Physical relationship between non-married couple

  • Thread starter Thread starter thememphisman
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
T

thememphisman

Guest
i know this is a question that has been asked a thousand times so i just wanted to ask again but within a more specific context.

my girlfriend and i have been dating for nearly three years, we have talked many times and prayed over this many times and both feel that we are called to marriage to each other. we are going to wait until we are seniors in college (currently sophmores) to get engage and then get married in the summer after we graduate.

what is the appropriate level of our physical relationship. i ask this bc in recent times when we kiss there has been a bit more “thrusting” by the both of us. we are both fully clothed and absolutely will not engage in sex before marriage (and of course we believe that includes oral and mutual masturbation). we are very responsible and truthfully want to be giving of our selves and not selfish seeking pleasure.

my specific question is this: with the intention to of self-giving and not selfishness, with being more concerned with sharing our love in a physical manner instead of “trying to reach some new physical level”, when we kiss, the “thrusting” (by that i mean our genitals rubbing against each other while laying on top of each other, fully clothed, so it is really only the top of our jeans touching), is that morally permissible.

i could see it as not a mortal sin, but perhaps something to watch out for bc it could lead to worse sins. thanks for any help
 
short answer there is no permissible physical exchange of affection before marriage beyond that which would be appropriate with a friend or family member, because what begins with passionate kissing ends either in temptation that is nearly impossible to resist or needless frustration. Get married if you are ready for this level of physical intimacy. What is there about remaining single that will facilitate your completing school faster?
 
You are going way, way to far, and you already know this deep down.
 
thememphisman said:
my specific question is this: with the intention to of self-giving and not selfishness, with being more concerned with sharing our love in a physical manner instead of “trying to reach some new physical level”, when we kiss, the “thrusting” (by that i mean our genitals rubbing against each other while laying on top of each other, fully clothed, so it is really only the top of our jeans touching), is that morally permissible.
Click to expand...
No, this is not morally permissible. It’s easy to get to this point and Saint Paul tells us that it is better to get married than to enter this kind of sinful behavior. The attraction is very strong and so you guys need to either get married sooner or avoid that kind of closeness. I know how hard that can be. But God is calling us to chastity and we all fail at times in different respects but we must continue to fight the battle with prayer and perseverence. You are in my prayers. God bless… teachccd
 
It does rather sound like you’re getting to the point of being sexual even if you’re keeping your clothes on since the experience is getting rather ‘bodily’ rather than simply affectionate.

I won’t condemn you for it (since I am not entitled to!), but I will say that it’s now at the level where you might find that you give in, bit by bit, to more and more temptation as you get more and more excited and at some point you’ll both say “to heck with it” and throw caution to the winds and then… well, you’ll end up in the Confessional.

If you want to stick to what the Church expects of you, I think you need to dial down the heat a little!
 
No one may NOT do such! Such is getting into directly stimulating things…only permitted for married couples…leading then to marital relations.

As you describe it (and I think too descriptive for this forum) it would seem to be a grave matter for mortal sin… So do not do such! and perhaps consider if you need confession…

Need to really tone it down…you are not married …

no laying on top of each other at all…(or even with each other…such too is not a thing to do in your state)

Even kissing needs to be modest and chaste…not passionate…or too prolonged…

This may help: ewtn.com/expert/answers/dating.htm

(I would twique it somewhat for example …under pure intent …I would note that the person may have already sinned once they start to “enjoy or desire”…if they have started to consent…but anyhow it is a pretty good overview)
 
As an old guy who has been around the block, I can say that at this stage in your marriage plans you should be kissing each other in the same fashion as you would kiss a parent or a sibling; that’s affectionate. Going much beyond holding hands and affectionate kisses is only to torture each other with desire for something that you are not yet entitled too. You are playing around on the edge of a precipice and as two plus years passes it isn’t going to get easier to resist. It just isn’t in the nature of human beings. You are essentially tasting the fruit before it is ripe and doing so usually results in the fruit spoiling before it is ripe. 👍
 
puzzleannie said:
short answer there is no permissible physical exchange of affection before marriage beyond that which would be appropriate with a friend or family member,
Click to expand...
While I agree that the OP and his girlfriend are going too far with their dry humping if they intend to remain chaste, this is ridiculous. I’m supposed to marry someone I have never kissed in a way I wouldn’t kiss my brother?
 
The Church teaches very clearly no touching of any kind below the Neck and no french kissing. That is resereved for marriage. Like the O P said one thing leads to another and before you know it you have gone to far.
Pray to God and Our Blessed Mother to keep you pure and say three Hail Marys every day to keep you pure in thought word and deed. Go to frequent confession and Holy Communion.

Antrim
 
Antrim, got a quote from the Catechism to back that up?

I mean seriously… people who are dating or engaged are not allowed to hug? Their bodies would touch below the neck. Put arms around waists? Hold hands? And no french kissing… no one would get married under these conditions. Even the Victorians thought hand-holding and hugs were OK… jeez.

And BTW, you are not a priest and I am not your pentitent. You have no right to command me which prayers to say or how many times. What do you know about my purity? I’m married and enjoy a robust physical relationship with my husband. I’m as pure as I need to be in this respect.
 
I don’t agree with this or follow it, but according to the Church, I think, but if you want to remain chaste, you must keep physical affection VERY limited. hugging and light kissing are probably ok, but you mention “thrusting” Bottom line: If you are getting physically sexually aroused, you need to stop. I think your best bet is also to get married fast. I know a lot of Catholic couples who get married quite soon after meeting each other.
 
slywakka250 said:
I think your best bet is also to get married fast.
Click to expand...
Oh man… seriously?! Yeah, don’t take any time to discern or anything, to get to know the person. Just rush it so you can have sex. And we wonder why the divorce rate is so high? :mad:
 
Sorry folks, I gotta agree with Zeemeermin on this one.

I’m seeing comments like “hugging and light kissing are probably okay” (which I guess implies that maybe they are not okay) and “The Church teaches very clearly no touching of any kind below the Neck and no french kissing”

“Purity” is one thing. Advocating that we rarely touch, hug, etc., someone we may be planning on marrying is a totally, totally different story. Someone who is scared to death to touch a person of the opposite gender, for fear of committing a mortal sin, can look forward to a very lonely life.

Hey, folks, being in love is SUPPOSED to “get your blood going a bit.” That doesn’t mean we go right to sex…but someone who expects to rarely hug, kiss like they’re kissing their grandma, etc., is not going to appear “devout,” theyre going to appear cold, uninterested, milquetoasty, and/or maybe more than a little “off.” Are we supposed to get sexual? No. But there’s nothing wrong with wanting to be sexual and letting our partner know we might want that ONE DAY. If we don’t, we risk that our dating partners decide we are uninterested…because we certainly appear uninterested if we have that way.
 
Outstanding post VonDerTann. You said what I was trying to figure out how to say. Heat is part of marriage, and it needs to be there, and you need to know that before you marry.

Can I just say I love your word “milquetoasty?” Not only spelled correctly and used well in context, but in a form I’ve never seen before! I love language, and masters of it, and you just earned a lot of points, buddy. 👍
 
Lets start out by taking the sixth commandment which forbids I say forbids all words looks or actions contrary to holy purity. The Ninth forbids all impure thoughts and desires willfully entertained or concented to.
Father Chad Ripperger gives a very detatiled talk on this and explaines it in detail and it is taken from the Catechism and Church teaching.
The problem is that people are using excuses to justafy their wrong doing by saying no one would get married if they stuck by the rules. That is not the point. If we want to go to Heaven we must obey the ten commandments.
I will never forget what a priest said at a retreat I was at many years ago and he was talking about sins of the flesh. He asked this question. Where do you think you would go if you were having intercourse and you are not married and you died at that moment?
If anyone is commiting any kind of mortal sins of impurity and they die at that moment. Where do you think they are going to go?
French kissing is a symbol of sex and is forbidden and for married people only.
Antrim
 
In other words, you don’t have one. You have the opinion of a couple of priests and your own interpretation of two Commandments.
 
That is not my own interpratation . That is from the Catechesm as I was taught. There are more people in hell because of sins of the Flesh than all other sins combined. If you dont listen to the priest Who do you listen to? He is Christs reprasentative on earth Christ did give him the power to forgive sins. Like Father said in his homily the other week. We have people who claim they love God but they do not go to Mass on Sunday. I love Him but I am going to do what I want. Christ said if you love me you will keep my Commandments. Bottom line.
Tune into EWTN and listen to Father John Caropi. He says it like it is wheather you like it or not.

Antrim
 
Antrim said:
That is not my own interpratation . That is from the Catechesm as I was taught. There are more people in hell because of sins of the Flesh than all other sins combined. If you dont listen to the priest Who do you listen to? He is Christs reprasentative on earth Christ did give him the power to forgive sins. Like Father said in his homily the other week. We have people who claim they love God but they do not go to Mass on Sunday. I love Him but I am going to do what I want. Christ said if you love me you will keep my Commandments. Bottom line.
Tune into EWTN and listen to Father John Caropi. He says it like it is wheather you like it or not.

Antrim
Click to expand...
With respect, you have no idea how many people are in Hell or why they are there. Also, there is certainly no definitive commandment on French kissing between engaged couples. There are many (and probably the majority) of Priests who would not council engaged people that this is mortal sin. Does that necessarily make them right, since they are also Christs representative?

We are to remain in communion with God and everyone should discern carefully and prayerfully. but I don’t believe there is infallible teaching to this level.

If you have questions about behavior, it’s certainly valuable to talk to a Priest who can help you understand the why.
 
Zeemeermin said:
Oh man… seriously?! Yeah, don’t take any time to discern or anything, to get to know the person. Just rush it so you can have sex. And we wonder why the divorce rate is so high? :mad:
Click to expand...
Exactly. This is typical, Puritanical, let’s-see-sin-in-everything-stlye thinking that has plagued mankind for centuries.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top