Physically capable priest celebrant sat while EMHC's distributed Communion

[Mrs_Sally]

If he really wasn’t incapacitated, then he should have been distributing the Eucharist. However, as someone else mentioned, it’s really impossible to judge whether someone is incapacitated or not just from looking. I would have gone up to him afterward and politely asked, “Father, is everything all right today? I noticed that you did not distribute Communion at Mass. I hope you are in good health, and if not, I will remember you in prayer” or something to that effect.

Excellent response. You cannot know just by looking at someone whether or not they are incapacitated or under the weather. In charity, we have to assume the best. A question like the one above will tell you if the priest were ill.

It won’t tell you if there is something else going on with the EMHC in your parish. Unless you are also an EMHC and part of the training they receive, you probably won’t be told what directions they are receiving from the pastor about when and how many should be used.

 

[anp1215]

Excellent response. You cannot know just by looking at someone whether or not they are incapacitated or under the weather. In charity, we have to assume the best. A question like the one above will tell you if the priest were ill.

It won’t tell you if there is something else going on with the EMHC in your parish. Unless you are also an EMHC and part of the training they receive, you probably won’t be told what directions they are receiving from the pastor about when and how many should be used.

Yes this is true. Thank you.

 

[EasterJoy]

“If your brother sins [against you], go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother. If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that ‘every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church. If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector. Amen, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Again, [amen,] I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything for which they are to pray, it shall be granted to them by my heavenly Father. For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.” Matt. 18:15-20

Talk to the priest directly before you drag anyone else into it. You cannot know the entire situation without doing so, and you do not want to be guilty of rash judgement. Besides, he deserves that you discuss any wrongs he has committed against you with him directly before assembling any consensus against him. That is the way the Lord directed you to do it.

Approach him respectfully, because the Lord has put him in authority over you. Besides, he has faculties in your diocese because the bishop is satisfied that he knows and has been keeping up on the liturgical rules. Show respect to his superior knowledge, as well, then. Speak to him as you would want a student to speak to their professor, as a son or daughter to a father, for he has been placed as a father over you.

If leave him still convinced that he is in the wrong, and the question is of sufficient gravity, you can ask the vicar of clergy for your diocese about the question. If you do not leave him convinced that the matter is settled, you can ask the bishop directly. If the bishop will not hear you or cannot convince you, or if they do not listen to a complaint from a single person, then you can consult with fellow parishioners, in order to assemble the required quorum needed in order for a question to be taken seriously. Again: do not forget the position the Lord has given them, and approach them in a humble fashion, ready to learn from them. Do not leave yourself in a postion of being “invincibly ignorant” (so to speak) of the true liturgical requirements, the authority over which God has given to the successors of the Apostles.

If it is a question of a truly serious nature and there is no redress at the diocesan level, you can appeal to Rome directly. The division of the curia to contact is the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments. If Rome won’t hear you, then you have no recourse but to commend the matter to Heaven, content in knowing that you have been invincibly ignorant of the liturgy in good faith or that you have done your duty.

Do all of this so that your conscience may be clear of the charge of having been a capital pain to your superiors when you were in the wrong after all was said in done. Be as persistent as conscience requires, but always be circumspect about the humility with which you persist. Pray to the Doctors of the Church to be your particular guides and intercessors, particularly St. Teresa of Avila and St. Catherine of Sienna, as neither were priests and both had to endure some persecution for her efforts at reform.

I think that if the priest apparently will not listen to you when you approach him, and yet does not repeat the fault in the future, let it go. Provided that he repents of the problem, the less you act as if he is any need of oversight from you or any others of those over whom he has oversight, the better.

 

[TheMc]

Yes we all know this.

We also are aware that the short hand of eucharistic minister is used for EMHC but are also aware that no one is claiming that they can consecrate the Eucharist when they use this term.

But the church has asked us to call them by their correct name, EMHC, not eucharistic minister.

 

[raaucoin]

Very similar thing happened in a neighboring parish( I go their for mass in a.m.) I was rather upset. Then within 2 weeks the priest was hospitalized and shortly after he died from a rare blood disease. He didn’t look any different than usual, but turns out he was actually very weak.

 

[tbtcom1213]

Thank you all for your responses and insights especially the reference from Redemptionis Sacramentum.

I apologize if I was uncharitable against the priest celebrant and the EMHCs. I was not sexist in saying that all the EMHCs at Mass were female. I just made a note of observation. I also acknowledge that EMHCs are very important in certain parishes, cathedrals and other settings where the distribution of Holy Communion might be unduly prolonged if it weren’t for these servants of the altar.

I will remember to ask the priest to clarify what happened the next time I see him. The priest is a great homilist, is in touch with many parishioners and encourages vocations as well as participation in various parish ministries.

I should have mentioned that *my theory *was he sat out of distributing the Blessed Sacrament because 8 EMHCs presented themselves instead of the usual seven. At Masses where the Precious Blood is received we have 8 instead of 6 ministers the priest celebrant inclusive.

In faith, hope and charity,

-tbtcom1213

 

[EasterJoy]

Thank you all for your responses and insights especially the reference from Redemptionis Sacramentum.

I apologize if I was uncharitable against the priest celebrant and the EMHCs. I was not sexist in saying that all the EMHCs at Mass were female. I just made a note of observation. I also acknowledge that EMHCs are very important in certain parishes, cathedrals and other settings where the distribution of Holy Communion might be unduly prolonged if it weren’t for these servants of the altar.

I will remember to ask the priest to clarify what happened the next time I see him. The priest is a great homilist, is in touch with many parishioners and encourages vocations as well as participation in various parish ministries.

I should have mentioned that *my theory *was he sat out of distributing the Blessed Sacrament because 8 EMHCs presented themselves instead of the usual seven. At Masses where the Precious Blood is received we have 8 instead of 6 ministers the priest celebrant inclusive.

In faith, hope and charity,

-tbtcom1213

I just hope he is OK. It would not be good if he were to have committed an error, but it would be worse if he had a serious illness.

A hospital visit could be behind all of this, too. Perhaps at some time during Mass he became afraid he was not feeling good, and knew himself to have been in contact with someone who had a very serious communicable disease. It would be the greatest relief to find he was OK after all, but had felt compelled at the time to err on the side of safety.

 

[Julia_Mae]

Thank you all for your responses and insights especially the reference from Redemptionis Sacramentum.

I apologize if I was uncharitable against the priest celebrant and the EMHCs. I was not sexist in saying that all the EMHCs at Mass were female. I just made a note of observation.

I’d like to say something not meant at all as criticism: if all of them had been men, I doubt you would have mentioned it.

I was reading about the state of the Church in China the other day and thinking how wonderful it is to be in a place where we can gather and receive Christ without anyone coming in and shooting us. God bless all the priests who live for us and die for us to serve Our Lord.

 

[EasterJoy]

I’d like to say something not meant at all as criticism: if all of them had been men, I doubt you would have mentioned it.

Ironic, if true, because in my limited experience it would be the more unusual situation. Still totally irrelevant, but unusual.

 

[Julia_Mae]

Ironic, if true, because in my limited experience it would be the more unusual situation. .

See, that what I was thinking! Where would you ever see eight men actually up there? Then I decided I was being a bit of a sexist.

There’s always Easter!

 

[ClayPots47]

However, Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion can only distrubute if there are no other priests, deacons, or instituted acolytes, and there is a great need.

Yes they can and should in preference to anyone else. Eucharistic ministers are bishops and priests. They are also ordinary ministers of Holy Communion as are deacons. Bishops, priests and deacons are the ministers who should distribute Holy Communion. If there is not a sufficient number of them to distribute Holy Communion in a reasonable time then laypersons designated as extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion (the only correct title for them) may distribute Holy Communion too. First among these should be any acolytes (the properly instituted ministers not altar servers) present.

Instituted acolytes are also EMHC; and there doesn’t appear to be any pecking order that says they should be used before delegated lay people, just that they are formally instituted, as opposed to simply delegated. Per Redemptionis Sacramentum:

[155.] In addition to the ordinary ministers there is the formally instituted acolyte, who by virtue of his institution is an extraordinary minister of Holy Communion even outside the celebration of Mass.If, moreover, reasons of real necessity prompt it, another lay member of Christ’s faithful may also be delegated by the diocesan Bishop, in accordance with the norm of law,[256] for one occasion or for a specified time, and an appropriate formula of blessing may be used for the occasion…[156.] This function is to be understood strictly according to the name by which it is known, that is to say, that of extraordinary minister of Holy Communion…

 

[FatHead]

Instituted acolytes are also EMHC; and there doesn’t appear to be any pecking order that says they should be used before delegated lay people, just that they are formally instituted, as opposed to simply delegated. Per Redemptionis Sacramentum:

actually they should always be used before “regular” EMHCs. Im not sure where the document is, but ill look for it.

Edit: actually, look more carefully at RS 155, with my [fr z type commentary]

[before # 155, it says that ordinary ministers have the first place before EMHCs.]
155. [And if theres not enough ordinary ministers…] In addition to the ordinary ministers there is the formally instituted acolyte, who by virtue of his institution is an extraordinary minister of Holy Communion even outside the celebration of Mass.

**[And if theres not enough ordinary ministers and not enough acolytes…]**If, moreover, reasons of real necessity prompt it, another lay member of Christ’s faithful may also be delegated by the diocesan Bishop, in accordance with the norm of law,

this seems pretty clear to me.

 

[Matthew_Holford]

Instituted acolytes are also EMHC; and there doesn’t appear to be any pecking order that says they should be used before delegated lay people, just that they are formally instituted, as opposed to simply delegated. Per Redemptionis Sacramentum:

I think that RS states otherwise. I have highlighted the part where I believe it says other laypersons may be used after the ordinary ministers and acolytes.

In addition to the ordinary ministers there is the formally instituted acolyte, who by virtue of his institution is an extraordinary minister of Holy Communion even outside the celebration of Mass.*** If, moreover, reasons of real necessity prompt it, another*** lay member of Christ’s faithful may also be delegated by the diocesan Bishop …

I believe that the “pecking” order which you mention would therefore be, basically:

1. 
   *]Ordinary Ministers of Holy Communion: bishops, priests, and deacons;
   *]Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion: acolytes;
   *]Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion: others.

 

[FatHead]

I think that RS states otherwise. I have highlighted the part where I believe it says other laypersons may be used after the ordinary ministers and acolytes.

I believe that the “pecking” order which you mention would therefore be, basically:

1. 
   *]Ordinary Ministers of Holy Communion: bishops, priests, and deacons;
   *]Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion: acolytes;
   *]Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion: others.

1. 
   I cant find it in RS right now, but wouldnt the “others” be split into to categories: “appointed” EMHCs and “one-time-appointed” emhcs?

 

[Matthew_Holford]

I cant find it in RS right now, but wouldnt the “others” be split into to categories: “appointed” EMHCs and “one-time-appointed” emhcs?

There is provision to commission EMHCs for a defined period and to appoint ad hoc EMHCs for a particular occasion. I don’t think RS goes into such detail about EMHCs though.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

This is interesting but how many parishes actually have instituted acolytes?