell him to let me know if those things cause lust or frustration. Luckily, he’s usually pretty open with me, so he’ll hopefully agree.
 
GingerWarrior said:
I can’t believe I didn’t think of that! When we talk about it again I’ll give him that guideline. He’ll probably ask why that’s the line rather than something else, though. What should I say if he does?
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Because this really is the line. Except for those who have completely lost their moral compass and are willing to act like Jersey Shore stars in front of their parents, friends, and strangers, our inner compass knows that the types of affection shown in public is really the correct way to act as a couple that is not married.

Holding hands, a chaste kiss on the cheek or lips, a hug that doesn’t linger overly long-- those are the types of boundaries you need to set to remain pure.

Also, if you really struggle with impurity or with crossing boundaries when alone, then do not be alone. Get an accountability partner and make sure you are with them. You should be in public or with another couple or person. Do not lay on the couch together, the bed together, be in the dark together, etc. You have already broken your pledge to chastity when you do these things and set both yourself and him up for temptation, frustration, AND mixed messages.

Let you yes mean yes and your no mean no. Your no cannot mean “maybe”.
 
GingerWarrior said:
Here’s a brief background story: My boyfriend and I will be dating four years in March. I’m joining the Church this Spring and he’s learning more about it. We weren’t very religious for much of our relationship, and we were sexually active for a large part of it. Once we started getting serious about our faith last year, we decided to abstain. This lasted for 8 months. He and I both became very nonchalant in our faith, and we convinced ourselves that it would be okay to go back to having sex. After a few interventions from God and a serious re-evaluation of myself I told him that I wanted to make a commitment to stay chaste. It’s been about two months now.

Here’s the problem: He does not understand “where the line is” and what we’re “allowed to do” to show our physical affection. I was cuddling him on the couch yesterday while watching TV, and this became a huge deal. Honestly, I don’t know what’s “okay” and what’s not. I thought that as long as you weren’t violating God’s intention for sex, physical affection was okay (hugs, pecks on the cheek, etc). If I’m wrong, though, I need to know…

Also, I love him deeply and want the best for him. I’ve never been an intensely sexual person, but I am attracted to him. He is far more sexually frustrated than I am. He asked me if I’ve ever been tempted to masturbate like he has. I told him yes. This frustrated him again because he feels like I should tell him these things so I don’t “seem like a nun”. Separately from that, he misses making out. For both of these things, I told him that I did not want to risk tempting him, so I refrained from them. He told me that they wouldn’t. He told me that he feels like I’m not attracted to him any more.

I really don’t know how to respond to him. I love him dearly, but the confusion is making things difficult for us right now… I need advice.
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I think the real issue is that you have been dating four years, and have had sex previously. That makes it very difficult to behave chastely.

In reality, such long courtships are not good. If two people are in love, it is going to be very hard to resist temptation that long.

There’s a reason that, back before premarital sex was so common, people tended to get engaged after 6 months of dating, and married within a year.

God Bless
 
bilop said:
I think the real issue is that you have been dating four years, and have had sex previously. That makes it very difficult to behave chastely.

In reality, such long courtships are not good. If two people are in love, it is going to be very hard to resist temptation that long.

There’s a reason that, back before premarital sex was so common, people tended to get engaged after 6 months of dating, and married within a year.

God Bless
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Yeah, we’ve discussed that. I don’t think we would have chosen this particular scenario in retrospect, but for the majority of our relationship, we were defining it by what the world expects and not what God wants. But we really want to be married so we’re pushing through.

We had another talk, and it all seems resolved. It’ll be tough, but we’re both dedicated to making it work. Going through RCIA makes it more difficult, since we feel like we should wait until we’re/I’m part of the Church to do the ceremony. But you Catholics will make us wait a year! 😛 Hahaha Talk about temptation! A whole year and a half of waiting!
 
GingerWarrior said:
Yeah, we’ve discussed that. I don’t think we would have chosen this particular scenario in retrospect, but for the majority of our relationship, we were defining it by what the world expects and not what God wants. But we really want to be married so we’re pushing through.

We had another talk, and it all seems resolved. It’ll be tough, but we’re both dedicated to making it work. Going through RCIA makes it more difficult, since we feel like we should wait until we’re/I’m part of the Church to do the ceremony. But you Catholics will make us wait a year! 😛 Hahaha Talk about temptation! A whole year and a half of waiting!
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If your boyfriend is Catholic, there is no reason for you to wait for RCIA to marry. If you are baptized, the marriage will still be sacramental.

The wait should only be 6 months for marriage.

God Bless and good luck!
 
bilop said:
If your boyfriend is Catholic, there is no reason for you to wait for RCIA to marry. If you are baptized, the marriage will still be sacramental.

The wait should only be 6 months for marriage.

God Bless and good luck!
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We’re both non-Catholics, but we’re both in RCIA. The parish that we attend requires a one year wait. :\
 
GingerWarrior said:
We’re both non-Catholics, but we’re both in RCIA. The parish that we attend requires a one year wait. :\
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Is this required by the diocese? Is this something you’ve discussed with the priest, or merely going on what others have told you is the general rule?

I’d push this further. Marriage is the perfect cure for sexual temptations, assuming you are with the right person of course.

I think 18 months of trying to remain chaste, in a relationship that was previously sexual, would be very hard. The frustrations could either drive you apart or drive you to commit serious sin. I’m not saying it’s impossible, but wondering if it’s really necessary.

As for advice on how to avoid/resist, this is very difficult since you are both used to a level of affection way beyond what you can show each other now. Any physical affection will naturally lead to another level and so on. So try to keep it to a minimum, along the lines of 1ke’s advice.
 
underacloud said:
Is this required by the diocese? Is this something you’ve discussed with the priest, or merely going on what others have told you is the general rule?

I’d push this further. Marriage is the perfect cure for sexual temptations, assuming you are with the right person of course.
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I agree with you on that 100%. The “one year” quote was from the parish’s website. The diocese website says “at least six months”. =\ I want to do things the right way, and if we had to, we would do it, but I really. REALLY. Would prefer to avoid an extra six months (on top of the minimum six). And I think it’s safe to assume that my boyfriend feels the same… I’ll have to talk to the priest.
 
GingerWarrior said:
I agree with you on that 100%. The “one year” quote was from the parish’s website. The diocese website says “at least six months”. =\ I want to do things the right way, and if we had to, we would do it, but I really. REALLY. Would prefer to avoid an extra six months (on top of the minimum six). And I think it’s safe to assume that my boyfriend feels the same… I’ll have to talk to the priest.
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I want to make sure I understand your situation properly. This is what I’ve taken from what you’ve said: 1) You have been living as husband and wife (with the exception of abstinence the last 8 months or so) for over four years. 2) You and your boyfriend are both in RCIA right now.

If both of these statements are correct I see no reason that you can’t be married in the Catholic Church at anytime (that is, without a 6 month restriction). In fact under those circumstances, one of the Deacons at my parish has been known on more than one such occasion to say, “Pick any Saturday morning at 9:00 am and I’ll be there to officiate.”
 
GingerWarrior said:
I agree with you on that 100%. The “one year” quote was from the parish’s website. The diocese website says “at least six months”. =\ I want to do things the right way, and if we had to, we would do it, but I really. REALLY. Would prefer to avoid an extra six months (on top of the minimum six). And I think it’s safe to assume that my boyfriend feels the same… I’ll have to talk to the priest.
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Do talk to a priest about this. I know a couple where the guy came into the Church on the Easter Vigil and they got married the following Saturday. He joked because he received five sacraments within a week’s time and thought that must be some sort of record. 🙂 So it may be possible to get the ball rolling even while you are in RCIA.

The sooner you talk to the priest, the sooner you’ll know.
 
Make an appointment with the Pastor of the Parish. You need to make your intentions known to the local Parish so that various steps of preparation and assurance can be done. These help to ensure that the couple understands the obligations and commitments of marriage. They are not there to hinder you. If you are serious in your preparation in RCIA and in joining the church together this Easter there should be no encumbrance to doing both marriage prep and RCIA simultaneously.

I am the lead facilitator for our RCIA program at my parish and if you were in my group I would have had you speaking with our Pastor a long time ago. I cannot nor can your leader(s) grant any process other that what is directed by the Pastor. However the Pastor is bound not by the web site but by his Bishop and even the Bishop can provide exceptions BUT he does not have to! The Bishop is in charge of his diocese and sets the guidelines as far as doctrine and cannon law allow. If he finds you fit to marry as soon as you are Baptized then he can do that.

The only way you will find out is by starting with your local Pastor! He is your Pastor and your Bishop is your Shepard even if you are unbaptized. They can be approached by you to receive counsel and guidance in the ways of the church. Feel free to speak with them about your issues openly.

There is no other person that needs to know any more details than what you choose to share or the Pastor requires that others know. The Roman Catholic Church is not a democracy, so the Pastor does not have to divulge to the RCIA or to anyone else that you may be granted a 5 month marriage preparation process. For all anyone else knows you approached him 7 months ago and he advised you to begin RCIA and during that time if you felt converted to the faith he would advise you to additional steps of preparation so that your marriage could be done as shortly after the Easter Sacraments as possible.

I will be praying for you and your future spouse with my RCIA catechumans and candidates. I pray that your struggle with temptation to sin (particularly sexually) is an easy battle for both of you as you prepare to join the Roman Catholic Church this Easter!

Blessings of Christ to you both!!
 
@ginger: Please, please get yourself and your boyfriend a copy of Christopher West’s Good News About Sex and Marriage, or JPII’s Love and Responsiblity. I think you will be glad you did. Once you see what the Church really views the complementarity of the sexes and the sexual act as, you will have a lot better handle on even asking a question like “what is too far”, which kind of misses the point.

I strongly disagree with marriage without any marriage prep. Both parties need to know and understand what the Church means and intends for marriage to be. If you have a disordered view of sexuality - - i.e., lustful attitudes - - marriage absolutely will not fix that. It will transform it from one kind of problem to another, albeit in some ways less serious one, but in some ways even more substantial. If your (generic you, not the OP personally) whole experience and development sexually did not emphasize the Church’s understanding of marital sex, and your whole experience is extramarital, contracepted sex and other sexual practices that are not fundatmentally ordered to the transmission of life, there is a high probability that this misunderstanding of sex will be carried over into the marriage. Such attitudes will be at odds with what marriage is intended to be, the complete giving of yourself to your spouse, in which we most closely image the trinitarian community of Persons that is God Who made us in His image.
 
When we were dating, we found a few times that we really needed to be more long distance. We lived an hour apart already and only saw each other once a week or less, but for a time, we dated only through phone calls and emails so we could avoid the ever present physical temptations.
 
As both are non catholics and as both wish to become catholics, it is necessary that both should learn what the Church teaches about marriage, its sanctity and indisolubility etc The priest will help and within a short time they can become catholics and get married in the Church.
Catholics who are in relationship are not expected to have physical relationship. The desire for full sexual relationship, that temptation is always there, but as one who loves Jesus, they should practice chastity till marriage.Even after marriage, the idea that the spouse is an object for pleasure should be avoided. The real love between wife and husband is divine and the union in one flesh is divine. It is necessary that the couple should bring the "Love" in their hearts in full measure to avoid the "Lust" that always makes the spouse as a mere tool for pleasure. Lot of prayer and willingness to abstain sometimes will help smooth friendship in marital life.
 
bilop said:
I think the real issue is that you have been dating four years, and have had sex previously. That makes it very difficult to behave chastely.

In reality, such long courtships are not good. If two people are in love, it is going to be very hard to resist temptation that long.

There’s a reason that, back before premarital sex was so common, people tended to get engaged after 6 months of dating, and married within a year.

God Bless
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Used to be rushed to marry. Plus legal divorce was nearly impossible. So you had a ton of terrible marriages.

Now people just have pre-marital sex. Divorce is common.

Looks like both of those ways have/had their downsides, though pre-marital sex is sinful obviously…😦
 
with regards to “underacloud”'s comments:
I’d push this further. Marriage is the perfect cure for sexual temptations, assuming you are with the right person of course.
I think 18 months of trying to remain chaste, in a relationship that was previously sexual, would be very hard. The frustrations could either drive you apart or drive you to commit serious sin. I’m not saying it’s impossible, but wondering if it’s really necessary.
As for advice on how to avoid/resist, this is very difficult since you are both used to a level of affection way beyond what you can show each other now. Any physical affection will naturally lead to another level and so on. So try to keep it to a minimum, along the lines of 1ke’s advice.

I think it’s a real danger to see Marriage as a cure for sexual temptations. Please DO read about Theology of the Body (or watch Freedom to Love by Christopher West) - it’s SO important to be prepared for your marriage well and not just jump into it to now be able to “legally” in God’s eyes indulge in the sexual act.

The 1 year RCIA will be a good training ground in your marriage preparation, especially in the school of learning to love the other person fully with a self-sacrificial Agape love (without the passions of the flesh muddying the water), and training oneself in self-mastery & discipline with the grace of God.

IF the 1 year engagement/preparation either drives you apart or drives you to commit serious sin - then this would be a good sign that you’re not ready for marriage, and better to end the relationship earlier, then to get married and divorced later on.

Think about it - if a couple can hardly control their passions now before marriage, and find themselves slaves to it (i.e. indulging in what I want whenever I want with whomever I want) - what’s most likely to happen when they’ve been married 3 years down the line, wife’s got 2 children and feels tired all the time and looks older and less attractive now, husband’s at work and feeling sexually frustrated as wife’s not up to it - secretary is young, beautiful, and attracted to married men?

The engagement is good training ground indeed, for a lifelong commitment of marriage that requires self-sacrificial love that is not easy, but totally worth it, as that’s what we were all made for.

Having said all that, this is just my opinion (that 1 year is a good time) - at the end of the day, find a good & holy priest who can also be your spiritual director, and in conversation with him, discern if 1 year is necessary, and maybe he may deem you both ready to join the Catholic Church sooner and enter into the sacrament of marriage sooner too.

Also read - www.chastity.com

God bless, Jeanne
 
genie79 said:
with regards to “underacloud”'s comments:
I’d push this further. Marriage is the perfect cure for sexual temptations, assuming you are with the right person of course.

I think it’s a real danger to see Marriage as a cure for sexual temptations.
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Actually, it’s a directly biblical viewpoint… “But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion. (1 Corinthians 7:9)”.

But note the important caveat when I said “assuming you are with the right person of course”.

I don’t necessarily disagree with the rest of your advice. A year seems like a reasonable timeframe…I just think 18 months is too long.
 
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