Pianist playing pipe organ?

[TigerKitty]

One last thought…

Now that I have been moving around these last few years and attending many different churches…Nothing drives me more batty than being subjected to “organ playing” by an “organist” who has been in the position for years and years and years. And they continue to be in the position because why? Because they’ve been there for years and years and years.

I once was in a position where I actually had the time to step in and play at a parish for Saturday’s, where there was one of these organists. And I offered, and was rebuffed, because so-and-so always plays for all the masses every weekend, and they would feel bad, and, well, they were also the choir director’s spouse.

It drove me nuts to listen the the one-foot um-pah-pah pedal line and the eternal marcato melody line - and the SAME registration was used through the entire mass, absolutely no variation. I never asked, but there is not much doubt in my mind, that this organist was really a pianist who did not make the full transition to organist.

 

[TheMc]

It drove me nuts to listen the the one-foot um-pah-pah pedal line and the eternal marcato melody line - and the SAME registration was used through the entire mass, absolutely no variation. I never asked, but there is not much doubt in my mind, that this organist was really a pianist who did not make the full transition to organist.

Using the same registration really bugs me too! It’s not that hard, when you have those toe-things above the petals. I don’t know a ton about organ, but I certainly would change up the registration at least a little bit!

 

[Gertabelle]

I had been playing the piano for about 8 years when I became a postulant in a Benedictine monastery. I was assigned to play the organ as soon as I understood the order of each section of the Divine Office.
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Perhaps it was the power of obedience to my prioress, but I was able to manage somehow.

The Divine Office was good training, just melodies on the right hand, chords on the left, and repetitive bass sequence in the feet. Playing the Divine Office became my hours of practice everyday.

Eventually I was able to play hymns for mass. Honestly, though, playing the hymns nearly drove me to apoplexy.

The only time I play the organ now (some 22 years since leaving during my novitiate) is for Christmas – “O Come All Ye Faithful” and “Joy to the World” are pretty simple hymns on the organ.

Still, as a pianist, when I play the organ, it is very, very biblical – my right hand (and foot) doesn’t know what my left hand (and foot) is doing!



Way to go, Cat, for taking this on. You rock!!

Gertie

 

[TheMc]

Still, as a pianist, when I play the organ, it is very, very biblical – my right hand (and foot) doesn’t know what my left hand (and foot) is doing!

LOL!

 

[Sarabande]

One last thought…

Now that I have been moving around these last few years and attending many different churches…Nothing drives me more batty than being subjected to “organ playing” by an “organist” who has been in the position for years and years and years. And they continue to be in the position because why? Because they’ve been there for years and years and years.

I once was in a position where I actually had the time to step in and play at a parish for Saturday’s, where there was one of these organists. And I offered, and was rebuffed, because so-and-so always plays for all the masses every weekend, and they would feel bad, and, well, they were also the choir director’s spouse.

It drove me nuts to listen the the one-foot um-pah-pah pedal line and the eternal marcato melody line - and the SAME registration was used through the entire mass, absolutely no variation. I never asked, but there is not much doubt in my mind, that this organist was really a pianist who did not make the full transition to organist.

I’m happy you brought this up, because I think it is this kind of “organ playing” which can cause any potential organist or just people in general to be turned off to organ. I see this just from working with bridal couples. Some who have only had the experience of their home parish organ or organist will tell me how much they hate the sound of the organ, but then when I have them come to a mass where I sing or have them listen to samples of organ music, they are amazed at how beautiful the organ can sound. So, if they can and with my assistance, will hire a competent organist.

I realize that often times, the parish is trying to save money, cut corners or because this person is the only person that is willing to do it, but in the end they are shooting themselves in the foot because it will not encourage a new generation of organists when all they continue to hear are people like you describe. Along with that, are pastors or music directors forcing organists to play repertoire that is not suitable for the organ. It just makes the organ sound bad, like having a classical singer perform a P&W song like “Your Grace is Enough” or “Shout to the Lord” or someone who is more comfortable singing P&W perform something like the Franck “Panis Angelicus” or Schubert “Ave Maria”.

Add: That said, no one is expecting genius playing from every organist. Competent playing would be great - someone who understood registrations and could make a nice sound or a great sound. And good musicianship in general.

 

[Spirithound]

I think perfection or nothing is a bad attitude. It’s like saying if you have a bunch of bad singers in your church, you shouldn’t sing at all.

hmmm…I don’t know… Those two seem rather different to me. A bad instrument is much more offensive than a bad singer (IMO…). Perhaps it’s the fact that everybody sings and somehow it evens out… But for an organ, or a keyboard, or a piano, there is definitely a threshold a player ought to attain before pulling out the talent. I’m not saying the threshold is very high, but I still remember the day Father pulled me into the sacristy after my keyboard rendition of the Battle Hymn of the Republic…

 

[TheMc]

It just makes the organ sound bad, like having a classical singer perform a P&W song like “Your Grace is Enough” or “Shout to the Lord” or someone who is more comfortable singing P&W perform something like the Franck “Panis Angelicus” or Schubert “Ave Maria”.

Good point. Perhaps many don’t like “traditional” music because they rarely hear it.

 

[Sarabande]

hmmm…I don’t know… Those two seem rather different to me. A bad instrument is much more offensive than a bad singer (IMO…). Perhaps it’s the fact that everybody sings and somehow it evens out… But for an organ, or a keyboard, or a piano, there is definitely a threshold a player ought to attain before pulling out the talent. I’m not saying the threshold is very high, but I still remember the day Father pulled me into the sacristy after my keyboard rendition of the Battle Hymn of the Republic…

Haha! Yes, I agree with you in regards to playing an instrument, but I will say a bad singer who is cantoring is pretty hard to handle. It tends to make people not sing at all in my experience. Bad singing in congregations is a different story… like you say, everyone singing kind of evens it all out. But when you have a person singing right into the mic, it’s pretty tough on the ears. Then couple that with a bad instrumentalist and…:

 

[Sarabande]

Good point. Perhaps many don’t like “traditional” music because they rarely hear it.

Or they rarely hear it sung/played well. My forte is classical and traditional sacred/religious repertoire. As in my example I gave with people being amazed with how beautiful an organ can sound, I also receive the same reaction when they hear a “traditional” or “classical” piece of vocal music sung well. It’s rep that they may have heard many times in their own parishes, but never really heard it done well. When helping couples choose music for their nuptial mass, I am sometimes surprised by what they choose. They tell you what kind of music they like and want. We give them little vocal samples (I’ll sing a page or so of certain pieces). Some with what they say they want like “You Are Mine” and then some that is more classical/traditional like the “Laudate Dominum” or a more traditional hymn and they will gravitate to the Laudate or the hymn. It’s actually quite interesting to me when I observe it happening.

 

[TigerKitty]

Sarabande, I totally agree with you. A traditional/classical piece done sloppily versus the same piece done well are like night and day. People who are not musical or don’t know what the piece is supposed to sound like don’t know. In fact, I was so taken aback by the poor music at a family member’s funeral, I made my husband PROMISE me that if anything happens to me, he’ll hire professionals.

 

[Cat]

Well, I finished the week of pipe organ seminar today.

I had a great time, and I highly recommend this activity to other pianists. If you need more info, PM me and I’ll give you the information.

The professors were such good teachers and I learned so much from them. The field trips were delightful. The concerts were inspiring.

I made so many friends! We really had fun together. It was kind of like being in college again, but without all the drunkenness.

My private lessons were quite discouraging, although my teacher was a sweetie and very helpful.

My practice sessions were enjoyable, because I truly do love listening to the organ, and when I stuck with simple hymns with just two things (either two hands, or one hand and the pedals), I could kind of play them without too many mistakes or hesitations. I did a pretty good job on “Christ the Lord is Risen Today.” (There were only two pedals in it, so I could hold my feet over the two pedals, but sometimes I would forget to press the pedal and use my left hand instead. Frustrating.)

Anyway, I think it will take quite a few months of regular practice to train my muscles and eyes to the point where I will be able to play anything in Mass. And even then, whatever I play will be very simple. No Bach or Buxtehude. I honestly can’t see ever getting to a point where I’ll be able to play these composers on the organ. Maybe if we win the lottery and I don’t have to work, so that I could spend several hours a day practicing. But not on a few hours a day a few days a week.

At this point, I plan to book a teacher for private lessons, IF I can get permission to practice on the organ in my parish, and IF I can find the time to practice. Also, I hope that nothing will happen to my job, because if it does, I probably won’t have the money for private lessons.

A lot of ifs.

But I’m glad I went. I now know what a rohrflute and a liebliche gedeckt and a Nazard are, and what the numbers means (8, 16, 4, 2, etc.–they’re not football plays!). At the Faculty Recital, I was able to describe the two different kinds of pipes to a couple of elderly ladies who asked, and I was able to tell them what the different keyboards are for.

And I have a certificate! Yay! Me so smart!

Seriously, I do recommend this experience.

 

[TheMc]

and I was able to tell them what the different keyboards are for.

So… what are they for?

 

[The_Curt_Jester]

So… what are they for?

They’re meant to be sources of frustration. People are supposed to wonder how a person with only two hands can play three keyboards at once (and yes, it IS possible).

 

[Cat]

So… what are they for?

You can set each manual (keyboard) to different registrations using the different stops. This means that your piece can sound like a whole orchestra is playing it.

E.g., if you’re playing Joyful Joyful We Adore Thee, and the melody is in the right hand, you can set the Great (the name of one of the manuals) to a nice oboe (or whatever–this is just an exapmle) so that the melody will stand out, and then set the Swell (another name for another manual) to a quieter flute setting (so it won’t drown out the melody), and then the Choir (another name for a third manual) to a trumpet sound, and at the end of each verse, move on up to the Choir and play a five note trumpet fanfare.

(The Pedals have their stops, or settings, also.)

According to our professor, “registration” (choosing the best combination of stops) is both an art and a science.

I had fun playing with my little pieces and trying different stops. One basic principle is to not drown out the melody.

 

[The_Curt_Jester]

Something I heard awhile back for remembering the different names of the manuals…

I’m positiv that the choir sounds great. They must swell with pride.

 

[TheMc]

You can set each manual (keyboard) to different registrations using the different stops. This means that your piece can sound like a whole orchestra is playing it.

E.g., if you’re playing Joyful Joyful We Adore Thee, and the melody is in the right hand, you can set the Great (the name of one of the manuals) to a nice oboe (or whatever–this is just an exapmle) so that the melody will stand out, and then set the Swell (another name for another manual) to a quieter flute setting (so it won’t drown out the melody), and then the Choir (another name for a third manual) to a trumpet sound, and at the end of each verse, move on up to the Choir and play a five note trumpet fanfare.

(The Pedals have their stops, or settings, also.)

According to our professor, “registration” (choosing the best combination of stops) is both an art and a science.

I had fun playing with my little pieces and trying different stops. One basic principle is to not drown out the melody.

I know some about the organ, and the stops, but never understood everything about the keyboards. So you are saying that to “get to” certain stops, you have to use a certain keyboard (ie, any specific stop is linked to one keyboard only)?

 

[The_Curt_Jester]

I know some about the organ, and the stops, but never understood everything about the keyboards. So you are saying that to “get to” certain stops, you have to use a certain keyboard (ie, any specific stop is linked to one keyboard only)?

There’s a set of stops for each keyboard. For instance, the Swell manual will have its own set of stops. On the organ I play, this manual can ONLY play those sounds. However, those sounds can be transferred to the Choir and Great manuals. The Choir manual is limited to its own set of sounds, plus what can be played on the Swell. The Great can play everything (except the pedal stops!). Hope that makes sense.

 

[TheMc]

There’s a set of stops for each keyboard. For instance, the Swell manual will have its own set of stops. On the organ I play, this manual can ONLY play those sounds. However, those sounds can be transferred to the Choir and Great manuals. The Choir manual is limited to its own set of sounds, plus what can be played on the Swell. The Great can play everything (except the pedal stops!). Hope that makes sense.

Ok, that’s what I thought. I forgot to mention about linking the manuals.

 

[Cavaille-Coll]

Unfortunately the organ is a dying instrument. There are still young budding organists out there, but there are way too many organs and too few organists. Quite a few Anglican churches - some in the US but mostly in the UK - still have great organs and great organists. However, many other churches do not. The sad part is that organs are often being replaced by pop music and praise bands. There’s really nothing like the majesty of well played organ music in church.

I wish we had your situation of too many organs and not enough organists. Here in the Pacific Northwest of the USA, many churches have no organs at all, and most rural churches that do have an organ have small “home” organs (i.e. Hammond, Baldwin, Lowrey) on which classical repertoire cannot be played. Without at least two 61-key manuals and a full pedalboard, organ music cannot be played.

The organ is a dying instrument because it’s being killed. The majority of American parishes use hymnals from Oregon Catholic Press, which does not produce organ arrangements - only “keyboard.” What’s more, the musical style of much of their contemporary (if the 70’s can still be considered as such) material is not suitable for organ. It was written specifically for the tunings and rhythmic characteristics of guitars. For years, OCP’s disposable hymnals have been steadily paring away the traditional (organ-oriented) hymns in favor of more contemporary ones, 95% of which are written for guitar and piano. Hymnals from GIA often have good organ arrangements, but they don’t command the market share of OCP, and both have serious theological issues.

Many American congregations have simply not been exposed to well-played organ music as one might find in a large Anglican congregation in the US or the UK. Smaller parishes cannot afford to hire an organist when their ten-piece volunteer “folk group” would demand equal pay. Churches that do hire organists often hire Anglican (Episcopalian) or Presbyterian organists, whose churches still maintain a strong tradition of organ music.

 

[elgar]

The organ is a dying instrument because it’s being killed. The majority of American parishes use hymnals from Oregon Catholic Press, which does not produce organ arrangements - only “keyboard.” What’s more, the musical style of much of their contemporary (if the 70’s can still be considered as such) material is not suitable for organ. It was written specifically for the tunings and rhythmic characteristics of guitars. For years, OCP’s disposable hymnals have been steadily paring away the traditional (organ-oriented) hymns in favor of more contemporary ones, 95% of which are written for guitar and piano. Hymnals from GIA often have good organ arrangements, but they don’t command the market share of OCP, and both have serious theological issues.

**Many American congregations have simply not been exposed to well-played organ music **as one might find in a large Anglican congregation in the US or the UK. Smaller parishes cannot afford to hire an organist when their ten-piece volunteer “folk group” would demand equal pay. Churches that do hire organists often hire Anglican (Episcopalian) or Presbyterian organists, whose churches still maintain a strong tradition of organ music.

I agree with your astute assessments. Those in power continue to push the same old drivel and resources. It’s no wonder Catholics don’t/won’t sing.