physical sufferings

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Do you, as non-Catholic, believe that our physical sufferings can be as the result of our sins? Note: this does not imply that every sickness is related to your sins.

PS: Catholics are also encouraged to answer.

Thanks.
 
define physical sufferings

what is beyond your control is not because of your sins, possibly sins of mankind ie poor surgeon

what is in your control, of course.
 
water said:
That is even better. Thank you for asking. 🙂
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Cool 🙂 and thanks!

I am Catholic and I think that even though I have been forgiven my sins (by Christ and as evident by faith, baptism, and sacramental penance) that I am not forgiven the consequences of those sins.

As an example. Prior to taking my Christian faith seriously I dove head first into the pool of sexual sin for many years. The destructive nature of those sins were evident long after I stopped the behavior and was forgiven the actions. The repercussions of those actions still kept coming and coming. This is a direct result of sin, even though forgiven.

Hope that’s what you’re asking about.
 
Kitty_Chan said:
define physical sufferings

what is beyond your control is not because of your sins, possibly sins of mankind ie poor surgeon

what is in your control, of course.
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I’d like to discuss on both cases - beyond your control and within your control. However, we are not discussing about the sufferings that we mean to cause harm to ourselves; for instances, cutting yourself, alcoholics, drug addictive, etc …
 
b_justb said:
Cool 🙂 and thanks!

I am Catholic and I think that even though I have been forgiven my sins (by Christ and as evident by faith, baptism, and sacramental penance) that I am not forgiven the consequences of those sins.

As an example. Prior to taking my Christian faith seriously I dove head first into the pool of sexual sin for many years. The destructive nature of those sins were evident long after I stopped the behavior and was forgiven the actions. The repercussions of those actions still kept coming and coming. This is a direct result of sin, even though forgiven.

Hope that’s what you’re asking about.
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That’s one of the cases and thank you for your faith. It is not easy for everyone to say what you have said.

God bless.

What do you think about those who were born with illness? Could anyone of them have suffered this because of the sins of their ancestor?

How about those who were so healthy and all of a sudden, they are very sick? Could anyone of them have suffered because of their past and current sins?
 
hmmm - maybe to an extent we can certainly cause illness to ourselves. (and we are not discussing original sin)

For example: if I am a heavy drinker, then I may fall to cirrhosis etc.

If I am a smoker, I may get a plethora of illnesses.
Sexually promiscuous, then I may end up with an incurable illness.

But if you are talking like a brain cancer or some other illness outside our control, then no. Not a direct result of our personal sin. God does not punish us.
 
jrabs said:
But if you are talking like a brain cancer or some other illness outside our control, then no. Not a direct result of our personal sin. God does not punish us.
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I think I should narrow down to this point you have made so that we can be more focusing on our discussion.
 
water said:
What do you think about those who were born with illness? Could anyone of them have suffered this because of the sins of their ancestor?

How about those who were so healthy and all of a sudden, they are very sick? Could anyone of them have suffered because of their past and current sins?
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I see Sin as two distinct things.
  1. Ancestral Sin, AKA Original Sin: This is a condition that we have by simply being human. We are born with this condition of non-perfection. We are separated from God due to this condition. Anything we may have (birth defects) or have predisposition to (drug abuse, alcoholism, homosexuality) is a symptom of this condition. So in that sense; Yes every malady we as humans have at birth or later in life is due to Sin.
  2. Sins are also any action that is not in the Will of God. AKA Sins of omission or sins of commission. These are things we actually do by our own free will. It’s this category where in your question I think many say, No God does not punish us, and where I point to the not being forgiven repercussions of sins in the past.
Sacred Scripture gives us several examples of Sin being the cause of maladies in various people. When we look at the Torah and the people of Israel nodding through to the promise land it is rife with people being struck with illness and death because of their sins. David lost a son to death because of his sin of adultery. Ananias and his wife Sapphira were struck dead because of their untruthfulness in their giving to the Church of St. Peter’s day. St. Paul says directly that people get sick and die because they disrespect the Body and Blood of our Lord in worship. Though I am most skeptical whenever I hear people go on about being afflicted by God with whatever illness, I am also a person that says, “Hey, it happened then why not now?”

However, I have not been able to reconcile these passages from Scripture:

Ezekiel 18:20 The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself.

Jeremiah 29:32 (and others with similar sentiments) therefore thus says the LORD, “Behold, I am about to punish Shemaiah the Nehelamite and his descendants; he will not have anyone living among this people, and he will not see the good that I am about to do to My people,” declares the LORD, “because he has preached rebellion against the LORD.”"’

So which is it, He doesn’t punish people for other peoples sins or He does? Clearly he does; because I didn’t have anything to do with Adam’s actions yet I am conceived in sin. It’s a hard thing to wrap my head around to be sure.
 

Thanks for this Topic, it is a good one.​

Suffering is hard to understand, the WHY of it. Why do people get born into suffering, including genetic errors, and so forth.

I believe that God knew those in one way or another prior to their birth into suffering into this world, and these spirits took apon themselves a spirit body, and then born into a crippled human body. This is a very complex issue that can only be solved by our Love of other who are suffering, and of helping these people.

When able bodied people help those in need, having a great deal of love, this helps both the needs of the handicapped and helps the caregivers to grow in Spirit and Love. The large Natural Disasters do help to get many people to put down their pens and calculators, and come out to help with resue and cleanup, so these things can help many people to grow in Spirit and Love.

This is a Topic I learned a great deal in the study of Near Death Experiences for many years, since the 1980’s, that all the suffering is for a reason, sometimes beyond our understanding, but the Suffering including Natural Disasters are potentially for growth in Spirit and Love, and Compassion of others, so it does have a purpose.

Now when we obtained a Spirit Body and a Physical Body, we are now effected by Other’s Sin, and of our own Sin, while in a human body, and as a result our illnesses can end our lives early, but any unforgiven sin, like ones that cannot be forgiven, these Sins can cause a Second Death, which is both a casting out from God’s presence, and the Loss of the Spirit Body(2nd Death), in the Lake of Fire, at the time of the Final Judgement.( This is my best guess as to what I’ve learned)
 
water said:
Do you, as non-Catholic, believe that our physical sufferings can be as the result of our sins? Note: this does not imply that every sickness is related to your sins.

PS: Catholics are also encouraged to answer.

Thanks.
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some illness and evil consequences are the direct result of sin (STDs following sexual sin, for instance), some are long term results of habitual sin (weakening of the will, lack of self-discipline etc.) which can make it hard to form healthy habits for our bodies as well as for our souls. For instance a person who cannot practice self-denial in sexual matters, may also for that reason have difficulty with self-denial in the area of healthy diet, drugs etc, which will have an eventual effect on physical health. Do I believe illness is inflicted by God as a direct punishment for sin, no I do not, and no I don’t believe it is Catholic teaching. God never wills evil for anyone. He does, however, will that every evil encountered by a person on this earth be used and transformed by the person’s cooperation with His Grace, for that person’s spiritual good.
 
I agree with Geo…

As he passed by he saw a man blind from birth.

His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”

Jesus answered, "Neither he nor his parents sinned; **it is so that the works of God might be made visible through him. **
 
could any of us here provide me the verse where Jesus healed someone and said “Your sin is forgiven”? - I want to see what Jesus healed.

Thank you.
 
(RSVCE) The Gospel According to ST. MATTHEW 9:1 And getting into a boat he crossed over and came to his own city. [sup]2[/sup] And behold, they brought to him a paralytic, lying on his bed; and when Jesus saw their faith he said to the paralytic, “Take heart, my son; your sins are forgiven.” [sup]3[/sup] And behold, some of the scribes said to themselves, “This man is blaspheming.” [sup]4[/sup] But Jesus, knowing their thoughts, said, “Why do you think evil in your hearts? [sup]5[/sup] For which is easier, to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, 'Rise and walk? [sup]6[/sup] But that you may know that the Son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins”–he then said to the paralytic–“Rise, take up your bed and go home.” [sup]7[/sup] And he rose and went home. [sup]8[/sup] When the crowds saw it, they were afraid, and they glorified God, who had given such authority to men.
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Cf. Mark 2:1-11 and Luke 5:18-25. Luke’s account is the story of them lowering the guy down through the roof.
 
water said:
Do you, as non-Catholic, believe that our physical sufferings can be as the result of our sins? Note: this does not imply that every sickness is related to your sins.
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of course. bad deeds can be quite stressful. and stress leads to a variety of ailments.
 
b_justb said:
Cf. Mark 2:1-11 and Luke 5:18-25. Luke’s account is the story of them lowering the guy down through the roof.
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thank you, justb. Is there anywhere in the Bible that Jesus healed people who got a disease from birth and Jesus told them that their sins were forgiven?
 
water said:
thank you, justb. Is there anywhere in the Bible that Jesus healed people who got a disease from birth and Jesus told them that their sins were forgiven?
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Check John 9, the whole chapter. That’s the mud in the eyes of the blind man from birth and then go wash yourself story, but no mention of forgiveness of sins there.

Matthew 12:10-15 is the healing of the withered hand story, but again I don’t see the forgiveness thing there either.

The end of Mark 7 is the fingers in the ears of the deaf guy story, but again no mention of forgiveness. I think the one I ref’d below is the only one where it is specifically said by Christ.
 
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