Physical Defense of the Most Holy Eucharist

[Le_Chiot_Noir]

In a nutshell, how far can or must one go in the physical defense of the Holy Eucharist?

For the long version, let’s start with the background of the asker; I am a cradle Catholic, but one only recently coming into the true fullness of the faith through the patient guidance of the Holy Spirit through my mother and my own self-education. The Real Presence and Transubstantiation are actually only fairly recent concepts to me, and the implications of the idea are staggering, to say the least. The Blessed Sacrament, the body and blood, soul and divinity of Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior Himself-- put in those words, my gut reaction to the thought of defending it is I would go very far indeed!

I am no great Bible scholar, and am still in the middle of reading of it from cover to cover, but what sticks in my mind most particularly is the instance of Judas Maccabeus leaping forward to slay a man about to deny God and Israel’s faith.

Today, we are most certainly not called to slay anyone in the Lord’s name-- another Scripture passage I remember clearly too is when Jesus defends his disciples for eating or working on the Sabbath, citing David’s eating the votive offerings; the footnote in my Bible says that no institution, no matter how sacred or holy, is more important than Man (did I get this right? It’s been a while).

But I was wondering if restraining someone about to desecrate the Eucharist would be out of line, perhaps by grabbing the arm, just getting in the way, or to a greater extreme, applying some practical martial arts knowledge to the situation. If that were uncalled-for, would throwing oneself over the Eucharist be a better alternative? Or grabbing it and consuming it oneself?

Part of what spurred these musings was all the unfortunate bruhaha a couple of months ago with the college student who ‘took the Host hostage’ (ooh, some wordplay there, haha), and the subsequent public threats of a very misguided university professor to desecrate a consecrated Host. I wished no harm to any party involved, but I could not help but feel that if I were present in a situation where the Host was in jeopardy of being profaned, I would leap forward and do… something.

Reflecting on my powerlessness and impotence, given the distance and situation, I likened (as others have, I later found to my comfort) the desecrations the Host has conceivably suffered over the years through the world’s bloody history to the God-Man’s own suffering and passion on the cross. Through such an unspeakable horror as defiling the very body and blood of the infinite and omnipotent God, grace abounded all the more for all of humanity; for every Host desecrated, so many, many more are received in grace, and this brings the mystical reality of the sacrifice on Calvary alive again and again and again and again…

Christ himself did not offer resistance to being treated so shamefully, even though, as God, he could have destroyed them all with a word. He did not even call any of his angels to do it, and when Peter leapt forward at one of the Pharisee’s servants with his sword, Jesus rebuked him, and put the servant’s ear back on.

… ah, ****. I think I just answered my own question. We must humbly and meekly accept what God allows to happen to Christ, in whatever form, just as He humbly and meekly accepted His own death in obedience, just as we must humbly and meekly accept our own crosses…

I’d still like to hear some of the thoughts regarding this, though, especially if there is anyone here who has had to actually deal with just such a situation, and not just speculate.

Is it enough to just stand back sorrowfully as someone breaks into Mass and takes the Host? Are we obligated to lay our lives down for it? May we punch someone in its defense?

 

[The_Otaku]

May we punch someone in its defense?

I would like to believe we can, but probably not.

One thing that crosses my mind is when satanists, witches, and warlocks get ahold of consecrated hosts to use in their black masses. Assuming we had gifts and could sense the evil in a person going up to receive communion, the and priest did somehow not see the person consume the host, and rather, they walked off with it, but we saw them not eat it, I’d want to stop them. Even if it caused a commotion and disrupted the mass. Even if you weren’t moved in the holy spirit to sense the presence of this warlock or witch, and you simply saw someone walk off with it, you’re supposed to stop them is what I’m thinking. It seems like the first mental reaction.

To imagine the horrible things those people put Our Lord through in Satan’s name and how they attempt to taint the host or corrupt it with their black magic, which, as we know, is futile.

God have mercy on people that do this stuff, be they actual servants of the devil or stupid professors or students trying to deliver as much shock value to their experiments, theories, or hypothesis as possible.

God bless them all!

I honestly am not educated enough on this topic to know what we have to do. All I can do is vent my frustration over this topic in the realization that Jesus would probably want us to pray for these people and forgive them, just as he would forgive them, assuming they were later moved to repentance.

But would I WANT to punch someone, or wrest the host from their hands? Definitely. I wouldn’t want to be violent, but I would want to stop them or make it so that others can stop them (hopefully the priest), like by yelling out "father, he’s walking out of the church with the host! Stop him!) and like a football player, father makes his way through the people and takes care of business. All joking aside, I’ve seen priests stop people from walking away with the host in their hand (he actually walked halfway through the church to stop them, and then, it seemed like he asked them to either consume it right then and there or give it back. I can’t remember what they did, but they walked off and he went back up to the alter area. It’s very rare, but I’ve seen it. I don’t want them doing what they’re planning on doing with it, if it turns out it’s evil. It’s entirely possible that a man or woman is trying to get the host to a crippled person in a waiting car or something, for example, but they should bring that person in the church, or let father come to them, which he should be happy to do. Or, have a priest go to their home to give it to them, which a priest should also be able to do. There are options for getting Our Lord to the people which don’t require walking off with the host. If you’re walking off with the host it’s suspicious. Just bring the people in or have father come to them right then and there, or have him come later to their home if he is able. You’ll notice I didn’t mention eucharistic ministers, because I personally don’t believe we should have them and that only the priest should be handling and dispensing Our Lord.

Anyways, what I want and what Jesus will allow and what I should allow because he allows it is something else. We just have to believe they’ll get what’s coming to them, rather than wishing they get what’s coming to them. Leave it to God is what my heart says and it’s what I physically decide on. But my mind says defend the host!

 

[Le_Chiot_Noir]

You’ll notice I didn’t mention eucharistic ministers, because I personally don’t believe we should have them and that only the priest should be handling and dispensing Our Lord.

That’s too bad, because I was thinking of becoming one myself, haw haw! Seriously though, I have to learn what the process and principle is for that ministry first before I can weigh in on that, but I do agree that the priesthood is a very dignified office by the very nature of his duties and expectations.

In the meantime, thank you for replying, so now I at least know I’m not alone in my instinctive emotional reaction. Let’s pray together to the King of Peace for the strength not to tackle one of His dearly beloved children.

 

[The_Otaku]

That’s too bad, because I was thinking of becoming one myself, haw haw! Seriously though, I have to learn what the process and principle is for that ministry first before I can weigh in on that, but I do agree that the priesthood is a very dignified office by the very nature of his duties and expectations.

I didn’t always think this way, because when you’re a kid or teen you don’t really think about the real presence of Our Lord in the host. You sort of go through the motions, and, in so doing, treat it like a normal wafer or host. You don’t fully appreciate the power that is there or the presence until you become more spiritual and grounded in your faith.

The Church may allow eucharistic ministers for obvious practical reasons alone: there are too many people and not enough priests that masses and communion lines become clogged and the whole thing becomes cumbersome for the priest. So the ministers are there to aid the father in his duty. It may even be that God performs a miracle in every mass all the time where there are eucharistic ministers involved, so as to compensate for their personal sin and sin nature, so that it is as if the person were receiving from the priest, in lieu of him.

Personally, it makes me uncomfortable. I avoid the eucharistic ministers when I can, and only receive from the priest, even if this means a slight hold up in the line because a eucharistic minister is available to serve another person (which would be me since I’m next in a line that forks off towards the priest or the minister, but the priest still is serving a person yet I choose him over the minister).

I know the nature of God or presence of God doesn’t change in the host depending on whom is administering it, but for me it’s an issue of knowing a lay person is giving something so precious as Our Lord to me. I don’t think a lay person is in the same spiritual or religious status or nature to perform the duties of a priest. I know they take classes, and I’m sure some of them are holy people, but even so, it doesn’t make me feel any better. There’s also the issue of those eucharistic ministers who get into this ministry for reasons of pride, status within the church community, and/or so they can feel privileged when they may very well have no respect for Our Lord, don’t believe in the presence, and just want to stand up on the alter or wherever so they feel important.

Rather than getting tangled in the what ifs of all that, I just choose to take communion from the only one I know for sure has the duty to, and that is the priest. And even some priests don’t touch the eurcharist. They respect it so much they use a spoon to transfer it about, never actually laying hands on it. Some think that’s overboard, and I’m not saying it is or it isn’t, but I can respect that even a priest would go that far.

A priest once pulled me aside after mass and asked me directly if I would become a eucharist minister, seeing as how I attend mass regularly and he notices me, and I seriously considered it but didn’t do it.

That was at my old parish. My new parish is an old mission church, with traditional, conservative priests (thank God) and the mass is all done in a traditional way and certain things aren’t allowed in this church that you could probably get away with in other churches. Fortunately for me, there is the old railing where you kneel down to receive (I receive on my tongue, FYI), and I’m happy about that. There are no eucharistic ministers at this church or at least involved in the masses, there are only alterboys, there is no “teen mass” here and guitars and drums and all this singing like it’s american idol and it’s a band instead of a choir and we’re at some live concert during a MASS.

Here, there is no music most of the time, only singing from the missals/etc, not songs made up by the would-be band…err choir, and last, but certainly not least, the Tabernacle is in the CENTER, not pushed off to the side of the alter and the priest does the consecration facing Our Lord, with his back to the people, not facing them and his back to Our Lord.

I could go on and on about what’s right about this church and how God blessed me with the knowledge of it’s existence, but it would get me farther and farther from the topic at hand, I’m afraid. I also ranted a bit there, my apologies.

In the meantime, thank you for replying, so now I at least know I’m not alone in my instinctive emotional reaction. Let’s pray together to the King of Peace for the strength not to tackle one of His dearly beloved children.

You’re welcome. I’m sure there are many more than you or I who at least feel this way on the inside. It’s a thought I often don’t think about, but when it comes up in conversation, like it did here with your topic, it gets me to thinking.

 

[Antrim]

I am an Usher at my church and we stand up at the Alter during Communion to make sure that this does not happen.

One Easter Sunday I did have to tell a young lady to put The Host in her mouth as she was walking off with it in her Hand.

A couple of times I had to ask kids to put The Host in their mouth.

Another time someone left The Host sitting on a Table in the Foyer and we found it after Mass. We told one of the Deacon’s and he took IT. and put it back in the Tabernacle.

So I have personally witnessed it.

Antrim

 

[The_Otaku]

I am an Usher at my church and we stand up at the Alter during Communion to make sure that this does not happen.

One Easter Sunday I did have to tell a young lady to put The Host in her mouth as she was walking off with it in her Hand.

A couple of times I had to ask kids to put The Host in their mouth.

Another time someone left The Host sitting on a Table in the Foyer and we found it after Mass. We told one of the Deacon’s and he took IT. and put it back in the Tabernacle.

So I have personally witnessed it.

Antrim

You think that’s bad? I’ve actually seen a Host ON THE FLOOR. It was on the floor, beneath a pew/kneeler, and I noticed it when mass was over and hardly anyone was still there. I’m assuming some kid didn’t swallow it, and instead played with it and left it there. I cannot imagine a grown adult, teen, or even a well-knowing kid doing something that horrible. We put our feet down there, and the dirt from our shoes, and Our Lord was down there…

 

[CatsAndDogs]

You think that’s bad? I’ve actually seen a Host ON THE FLOOR. It was on the floor, beneath a pew/kneeler, and I noticed it when mass was over and hardly anyone was still there. I’m assuming some kid didn’t swallow it, and instead played with it and left it there. I cannot imagine a grown adult, teen, or even a well-knowing kid doing something that horrible. We put our feet down there, and the dirt from our shoes, and Our Lord was down there…

You have to remember, what was done to the body of Christ by the Romans?

They “knew not what they did”, remember.

The important part is not that the Host was abused, which it was, but that we need to pray for those who did so, and be respectful with the “Body” we find in it’s inappropriate place.

Peter was disabused from further messing about with his sword, remember?

 

[Le_Chiot_Noir]

Thanks, you guys, I knew it was mostly my most probably inordinate attachment to violence and martial affairs that even made me contemplate it, but it’s nice to know that there’s not some minutae of protocol I’m missing. Peace it is then, and the Lord’s peace be unto all of us~

 

[thistle]

I didn’t always think this way, because when you’re a kid or teen you don’t really think about the real presence of Our Lord in the host. You sort of go through the motions, and, in so doing, treat it like a normal wafer or host. You don’t fully appreciate the power that is there or the presence until you become more spiritual and grounded in your faith.

**The Church may allow eucharistic ministers **for obvious practical reasons alone: there are too many people and not enough priests that masses and communion lines become clogged and the whole thing becomes cumbersome for the priest. So the ministers are there to aid the father in his duty. It may even be that God performs a miracle in every mass all the time where there are eucharistic ministers involved, so as to compensate for their personal sin and sin nature, so that it is as if the person were receiving from the priest, in lieu of him.

Personally, it makes me uncomfortable. I avoid the eucharistic ministers when I can, and only receive from the priest, even if this means a slight hold up in the line because a eucharistic minister is available to serve another person (which would be me since I’m next in a line that forks off towards the priest or the minister, but the priest still is serving a person yet I choose him over the minister).

I know the nature of God or presence of God doesn’t change in the host depending on whom is administering it, but for me it’s an issue of knowing a lay person is giving something so precious as Our Lord to me. I don’t think a lay person is in the same spiritual or religious status or nature to perform the duties of a priest. I know they take classes, and I’m sure some of them are holy people, but even so, it doesn’t make me feel any better. There’s also the issue of those eucharistic ministers who get into this ministry for reasons of pride, status within the church community, and/or so they can feel privileged when they may very well have no respect for Our Lord, don’t believe in the presence, and just want to stand up on the alter or wherever so they feel important.

Rather than getting tangled in the what ifs of all that, I just choose to take communion from the only one I know for sure has the duty to, and that is the priest. And even some priests don’t touch the eurcharist. They respect it so much they use a spoon to transfer it about, never actually laying hands on it. Some think that’s overboard, and I’m not saying it is or it isn’t, but I can respect that even a priest would go that far.

A priest once pulled me aside after mass and asked me directly if I would become a eucharist minister, seeing as how I attend mass regularly and he notices me, and I seriously considered it but didn’t do it.

That was at my old parish. My new parish is an old mission church, with traditional, conservative priests (thank God) and the mass is all done in a traditional way and certain things aren’t allowed in this church that you could probably get away with in other churches. Fortunately for me, there is the old railing where you kneel down to receive (I receive on my tongue, FYI), and I’m happy about that. There are no eucharistic ministers at this church or at least involved in the masses, there are only alterboys, there is no “teen mass” here and guitars and drums and all this singing like it’s american idol and it’s a band instead of a choir and we’re at some live concert during a MASS.

Here, there is no music most of the time, only singing from the missals/etc, not songs made up by the would-be band…err choir, and last, but certainly not least, the Tabernacle is in the CENTER, not pushed off to the side of the alter and the priest does the consecration facing Our Lord, with his back to the people, not facing them and his back to Our Lord.

I could go on and on about what’s right about this church and how God blessed me with the knowledge of it’s existence, but it would get me farther and farther from the topic at hand, I’m afraid. I also ranted a bit there, my apologies.

You’re welcome. I’m sure there are many more than you or I who at least feel this way on the inside. It’s a thought I often don’t think about, but when it comes up in conversation, like it did here with your topic, it gets me to thinking.

I guess you mean Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion (EMHC’s). They are NOT Eucharistic Ministers. Only the priest is a Eucharistic Minister.

 

[The_Otaku]

I guess you mean Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion (EMHC’s). They are NOT Eucharistic Ministers. Only the priest is a Eucharistic Minister.

Well, I’ve always known then to be called Eucharistic Ministers (perhaps it was an abbreviation people used), so thanks for the clarification. Their title doesn’t change how I feel about having them, however.

 

[rwoehmke]

Accurate as it might be, EHMC is a mouth full and except on the forums, I have rarely heard them referred to as anything, but “distributors.”

 

[marymol]

Interesting topic - esp. considering the violence against The Church in many areas …

Would it be prudent for The Church , in places such as old Rwanda or even India , when they become aware of increasing hostilty , to have an ’ army’ of lay brethren , to be ready for self defense …an army well trained in the basics of faith and primarily as spiritual warriors but who could also be ready against attackers …

There is the incident in The Passion when our Lord Himself asks the disciples about weapons …and St.Peter was the one to respond ( I do not know the deeper and traditional theological meaning of the whole incident - then again as the Living Word , it may be something that speaks to each generation …) In our Lord’s time , it could have warned the Apostles that there is serious danger awaiting and to be ready - by watching and praying too …and did our Lord want His disciples to be spared from the angry mob , since in such circumstances , the mob mentality can take hold …

One strike by St.Peter -the show of some brute force followed by a magnificent episode of mercy of miraculous healing ( which is what truly showed the powerlessness of the mob !) - may be the last call for Judas, to open his eyes …eyes that had by now totally become focused on the self - its plans …failures …

The many who are unemployed , in the countries of Africa, Asia , Middle East - for them to be hired and trained as the Army for the New Evangelisation , to realise the hopes of our Great Pope John Paul 11 for greater role of the laity … in all such needs of The Church - is it time for such measures …

This , to protect the wicked from running rampant in their hateful passions - for their own sake too ..thus it can be an act of mercy   towards  the enemy ....

There are the Nepalese Gurkhas , legendary for their faithfulness to what they are to guard …good role models even , atleast in that part of their lives …

And may be the passion of The Church to defend the Holy Eucharist would enlighten and encourage the hearts of many , to be more vigilant in guarding our own hearts and minds , esp. the lives of God’s little children , with more ardour …after all, our Father cares for same too …deeply …

Shalom !